Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Nov 5, 2017 15:14:55 GMT -5
And as I thought, people are blowing this movie up and leaving me a bit in the wind. If I were to compare this movie with any other superhero film it would be Tim Burton's Batman, where the visuals are incredible, but the story hardly exists, bringing about random shenanigans that just look really cool. And the fact that just about every review praises the visuals, the action, the humor, the Hulk, ECT...all while dropping what this movie is actually about, honestly this tells me a lot. It's cool people had fun with this movie, I love shallow movies too, but the popularity of this one I just can't get behind.
I loved the opening between Thor and Surtur, which did what this movie did best, pretty visuals and hardcore action. After that the movie lost me fairly fast. Thor smacks Loki around to prove he isn't Odin, Doctor Strange points out real Odin, Odin says when he dies Hela comes back, Odin dies (boy did they show up just in time for this), and Hela comes back. This movie just kinda barreled through forty plot points and didn't seem to give a crap about any of them. After that Hela pushes Thor and Loki out of the Bifrost, assumes them dead, while two of the Warriors Three are killed off instantly with insultingly unheroic deaths. Hogan survives to go out fighting, but they all should have went with the battle cry of "For Asgard!"
I find myself thankful Jaime Alexander wasn't able to return as Sif due to her commitments to Blindspot otherwise they would have killed her too. I am fairly confident that Hogan's big fight was supposed to be hers, but now I can at least pretend she's out fighting somewhere else.
I get that I'm one of the seemingly few people who have thought of the Thor movies as MCU delights so far. The original was my favorite of the series until Civil War came out, and while The Dark World was a step back, I thought it was a solidly enjoyable, if goofier, movie that unfortunately doubled down on some of the things that less people liked about the first than Marvel seemed to think. There's not Natalie Portman or Kat Dennings, and I'm sure the average nerd is going to scream "THAT ALONE MAKES RAGNAROK THE BEST," but honestly the heart of Portman was part of the appeal for me while the humor of Jennings, while not great, was at the very least funnier than some of the inconsistent tonal humor in Ragnarok. Leaving those two behind doesn't really bother me, what bothers me is that the film abandons the previous two by screaming "ABANDON SHIP" randomly and jumping overboard because it seemingly doesn't want to be a part of the franchise that it's a sequel to.
Case in point, I'm pretty sure director Taika Watiti had no interest in making a Thor movie and really had his heart on making a Planet Hulk movie, but legal woes from Universal prevented him from doing so and he settled on this instead. For a movie called Ragnarok the film almost B-storylines its title story in favor of Thor and Loki screwing about on Sakaar,. It brushes through the Asgard story every chance it can get to get back to what should have been a subplot. While Thor's desperation to get home is probably a strong story in theory, the movie diverts itself way too far from it to the point where I'm starting to question what the real storyline was supposed to be.
A lot of this were to be forgivable if the movie were nearly as funny as it thinks it is. I'm hearing reports of audiences roaring with laughter during this movie, and while a few of the jokes landed, my audience was pretty silent throughout the film. Maybe if the audience was more into it I would have drifted along, but I started noting flat lines of humor that could have easily been cut to improve pacing or just to keep scenes from getting awkward (Thor's godawful and overly long story about Loki turning into a snake topping the list). I presonally laughed maybe three times during the film, and groaned a heck of a lot more than that. To an extent this movie is not all that dissimilar an experience to Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, only it's more appealing to look at. That and instead of "the enemy's scrotum" it has "the devil's anus." I can guarantee you Michael Bay is screaming at the screen "Hey! How come I get lynched for gags like these but these Marvel guys get a free pass?!"
But that visually appealing aspect is where Ragnarok works its best. When it shuts its trap and goes for the action the movie rocks the house. The cinematography is gorgeous, the action is spectacular, and the Valkyrie flashback sequence is quite possibly the most beautiful visual I've seen this year. When the movie was Ragnarok'n'rollin' I was enjoying this movie, but when I walked out of the theater I was more troubled by what didn't work. And it's going to take more than playing "The Immigrant Song" to make me forget what was annoying me about this movie.
