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Post by TJ Truffleberrys on Dec 16, 2012 10:46:00 GMT -5
I'm curious. How much did the Brains (or the network) pay for the rights to a movie? What was the budget for a single episode? I'm guessing some movies cost more than others, I wonder what was the most expensive/least expensive? Does anyone know?
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Post by Satchmo on Dec 16, 2012 15:30:21 GMT -5
I think that in the beginning, most or all of the films were public domain movies that KTMA had in their library. I think a lot of the movies throughout the series run were in the public domain.
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Post by disco316 on Dec 16, 2012 15:39:07 GMT -5
Or movies the company that owned the network already had tv rights to air. CC was owned by Time Warner and Viacom during the show's run (now just Viacom), so whatever their networks had rights for was probably more or less fair game. Same reason the Sci-Fi era had so many Universal movies.
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Dec 16, 2012 16:41:13 GMT -5
Actually, I've heard Bill Rebane paid MST3K $5000 to get them to feature Monster A Go-Go.
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Post by ProjectedPaul on Dec 16, 2012 16:58:22 GMT -5
I once saw this interview that I believed included Jim Mallon, Mike Nelson, and Kevin Murphy at the Museum of Television & Radio (Now the Paley Center on Media) in Los Angeles back in 1995 involving this question (You might be able to still see the same video at the New York City Paley Center today upon request).
In it, I believe they said that the greatest amount of money that the network (then Comedy Central) had to pay for the rights to a single movie, up to the end of the 5th season, was $4,000, with the cheapest minimum price for the rights to any film featured on the show was $2,000.
In 1999 I read, during the show's 10th and final season, SciFi Channel execs, i.e. Bonnie Hammer, claimed that it was becoming more difficult to find rights holders of movies who were willing to license their films for the show. Some of those rights holders were demanding as much as $75,000 a movie during the SciFi Channel run. These statements by SciFi regarding movie rights costs, along with the budget of each episode being about $100,000 to produce, BEFORE movie rights costs were used as reasons to cancel MST3k, due to budgetary costs concerns, among other reasons.
In the late 90s and the early 21st century, the economy was good, and with digitizing of films and DVDs and other emerging outlets, movie rights holders felt their films had more value and demanded more, or kept their films to themselves to release on video.
This made it difficult for Rhino particularly to release MST3k on VHS and later DVD, because of licensing difficulties and costs. In addition, when a movie appeared on MST3k, their exposure on the show made their value go up in value, at least in the minds of the rights holders. Chris Cornell of Satellite News explained this to me once in a chat. He said that many of the films featured on MST3k were usually excluded from those movie guide books sold in stores, like the Video Hound Golden Movie Retriever book. After being featured on the show, they were added in these books' entries.
The rights to any copyrighted films featured on the show were limited to a certain amount of showings over a certain amount of years and would expire. When they did, the movie rights holders for TV distribution would demand more money to renew the rights, often only selling the film in a library with others films the network didn't want. When the networks balked, the rights holders sold the TV rights to another network.
Now, the economy and the home video market has dramatically changed, and rights holders are willing to license their films to MST3k's new distributor, Shout Factory, in their MST3k format while selling the original version separately. Shout Factory says they don't discuss movie rights licensing costs and budgets for DVD releases. I imagine that such info would hurt their ability to negotiate a good deal with other rights holders in the future. They might demand more money if they found out that other companies got more money offered to them to license their MST3k films to Shout Factory.
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Dec 16, 2012 19:53:21 GMT -5
In 1999 I read, during the show's 10th and final season, SciFi Channel execs, i.e. Bonnie Hammer, claimed that it was becoming more difficult to find rights holders of movies who were willing to license their films for the show. Some of those rights holders were demanding as much as $75,000 a movie during the SciFi Channel run. These statements by SciFi regarding movie rights costs, along with the budget of each episode being about $100,000 to produce, BEFORE movie rights costs were used as reasons to cancel MST3k, due to budgetary costs concerns, among other reasons. Holy crap. A hundred grand to produce one episode at SciFi? Man, that's a far cry from the KTMA days (didn't it cost them something like $100 per episode then?). Still, man... a hundred grand per episode, wow. Does this mean that Crow wasn't joking in that host segment in no. 814 where he says "what do you expect? I'm made of molybdenum!"? |
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Post by TJ Truffleberrys on Dec 16, 2012 19:53:44 GMT -5
$100,000 dollars an episode???
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Post by TJ Truffleberrys on Dec 16, 2012 19:55:32 GMT -5
Wow, Mike beat me to it, wish I knew how to edit.
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Post by ProjectedPaul on Dec 16, 2012 20:59:25 GMT -5
Yes. I derived the $100,000 per episode cost from some old info that used to be on the Satellite News FAQ sections regarding production of the show from the past, that's no longer present.
It had something to do with the fact that it took 10 days total to make an episode, 5 days to write for it one week, another 5 days to film it, which expanded after during the last season for Comedy Central and was retained for the SciFi Channel run, which added to the costs, which was estimated in that old site FAQ section.
So basically, near the end of the show's run, it costs around $100,000 an episode PLUS the network had to license movies for them to use.
In other words, the network had pay separately for the costs of licensing the movie for each episode. You're going from Comedy Central having only to pay $4,000 max to license a film in the past for the show, and later SciFi is dealing with fewer and fewer rights holders willing to have their films featured and mocked on MST3k, who sometimes were demanding as much as $75,000 a movie near the end. This is on top of the $100,000 an episode cost they pay to Best Brains to make a single episode.
