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Post by Mighty Jack on Dec 18, 2014 1:16:18 GMT -5
I don't doubt your honest assessment, but I stand by my thesis. Sorry. I still think that had J&TBs treated Fu Manchu like any other episode, it wouldn't have the bottom of the barrel reputation it has. If they had cried and whined like that during an equally bad/washed out/bad audio but passable movie like, say, "The Indestructible Man" then we'd remember that as being the worst ever. But in the spirit of positive contributions, I'll mention an oft-overlooked worst ever candidate: "The Blood Waters of Dr. Z". That one's just unbearable, sargassum or not. Fu was not a well received film, long before MST got its hands on it. I don't think your giving us enough credit for being able to think for ourselves. We have an intelligent fan base who, while laughing at the jokes, are able to form their own opinion on the movies and actors. J&TB didn't make me dislike Fu Manchu. Fu Manchu did that on its own.
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Post by Who Let Servo Drive on Dec 18, 2014 11:18:27 GMT -5
In order for a movie to be really unsavable even under MST riffing, it has to be basically a non-entity. It has to do so little to entertain that there's no way a riff, like a seed on rock, can find purchase.
In other words, a misguided attempt to entertain is better -- in fact, it's prime riffing material.
With that in mind, I'd say a lot of the black and white hack-directed dreck from the 40s and 50s is dire even when riffed. I would argue that The Puma Man and Invasion USA are pretty much coma inducing.
But let me immediately contradict myself and say that several MSTs I love can be catagorized the same way -- the entire Coleman Francis cycle, Manos and The Starfighters, all true corpse-films, are some of my favorite episodes. One could argue of course that Manos tried to be scary and the Coleman Francis movies took themselves very seriously -- ridiculous pretensions that give room for riffing, I imagine, but The Starfighters is arguably not even a movie at all. It's just a length of film.
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Post by Triple_sSs on Dec 19, 2014 14:21:17 GMT -5
I personally find Touch of Satan to be about as enjoyable as influenza. I'm a bit surprised when some say this is a classic, because IMO the pain factor is about up there with Castle of Fu Manchu. The movie's just so slow, dull, and ugly that even the admittedly good riffing and host segments couldn't save it for me. Bleh.
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Dec 19, 2014 19:26:33 GMT -5
Castle Of Fu Manchu, by a mile. I could just barely get through it when it first aired; every time I've tried to re-watch it after that, I couldn't get through it. I still can't get through it.
Alien From L.A. didn't go down very easily for me, either. I could've dug it OK without Kathy Ireland. Every scene she was in, she made me want to smack her in the face.
Time Of The Apes was also really disappointing for me. I'm predisposed toward giving half a chance to Japanese horror/sci-fi of that era, but Time Of The Apes didn't really break the Goofy Meter the way the Gamera flicks did. The embarassingly bad ape makeup effex -- where the mouths didn't move -- were pretty funny, but couldn't really hold that one down by themselves.
I didn't find San Francisco International that bad, really, but it did seem kind of dry and tedious. It didn't make it into my "rotation".
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Post by Who Let Servo Drive on Dec 26, 2014 11:13:32 GMT -5
Interesting Mike, I found Alien from LA to be very entertaining (as riffed I mean) as you could see they had some ambition and were really trying to create this whole richly-realized underground dystopia in the movie, and the fact that they reached so far and failed so spectacularly was, IMO at least, fertile ground for riffing.
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Dec 26, 2014 19:08:57 GMT -5
Interesting Mike, I found Alien from LA to be very entertaining (as riffed I mean) as you could see they had some ambition and were really trying to create this whole richly-realized underground dystopia in the movie, and the fact that they reached so far and failed so spectacularly was, IMO at least, fertile ground for riffing. If nothing else, I do have to give Alien From L.A. some props for a rich and evocative visual style in the underground city scenes. Other than that, it was pretty dull, but I could've rolled with that if not for Kathy Ireland's off-scale annoying delivery.