MCU Ranking:
1. Captain America: Civil War 2. Thor 3. The Incredible Hulk 4. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 5. Doctor Strange 6. Iron Man 7. Avengers: Age of Ultron 8. Captain America: The First Avenger 9. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 10. Thor: The Dark World 11. Iron Man 3 12. The Avengers 13. Spider-Man: Homecoming 14. Guardians of the Galaxy 15. Ant-Man 16. Thor: Ragnarok 17. Iron Man 2
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Nov 17, 2017 16:17:19 GMT -5
So stop me if you've heard this one: a bad guy from outer space with a horned helmet seeks out a magic cube (or cubes) on Earth and wishes to conquer/destroy it for his big boss in the sky. Meanwhile the world's superheroes must put aside their egos and work together to stop him.
So...yeah...Justice League...the culmination of the introduction films of the "DC Extended Universe." And probably culmination in more ways than one. Culmination in bringing the heroes together, and culmination in that it feels like it's the only possible result in learning the wrong lessons from your mistakes. Man of Steel was determined to ride on the good will of the Dark Knight trilogy and differentiate from Marvel's light tone, but did so with a character that wasn't suited for it. But I actually blame the Green Lantern movie for this, because that film felt like it wanted so badly to be a Marvel film without realizing why they worked. But for the most part Man of Steel worked more often than it didn't, it was just polarizing in how it treated the character. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice doubled down on the dreariness, and while it had some interesting ideas, it was just a chore to watch with a villain that just didn't work. Suicide Squad attempted to lighten things up, but was hastily re-edited in the post-Guardians of the Galaxy market and came out a complete mess that was mildly amusing the first time around, but not so much on repeat viewings. The long overdue Wonder Woman film came out of this unscathed somehow, possibly because it was just turning out so good that the executives left it alone. But it seems to be the enigma in this puzzling franchise.
After Wonder Woman I had hope for Justice League. That was a film that knew it's audience and even knew how to expand beyond it. If Justice League could build upon that then there was hope for the franchise. But my hopes were dashed when reports were coming in that executives put their foot down on the running time being two hours or less, which echoes of disasters of past. It made no sense to me why they would do this when their highest grossing film domestically ran 140 minutes and highest grossing worldwide ran past 150. And why do this to this particular film, which needed to juggle so many characters, half of which were newly introduced, while a similar film like The Avengers took the time to breathe with 140 (and made a lot of money doing so). I'm sorry, but the mandate that shorter runtimes equals more showings equals more cash is an equation that doesn't work with this one.
And watching the movie, it feels it. It's rushed, shortchanged, a bit confusing, and over before you even have an impression of it.
How much of this has to do with Zack Snyder stepping down and handing the reigns to Avengers director Joss Whedon in post production, I'm not sure. I was always a little scared that their two styles wouldn't mesh, and in the end...they don't. Mildly softening the blow is that Snyder's stylings are toned down for this movie, though it's often clear which scenes Whedon had a hand in (and I like Whedon, but Batman is not a character that should be saying his trademark dialogue).
Here's what I can't figure out though, is the fact that this movie feels less like Snyder a byproduct of him not completing it, or was the film always like this and his heart just wasn't in it due to suits telling him what he can or can't do?
That's what bugs me about this movie, it doesn't have a heart. It feels like a product made by a studio, much like X-Men: The Last Stand or Iron Man 2. Some of these can be better than others, but the first outing of arguably the greatest team in the history of superheroes is not where we should be feeling this. I want there to be a love for these characters and a willingness to let them charm the audience. The passion of the actors comes through, but the film itself just feels so damn "point and shoot."
And Steppinwolf. Whew boy, does this guy suck. He's a rock that pushes people down. The League just smacks him around a bit until he shoots himself in the foot.