If the information I've gathered in the past is accurate per the past sources, you can see what motivated SciFi execs to cancel MST3k in part. TV is a business after all. You can't have MST3k without films to mock. SciFi didn't even own MST3k outright. Best Brains did. Best Brains retained all other revenue-generating rights, like merchandise and video rights.
Production costs of all such TV shows go up with time for a number of reasons, like to retain the talent of the writers/performers, which eventually leads to their end. There's also the behind-the scenes production crew members who were employed, with employee benefits like health insurance to pay the expenses of. MST3k lasted 10 seasons. That's a long time in the business.
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Post by mylungswereaching on Dec 17, 2012 13:36:00 GMT -5
A hundred thousand an episode for a two hour show is dirt cheap. For example: articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/25/business/la-fi-ct-sunny-20100926It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia': A low-budget hit "Now, other networks are seeking to copy the success of "Sunny." They also want to produce a half-hour comedy for $400,000 per episode — about one-fourth the industry average. " According to this article an average 1/2 hour show on tv costs about 1.6 million dollars per episode. That would make it 6.4 million dollars for two hours of programing today for an average show. Two hours of scripted tv today is around 6 million dollars an episode. MST3k cost 100,000 to produce plus $70,000 to obtain the rights and they canceled it because it cost too much? This is comparing a show on FX to a show on CC/Sci Fi. Granted the costs were lower 10 years ago but not that much lower. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia is considered a cheap show at $400,000 an episode. Two hours of Sunny would cost $1.6 Million. That would pay for 8 two hour episides (16 hours of show) at $2,000,000 an episode, (inflation) of MST3k. Most TV networks don't own the rights to the shows. The studio that produced them do. |
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Dec 17, 2012 17:24:46 GMT -5
A hundred thousand an episode for a two hour show is dirt cheap.
For example:
articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/25/business/la-fi-ct-sunny-20100926
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia': A low-budget hit
"Now, other networks are seeking to copy the success of "Sunny." They also want to produce a half-hour comedy for $400,000 per episode — about one-fourth the industry average. "... Actually, I'm kinda' pulling your leg, there. Couldn't resist; I finally had a chance to cite Crow's molybdenum crack. Seriously, though, given the info on Always Sunny In Philadelphia, $100k for an episode of MST3K for SciFi Channel really is dirt cheap -- especially considering that was thirteen years ago. Besides, molybdenum is pretty rare stuff; it probably would've cost well over a hundred grand just to build Crow. |
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Post by mylungswereaching on Dec 18, 2012 14:55:58 GMT -5
A hundred thousand an episode for a two hour show is dirt cheap.
For example:
articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/25/business/la-fi-ct-sunny-20100926
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia': A low-budget hit
"Now, other networks are seeking to copy the success of "Sunny." They also want to produce a half-hour comedy for $400,000 per episode — about one-fourth the industry average. "...
Seriously, though, given the info on Always Sunny In Philadelphia, $100k for an episode of MST3K for SciFi Channel really is dirt cheap -- especially considering that was thirteen years ago.
Besides, molybdenum is pretty rare stuff; it probably would've cost well over a hundred grand just to build Crow.[/sup] I knew you were joking. I Thought it was a pretty good reference. Its always aggrevated me that the network used cost as a reason to cancel one of the cheapest (and funniest) scripted shows ever produced. |
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Post by Monophylos on Dec 18, 2012 15:52:25 GMT -5
Besides, molybdenum is pretty rare stuff; it probably would've cost well over a hundred grand just to build Crow. Molybdenum isn't that rare. These days it trades at about $25,000 per tonne on the London Metal Exchange, about level with tin and cobalt. |
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Dec 18, 2012 18:45:06 GMT -5
...Its always aggrevated me that the network used cost as a reason to cancel one of the cheapest (and funniest) scripted shows ever produced. Yeah, that was pretty weak... especially when you consider that today, SciFi's gained a reputation for being infested with crap that likely cost at least twice as much to produce as an episode of MST3K. Didn't some critic, in a recent review of a made-for-TV movie on SciFi, comment that it was too bad MST3K wasn't still on the air so they could make fun of it? I was also just thinking... if it was all about cost, couldn't they have gone "back to the roots" and done some more scruffy old ploppers? There must've been a huge-assed pile of good old-fashioned crusty stinkburgers from the '50s and '60s that they hadn't done yet -- a whole bunch of turdbombs that were either lapsed into public domain, or were probably available for a song: Cat Women Of The Moon, Mesa Of Lost Women (later done by RiffTrax), Ed Wood's Plan 9 From Outer Space (also later done by RiffTrax), Jail Bait and Night Of The Ghouls, Roger Corman's Not Of This Earth and Track Of The Vampire, Bela Lugosi's The Devil Bat and Invisible Ghost, John Carradine-Wendell Corey-Tura Satana vehicle Astro Zombies... you get the idea. Hell, I probably just listed a season's worth of public domain and/or cheaply-available stuff right there. |
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Post by mylungswereaching on Dec 18, 2012 20:23:00 GMT -5
Cost averaging. 20 episodes, - 12 old public domain, 6 newer but cheaper at say $5000 each and 2 newer more expensive at say $50,000 each. $0+ $30,000 + $100,000= $130,000. $130,000/20 = $6,500 per episode cost to aquire the rights. You want to have the 8 newer, color episodes to satisfy the people who don't like the older black and white ones. Just spread them out over the year.
Plus there's no rights issues with the public domain ones. Play them to death in repeats and spread out the repeats of the expensive ones. After a few years, you've got 30, 40 episodes to play anytime you need to fill up space, like a 2am spot when you can't sell a stupid infomercial.
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