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Dec 26, 2014 19:14:47 GMT -5
First one to say Hamlet will be banned. Well, I'm going to say Hamlet, only because after months of fits and starts and repeated re-viewings over the years, it finally started to grow on me, and finally found a regular spot in my "rotation". True, the acting seems dry and stilted, and the set design and visual style are so grim and oppressive it might make you want to get drunk and slit your wrists, and yet somehow it's prime riff fodder because of that, and has also become a favorite of mine for no other reason than that MST3K actually "stretched" and took some chances riffing on a production of Shakespeare -- although Mike'n'the Bots are actually riffing more on that particular production of Hamlet than on the play itself. I'm also rather embarassed to note that MST3K's riffed version was the first production of Hamlet I ever saw.
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Dec 26, 2014 19:19:04 GMT -5
Ah, well, you use the term "movie". I wouldn't classify these features as "movies" as rather I would classify them as "movie residue"... That comment reminds me of Kevin Murphy's riff in Mesa Of Lost Women in which he characterizes the spastic incidental music as "...not so much music as it is a pile of notes." Unfortunately, I forget right offhand which episode has Crow (I think?) commenting that a movie was made by "throwing a bunch of film into a blender".
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Dec 26, 2014 19:26:10 GMT -5
I'd say Castle of Fu Manchu WAS a really bad movie, but I think J&TB's actually DID make that episode tolerable, so I'm not going to include that one. Overdrawn at the Memory Bank, however - sheesh... Overdrawn At The Memory Bank was one of the episodes I revisited as part of my occasional "For The First Time, Again Project", along with Giant Spider Invasion, They Live By Night, Blood Waters Of Dr. Z, Boggy Creek II, Alien From L.A., Teenage Strangler and Being From Another Planet.There was a lot of things about Overdrawn that gave it a lot of potential -- the cheap production values, the sketchy inconsistent Casablanca parallel universe, the overused kitschy dated '80s digital effex, the dopey contrived slang in the dialog -- but it never managed to achieve a critical mass of "badness". I really tried hard to get into it, but I just couldn't. Still, I loved Pearl's performance of "When Loving Lovers Love".
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Post by Mike Flugennock on Dec 26, 2014 19:36:29 GMT -5
I second Mr. A about Blood Waters of Dr. Z. It's a tossup between that and Fu Manchu IMHO. See my previous comment about my "For The First Time, Again Project" regarding Overdrawn At The Memory Bank. I watched Dr. Z again this past summer after not having seen it since it was in reruns on SciFi, and was astonished that I could've forgotten such a hysterical episode. It became an instant favorite, earning a solid spot in my rotation as soon as I heard the line "Sargassum -- the Weed Of Deceit!" The slouchy old hang-dog loser ex-Nazi scientist turning himeself into a slouchy hang-dog loser fish monster -- the two orange-jumpsuited scientist/lovers -- the laughably lame performance of the guy playing the male half of the orange-jumpsuited scientist/lover duo, including his "trekkin'" in the little amphibious Banana Splits cartoon car and his pointless riding on the running board of the truck everywhere they went. Blood Waters Of Dr. Z is a wonderful smorgasbord of stupid, and Mike'n'the Bots are on it like a big dog.
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Post by posturepal on Dec 31, 2014 6:26:58 GMT -5
My knee-jerk reaction to this question is always Castle of Fu Manchu. Then, my everything else-jerk reaction is the same answer. The confusing plot and editing, the cinematography, the print, an Asian Christopher Lee, Rocky's brother-in-law's nose hairs, etc. Isn't that enough? I've rewatched it after a few years and my reaction is the same. It's so awful I've seen the DVD set it's on selling new for like $14 bucks. The episode actually DEVALUES other episodes it associates with.
From the Mike era, Invasion of the Neptune Men is awful if only because your hopes are so high for a great ep because it comes from Japan and there are so many MST3K classics from that genre. Neptune Men seems to suck all happiness from you as you watch it. I remember feeling sad that Mike and the crew even had to endure this one.
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Post by mrmeadows on Jan 9, 2015 20:30:02 GMT -5
Experiments that are extremely hard for me to make it through:
FIRST SPACESHIP ON VENUS - The Klack segment is great, but the movie numbs my brain and the riffing is slow and uninspired.
