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Post by Afgncaap5 on Apr 19, 2017 0:52:09 GMT -5
Okay, I've made an unspoken promise to watch the show with my sister since we both grew up on it. Unfortunately, as adults finding time to get together and binge things on Netflix is tricky. Thus far I've only seen the majority of episode 1 (we started way too late at night and she started falling asleep.)
There are some oddities with what I've seen, some things that feel rushed... I'm trying to avoid "spoilers", but I can almost guarantee that I'm putting too much thought into some things. All in all I really like what little amount I've seen, but I kinda hope that there are some plot-related justifications for the things that I look at and say "Wait... but why is... why that?"
I'll likely be disappointed. Ultimately, though, that disappointment's just a drop in the bucket of joy I'm getting from it so far.
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Post by TheNewMads on Apr 19, 2017 5:45:39 GMT -5
I donated $200 to the kickstarter and I am very disappointed. The method of pre-recording the riffs makes it all feel so fake. There are too many long jokes and not enough time in between. It ends up making me be more annoyed by the riffers. This ruins it for me. I'll sit down and watch a full episode eventually but i didn't much like what I did see. It didn't occur to me this was the reason why but the riffing did just seem less spontaneous to me. I also wasn't crazy about the intro, with the excess of backstory. what happened to really just relaxing? to tell you the truth i was pessimistic anyway, I really think MST3k is a product of the 90s and wouldn't translate no matter how well-intentioned. no one even watches creature features on UHF anymore! so there's no real referent. i mean if you wanted to update it for the 2010s you'd need the bots to watch Youtube videos and follow Reddit and instagram.
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Post by citizensmurf on Apr 19, 2017 7:40:29 GMT -5
I donated $200 to the kickstarter and I am very disappointed. The method of pre-recording the riffs makes it all feel so fake. There are too many long jokes and not enough time in between. It ends up making me be more annoyed by the riffers. This ruins it for me. I'll sit down and watch a full episode eventually but i didn't much like what I did see. It didn't occur to me this was the reason why but the riffing did just seem less spontaneous to me. I also wasn't crazy about the intro, with the excess of backstory. what happened to really just relaxing? to tell you the truth i was pessimistic anyway, I really think MST3k is a product of the 90s and wouldn't translate no matter how well-intentioned. no one even watches creature features on UHF anymore! so there's no real referent. i mean if you wanted to update it for the 2010s you'd need the bots to watch Youtube videos and follow Reddit and instagram. It's interesting how people keep saying the riffing doesn't feel spontaneous, when even the old show had scripted riffs as well and everyone knew about it. If it's just the feeling of spontaneity people want, well there's a pill for that. And I would disagree about the "excess of backstory". I've seen a ton of discussion and what if's about the characters and their world. Clearly people want more back story, not less, and they are quite relaxed.
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Post by TheNewMads on Apr 19, 2017 8:11:25 GMT -5
I think you needed the riffs to be scripted, otherwise the KTMA episodes would have been better than they were. that's different than delivering them separately than the movie, without even the pretense that they're watching the movie in real time. They used to have a rule that they wouldn't ever have a riff that revealed they'd already seen the whole movie, even though I think they said they saw a movie on average three times to write all the riffs. They had that rule because they wanted to at least have the illusion it was all unspooling for the first time.
To me recording the riffs separately and editing them together with the movie is of a different sort, it's a bit like recording piecemeal to a click track rather than just getting the whole band in the studio and recording at once. It makes a difference, it makes the end result sound more antiseptic.
But I won't go too far into it because i haven't seen much of the new episodes yet (with netflix streaming there is quite a lot of competition for my eyeballs) so I am being a bit like the unbearable twerps who review a movie by saying they turned it off after 10 minutes. still, this is disturbing news to me, plus, i went out to see trace beaulieu and tv's frank at the alamo riff-fest thing and they expressed some sour grapes regarding this MST3k retread. if it's between Trace/TV's Frank and patton oswalt/whoever this felicia day person is, i'll likely be on Team Trace.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Apr 19, 2017 8:37:13 GMT -5
I think you needed the riffs to be scripted, otherwise the KTMA episodes would have been better than they were. that's different than delivering them separately than the movie, without even the pretense that they're watching the movie in real time. They used to have a rule that they wouldn't ever have a riff that revealed they'd already seen the whole movie, even though I think they said they saw a movie on average three times to write all the riffs. They had that rule because they wanted to at least have the illusion it was all unspooling for the first time. To me recording the riffs separately and editing them together with the movie is of a different sort, it's a bit like recording piecemeal to a click track rather than just getting the whole band in the studio and recording at once. It makes a difference, it makes the end result sound more antiseptic. And it would be ok if they did something every once and awhile that alluded accidentally, or coyly that they'd seen the movie before ("He tried to kill me with a forklift" before that even happens, or Joel's umbrella in City Limits). But it's EVERY episode they bring out props or have Servo fly around and set up for a visual gag LONG before the thing he's going to interact with on-screen, or start riffing on something before the audience can see/comprehend it. It's distracting and it's usually not funny enough of a payoff to justify it (though all humor is subjective, etc). And if I hear one more person brush off criticisms about how they made the show, their performances, etc. with "Its just a show, you should...", I'm going to scream.