Danny Elfman does his best to give the film gusto, and tries his best to make it feel like a passion project for everyone involved. But as lifeless as the filmmaking is I find myself wishing he pushed a little more for this nostagia tone he's going for. He goes the full nine yards with his old Batman theme (which still rocks), but cranking out more of John William's Superman and Hans Zimmer's Wonder Woman theme might do wonders. Also maybe dust off his old Flash theme for good measure.
That said, I was never bored. The superheroics are fun. It's just the movie I was afraid it was going to be from all the behind the scenes drama. But it might be the best possible version of that. What is a real headscratcher for me is that I genuinely can't tell if I liked this movie better than Batman v Superman or not. Batman v Superman felt like the people making it were putting their blood, sweat, and tears in it. Justice League gets the edge in having a slightly better plot structure leading to a stronger third act. Maybe if an extended cut gave me a better feel for this movie then I'd know for sure, but it blows that the "extended" portion of the DCEU name seems to mean "the extended cut sucks less." I kinda want the version that sucks less right now.
Two things are for sure: Wonder Woman is clearly the best and Suicide Squad is clearly the worst.
|
|
|
Post by Afgncaap5 on Nov 29, 2017 13:37:07 GMT -5
I enjoyed Justice League. I won't say it was a good movie, but I had a lot of fun while watching it. I have some concerns that The Flash and Cyborg are going to be the film-universe's version of Booster Gold and Blue Beetle in some ways, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Having said that: I really dislike most of Zack Snyder's superhero movies. I don't think the guy believes in heroism. This movie feels better than what I usually get from him, though, and I'd rather watch this movie again than Man Of Steel, Suicide Squad, or Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.
I've said it before, but it bears repeating: DC shouldn't focus on Darkseid. It doesn't matter if Darkseid is more powerful or evil than Thanos (who's on a power level more akin to Metron, if Metron had serious anger-management issues and hit the gym a lot), what matters is that the general public will compare the two, and DC will just look like an imitator. I love Jack Kirby, but we should only have one major villain with the Jack Kirby Jawline in movie franchises per decade. This movie could have been very much the same if they'd used some of DC's other, different villains (Mongol and his War World, The Prince of Tears, Desire from Sandman, or, heck, even Sea King or Starro the Conqueror if you just change their names.) It's too late for that for now, but I just kept imagining how much cooler this plot would have been if the villain had been some sort of herald of Starro, looking to activate a beacon to draw the conqueror closer to Earth. Batman would have cultists and secret societies to punch, Wonder Woman would have a cosmic quasi-god to contend with, and Superman would've had a threat from beyond the stars, all without making it look like they're just ripping off the MCU. Ah, well...
At any rate, here's my current ranking for how much I've enjoyed recent DC movies...
1) Wonder Woman, obviously 2) LEGO Batman, even if it's more LEGO than Batman at times 3) Justice League, I guess? 4) Suicide Squad [4.5) Green Lantern? I don't know if that's recent enough to be a part of this continuity. I don't feel like it is, but I'll drop it here.] 5) Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, the movie that was so weak that the title Dawn of Justice (an awesome title) wouldn't hold up well enough to bring in the fans. 6) Man of Steel
Note that this is a list of how much I enjoyed a movie, not my measure of their quality as movies. Man of Steel would be higher than Batman v Superman if this was a quality measurement, along with a few other changes.
It's tricky to determine how this list matches up with how much I enjoyed MCU movies, especially since I had wildly different opinions on a few key MCU movies than most other people (I seriously disliked Avengers: Age of Ultron and didn't care for Captain America: The Winter Soldier, for instance) Having said that, I'd sooner watch even the lowly Iron Man 2 again before watching Man of Steel.