KILLER SHREWS - Movie is too claustrophobic with nothing happening for so long. I always fall asleep. (It does however kick off with "Junior Rodeo Daredevils", which is a fantastic short!)
KITTEN WITH A WHIP - Poor choice for an MST3K movie; doesn't give them enough to work with, although Ann-Margret is easy on the eyes. Still, I find it dull.
HAMLET - Yes, Hamlet.
On the other hand, FU MANCHU and the Coleman Francis troika are some of my favorite episodes! Go figure.
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Post by sidmelton on Jan 12, 2015 0:27:44 GMT -5
I never watch Season 1 episodes. I feel like the show actually begins with Season 2. When I looked at the titles, I realized yet again how much I love MST3K. There are so few episodes I actively dislike. The "worst eps" are usually just ones where I'm either bored or can't connect. But, other than the Pearl character, there is nothing in MST3K history that I've ever actively disliked in a major way. So, I'd love to give more insight for each title, but these are mainly eps where I can't get into them....all really for the same reasons listed above.
Season 2: Rocket Attack USA Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster
Season 3: Gamera vs. Barugon Gamera vs. Gaos Mighty Jack
Season 4: Hercules and the Captive Women - but, I enjoy Gypsy's time in the theater Manhunt in Space Crash of the Moons - love the Gypsy moon sketch
Season 5: Hercules Gunslinger Radar Secret Service - although I adore the short
Season 6: Colossus and the Headhunters - LOVE the host segments, never could get into the movie The Sinister Urge - on the bubble, but, ultimately not one of my favorites Kitten with a Whip Racket Girls - the short is great though The Amazing Transparent Man - like the short Samson vs. the Vampire Women - never could get into the movie and I was so sad to see Frank go...overall, just a depressing episode
Season 7: Escape 2000
Season 8: The Thing That Couldn't Die Terror From the Year 5000 The She Creature
Season 9: The Projected Man - one of my least favorite...bottom 5. Dislike Castle Forrester and the film never grabs me The Space Children Gorgo Quest of the Delta Knights - Pearl, Pearl, Pearl.
Season 10: Boggy Creek II - one of the only 80's movie eps that I could never get into Hamlet - least favorite ep of the series by a lot.....sorry
So looking at the list above, if I had to pick the worst of those - the only ones I really never want to watch: Hamlet Projected Man Quest of the Delta Knights Boggy Creek II Gorgo Samson vs. the Vampire Women
I can honestly say I never feel the need to watch any of those 5. I could happily watch any of the other eps from Seasons 2 - 10. That's a pretty incredible hit to miss ratio.
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Post by Who Let Servo Drive on Jan 22, 2015 14:21:39 GMT -5
I never watch Season 1 episodes. I feel like the show actually begins with Season 2. I'm not a big fan of season 1 either. I am currently watching the show start to finish and that included the KTMAs I could find. Yes, the riffing was pretty poor (until the later eps of S1 anyway), and I'm personally not a fan of Josh's performance on the show so I was very glad when season 2 started. But still, there's something to be said for Season 1, if for no other reason than some of the most common riffs come from those shows, like "hi-keeba!" Without seeing Women of the Prehistoric Planet there's really no way to know what nine more seasons of Hi-Keeba are all about (although come to think of it, did Hi-Keeba die out with Joel? It might have.) Also it helps to demonstrate how much the show progressed. Prime example: I'm a huge fan of Trace on the show but I have to admit both his acting and his puppetry were not fantastic until Season 2. It's amazing how much he turned that around starting in Season 2, though. I wonder if it had something to do with being able to bounce off of Frank Conniff, who is brilliant and hilarious. (The segments with Frank and Dr. F were basically my favorite part of the show and I really missed that when it phased out.)
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Post by bladez636 on Jan 22, 2015 14:58:44 GMT -5
I really feel the need to say "Red Zone Cuba". I fell asleep during this episode, the movie was just so boring. I'll definitely give it another look and re-evaluate at a time when I'm not feeling tired, but for now, I call it one of the most boring...
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