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Post by thebutcher on Apr 19, 2017 8:49:08 GMT -5
Quick question: Was anybody really clamoring for more arm movements from the bots? Especially in the theater? Their mouths barely move, but you get Crow and Servo gesticulating with every riff.
I think that may be one aspect that Joel miscalculated the fans wanted to see more of.
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Post by travis on Apr 19, 2017 12:32:02 GMT -5
" " It IS a funny trade-off: Crow has expressive arms now (which I do love!), but his eyes rarely move. I know no one could work Crow quite like Trace did, but c'mon.. most of us bot builders give our Crow puppets fully-puppeteerable eyes and this show credits more than one guy running the 'bots!
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Post by gorncaptain on Apr 19, 2017 12:59:40 GMT -5
How soon people forget Crow's arms actually worked in Season One.
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Post by travis on Apr 19, 2017 13:11:08 GMT -5
How soon people forget Crow's arms actually worked in Season One. Are you referring to the barber sketch?
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Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
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Post by Torgo on Apr 19, 2017 13:47:29 GMT -5
, plus, i went out to see trace beaulieu and tv's frank at the alamo riff-fest thing and they expressed some sour grapes regarding this MST3k retread. if it's between Trace/TV's Frank and patton oswalt/whoever this felicia day person is, i'll likely be on Team Trace. Dude...no. Absolutely not. If you don't like the new season that's your business, but please don't bring the "us vs. them" mentality into this. That's asking for hostility and that's something we don't need. One can easily be a fan of Trace and Frank and still love Felicia and Patton. Hell, Frank himself has publicly supported Felicia and Patton in social media, as well as the rest of the cast (one of which was just a few weeks ago). No one needs to take a bloody side on this.
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Post by Scizor-Mothra on Apr 19, 2017 13:58:32 GMT -5
For the host segments, I really hope that there will be more cameos by the movie characters. I was worried at first that there wouldn't be any, but that was alleviated by Time Travelers. This kind of host segment was my favorite from the original show (Because we love you, Cornjob!). Also, I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss the hexfield.
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Post by Mr. Atari on Apr 19, 2017 14:25:17 GMT -5
I'm 4 episodes in and have some conclusions. A few match the majority opinion:
1) Pre-recording riffs and mashing them together, only to pantomime the shadowrama later, is a MAJOR misstep. It absolutely affects the timing and changes the experience of the show. There were a few of the longer riffs in Time Travelers and Avalanche where you could tell the audio of the riff was sped up at the end and then abruptly cut off so as not to overlap the next line of movie dialogue.
2) The puppetry is three times more complicated this way, and three times less effective.
3) Talking over the theme song is dumb. Yet I miss the talking over the Robot Roll Call.
4) I like the new Gypsy and I don't mind the bridge set...or the static camerawork...or the invention exchange.
5) The movie choices have been A+ so far.
6) I like the quality and the tone of the riffing. The long jokes, not so much (like the tedious Interstellar riff in Time Travelers). But the overall riffing score is high for me.
7) I've enjoyed the cameos and the Mads, especially.
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Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
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Post by Torgo on Apr 19, 2017 14:28:39 GMT -5
Dude...no. Absolutely not. If you don't like the new season that's your business, but please don't bring the "us vs. them" mentality into this. That's asking for hostility and that's something we don't need. One can easily be a fan of Trace and Frank and still love Felicia and Patton. Hell, Frank himself has publicly supported Felicia and Patton in social media, as well as the rest of the cast (one of which was just a few weeks ago). No one needs to take a bloody side on this. It is out of bounds to wonder what exactly is being preserved from the original show if it's virtually none of the original talent? At no point did I ever imply that. Debating the merits and distractions of the new series compared to the old is perfectly fine, but the minute you make that choosing a side stance you're making the statement that enjoying the new series is a betrayal of the old cast, which is just not cool.
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Post by TheNewMads on Apr 19, 2017 14:31:00 GMT -5
And if I hear one more person brush off criticisms about how they made the show, their performances, etc. with "Its just a show, you should...", I'm going to scream. I'm torn on this. MST3k is possibly one of the most analyzed and imitated shows of all time, maybe expressly because people take the "it's just a show" line as a sort of ironic dare to analyze and imitate the show, but at the same time the line does also work as an overly facile way to shut down analysis, criticism, and imitation. Someone should write a book on it, with a caveat at the very end that nothing you just read should be taken at all seriously.
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Post by TheNewMads on Apr 19, 2017 14:35:02 GMT -5
It is out of bounds to wonder what exactly is being preserved from the original show if it's virtually none of the original talent? At no point did I ever imply that. Debating the merits and distractions of the new series compared to the old is perfectly fine, but the minute you make that choosing a side stance you're making the statement that enjoying the new series is a betrayal of the old cast, which is just not cool. All i can tell you is that Beaulieu and Conniff both made noises at the Alamo riff-fest to the effect that they were displeased not to be asked to participate. I don't know any background beyond that.
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