...wait... actually, maybe I take that back... I think I disliked them both about equivalently. Man of Steel has moments that raise its general badness up to the general badness of Iron Man 2.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Nov 29, 2017 14:31:22 GMT -5
Green Lantern was initially part of the cinematic universe but it was kicked out when it underperformed. Theyçre going to reboot the Lanterns completely eventually (if this mess ever gets that far).
|
|
|
Post by Mod City on Nov 29, 2017 16:25:15 GMT -5
Green Lantern was initially part of the cinematic universe but it was kicked out when it underperformed. Theyçre going to reboot the Lanterns completely eventually (if this mess ever gets that far). I realize my taste is marginal at best, but I didn't mind the Green Lantern movie. I suppose if they had decided to stick with that version it would have denied us Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool, though, so in that regard it's a positive.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Nov 29, 2017 17:37:07 GMT -5
I kinda regard Green Lantern the same way I do Suicide Squad. I didn't mind it at first but the more I tried to watch it the worse it got. Now it's just on a shelf gathering dust.
Right now the best thing that resulted from that movie is the First Viewing video Nostalgia Critic did where they just kept drinking while watching it, then they had to watch Kangaroo Jack immediately afterward and they were completely hammered.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Nov 29, 2017 22:14:56 GMT -5
On the subject of ranking the DCEU, after a bit of consideration I'm definitely going to say Justice League is worse than BvS. It's too much of a clumsy Frankenstein monster. Dawn of Justice may not have been perfect but I see myself more in tune with its ambition, of which Justice League didn't really have any.
1. Wonder Woman 2. Man of Steel 3. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 4. Justice League 5. Suicide Squad
And to rub salt in the wound of JL's failure, now we have the Infinity War trailer. It's almost as if Marvel's saying "Oh I'm sorry DC, did you want your movie to be this? Well, keep practicing and maybe you'll get there."
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Feb 16, 2018 0:36:51 GMT -5
I don't have time for anything in-depth, but let me just say Black Panther is one of the best superhero movies ever.
::mic drop::
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Apr 26, 2018 23:21:39 GMT -5
I have to be up early tomorrow, but I don't think I'll be getting much sleep tonight. Infinity War jazzed me up way too much. Easily the best Avengers movie by a mile (bear in mind this is coming frome someone who finds the first wildly overrated and the second easily trumps it even with its flaws).
I need to digest it more if I want to type a review or anything for it, but what I can say for certain is SEE THIS MOVIE WITH A CROWD! Don't let opening weekend slip by!
MCU Rank: 1. Black Panther 2. Captain America: Civil War 3. Thor 4. The Incredible Hulk 5. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 6. Avengers: Infinity War 7. Doctor Strange 8. Iron Man 9. Avengers: Age of Ultron 10. Captain America: The First Avenger 11. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 12. Thor: The Dark World 13. Iron Man 3 14. The Avengers 15. Guardians of the Galaxy 16. Spider-Man: Homecoming 17. Ant-Man 18. Thor: Ragnarok 19. Iron Man 2
|
|
|
Post by Mod City on Apr 27, 2018 12:03:48 GMT -5
I need to digest it more if I want to type a review or anything for it, but what I can say for certain is SEE THIS MOVIE WITH A CROWD! Don't let opening weekend slip by! Man, I really want to see it this weekend, I just don't know if it's going to happen. I can't go tonight, and there are things I've put off for three weeks that I really need to do on Saturday and Sunday. Besides, the closest theater to me is an hour away, and the reserved seating for the weekend shows (other than the ones that start at 8 a.m.) have only rough seats left. If I go non-reserved seating, I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck in bad seats, anyway, as all the crazy Marvel fans arrive three hours early to make sure they get good seats. I just can't sacrifice that kind of time. So, barring this weekend, the earliest I could go is if I wrangle an afternoon off of work on Thursday. I think I could do this. I'm just hoping I survive without spoilers until then. Didn't know how excited I'd be when this thing finally came out. Paying the price for it now by not having jumped on tickets weeks ago.
|
|
|
Post by Mod City on Apr 28, 2018 21:01:56 GMT -5
OK, busted my hump to get a lot of stuff done and saw it this afternoon.
Holy...
I got one of the last reserved seats at a 3D showing - a good seat, almost dead center of the theater. One lonely seat in a row of 20 seats - since I went alone it worked out great. I hadn't seen a 3D movie since I saw Captain EO back in the day. It took me about 15 minutes or so to get used to it, but once I did was it was fantastic. Doctor Strange is my favorite MCU movie and character, and the 3D really took him to the next level. Just awesome.
And Torgo's right. See it with a crowd. The emotions run all over in this one. Be prepared.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on May 17, 2018 23:39:44 GMT -5
I just got out of Deadpool 2.
The long and short of it is that if you enjoyed the first one there is a pretty good chance you'll enjoy this one. The jokes are at least as on point as the first and it's still fun seeing Ryan as the character. Perhaps mileage may vary on just how long it will take until the public tires of seeing the routine (how long until we were sick of Jack Sparrow? Personally I was getting irritated by the end of the first movie on him), but I personally would pay to see another.
I think the original was tighter, personally. I also think there was more of a beautiful simplicity to it as well. Deadpool 2 is bigger, more bombastic, and a bit more complicated. By the end I can safely say I was satisfied by the meal, but I left the table feeling like I might have ate too much.
|
|
|
Post by Grievous on Jun 28, 2018 4:05:29 GMT -5
I actually watched the 1996 version of The Phantom the other day...
It was actually pretty fun...
SLAM EVIL!
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Jul 6, 2018 0:43:29 GMT -5
Ant-Man and the Wasp was tonight. I've been anticipating Wasp's film debut for years, though as someone who wasn't very enthused with the first Ant-Man I'd say I have pretty much the same opinion of the sequel: it's a thoroughly competent film full of missed opportunities. As for whether or not I liked it better than the first, I'm going to sleep on that. Maybe I'll need to watch the first again as well, since I don't think I've popped it in since it hit blu-ray. One thing I need to get off my chest: Eff Marvel for making Wasp disappear during "The Snap." I was very much looking forward to an Avengers movie with the five original Avengers in play, assholes.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Jul 6, 2018 21:48:11 GMT -5
Okay, I've digested it a little, and I refreshed myself on the first Ant-Man. The first movie is better than I remember it being. I think I remembered little things that annoyed me more than the little moments that charmed me. I never hated the movie, though I might respect it a little more after this viewing.
I never really did any in-depth overview of Black Panther and Infinity War, both of which I've watched many times since they've came out. Infinity War in particular I've seen four times in theaters and am currently planning a fifth, which is something I never do. It's really a movie I want to see in the premium format as much as possible (is this how LOTR fans felt way back in the day? I finally understand). Why haven't I gone in-depth with them? Personally I've never been very good at putting together words that describe "HOLY F*** THAT WAS AWESOME!" It's easier talking about what doesn't work and just savoring what does. But when it comes to Black Panther and Infinity War, my response is...just LOOK at it! My mouth is watering!
Ant-Man and the Wasp however is a more flawed movie, which means I could talk about it for days. If I were to describe it simply I'd say it's the Rise of the Silver Surfer to the first movie's Fantastic Four '05. Most might see that as an insult, but I'm more meaning it in that it doubles down on what they did in the first movie, for better or worse, without really improving upon the formula. I felt exactly the same watching Ant-Man and the Wasp that I did watching Ant-Man three years ago. For people who loved the first Ant-Man more than I did, I hope they take that as a good sign.
Things that worked for me in the original Ant-Man still work here. My favorite parts are between Scott and his daughter, who is still adorable and says some of the funniest things in the movie. Michael Pena is still has some great moments, and if you loved his silly, fast-talking stories in the first one then I'm happy to report he has a great one in this movie, though there wasn't a moment in it as grand as "CRAZY STUPID FINE!" (on that subject, Stan Lee's cameo is good but nowhere near as memorable as the first). One thing I noticed in this second movie in particular is that I really enjoy the relationship between Hank Pym and Scott Lang. It forgoes the typical mentor relationship and just lets us no at every corner that Pym can't stand Scott and only really works with him because he has to. Even at the end of the film they don't really change, Scott still appreciates Pym and Pym still just tolerates Scott.
Things I liked more than the first movie: I liked how this movie does quirkier things with the shrinking and growing than the first film does. The first hour introduces a lot of fun new ways for the characters to play with it and they're pretty wild. It reminded me a bit of Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol when all of a sudden these characters were using wacky spy gizmos that the series hadn't used before, but was so playful with it that you just accepted the ride.
But there is a double edged sword here. As much as I enjoyed that they did new things, by the second half of the movie it became clear that they had run out of new things to do and were just repeating old things. By the end action scenes just started to feel like action scenes we had seen before earlier in the movie. It got to the point where I was just thinking "Okay, they're playing Keepaway with Ghost for the third time...oh it's another chase scene with a tiny car...I've already seen Wasp do those moves, but cool I guess...oh the regulator is malfunctioning again, which I guess is still funny..." By the time I got to the end of the movie I felt like I was just done with it and I had seen all they had to offer.
I think this stems a bit from Peyton Reed, who I think is a technically competent director more than a good one. I haven't seen much of his work outside of Ant-Man (I know I've seen Yes Man but recall next to nothing about it), though what strikes me is that there are a grand amount of things in the movie that a more visionary director would have taken advantage of that Reed just "point and shoots" at. The supervillain of Ghost, for example. If you had put this movie in the hands of, oh say, Sam Raimi for example he would have seen the opportunities to infuse a bit of horror in the way she is shot and what her powers were. Reed more or less just has her pose in a threatening manor, walk through walls, and appear suddenly, which is a bit of a waste.
But that's more of my pining for an Ant-Man franchise that never happened. I suppose I'm still bitter that Edgar Wright never got to make his movie, though I got Baby Driver instead so I'm not complaining anymore.
Um...final random thoughts...I still enjoy Christophe Beck's score, which is just as fun as the first and jiggied up in sweet places. The cast is still great. I don't particularly think Paul Rudd is a great leading man, but I like the ensemble and I like the way they portray these characters. Michelle Pfeiffer, who I still say was a terrible Catwoman, doesn't have a lot to do here. She's more of a McGuffin than an actual character. End credit scenes have Infinity War aftermath, one setting up Ant-Man's role in Avengers 4 while the other is just fluffy and cute (half of the world vanished BUT LOOK AT THE FUNNY ANT!). As petty as it sounds, I don't like the switch to the 2.40:1 aspect ratio for this film. I think the first Ant-Man played it really smart and thought vertically by using 1.85:1, allowing for full immersion in the shrinking scenes. Most movies make the mistake in thinking scope is better because it's wider, but I think more films need to take a more serious look at whether or not a taller picture can service your story better. As a result the cinematography of Ant-Man and the Wasp just doesn't look as appealing. Finally I think my overall impression of the film itself is that if it trimmed the redundancy a bit and cut fifteen minutes we would have a leaner, and maybe better movie. But that's just me.
1. Black Panther 2. Captain America: Civil War 3. Thor 4. The Incredible Hulk 5. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 6. Avengers: Infinity War 7. Doctor Strange 8. Iron Man 9. Avengers: Age of Ultron 10. Captain America: The First Avenger 11. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 12. Thor: The Dark World 13. Iron Man 3 14. The Avengers 15. Guardians of the Galaxy 16. Spider-Man: Homecoming 17. Ant-Man 18. Ant-Man and the Wasp 19. Thor: Ragnarok 20. Iron Man 2
But now we're out of MCU movies until Captain Marvel hits next March. I have high hopes for that one. Until then I need to finish up season two of Luke Cage (which I'm enjoying more than the first so far) and get caught up with Cloak and Dagger (which is fine, but I'm getting tired of slow burn shows in the MCU. We have about three too many). I think Iron Fist, Daredevil, and maybe Runaways might hit before then as well, so there is plenty to keep me occupied.
Now to go back and pray that Venom and Aquaman aren't awful.
|
|