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Post by Diet Kolos on May 2, 2019 22:35:34 GMT -5
And that brings us back to the question you asked earlier in the thread: has the Revival attracted a new contingent of younger fans drawn solely to the revival that weren't fans already?
And from your anecdotal experience, and my own...not really? I personally saw almost no traction online for Season 12 outside of already established MSTie bastions. But we don't have a wide view of that kind of thing.
So if it hasn't...then what?
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Post by Megalon on May 2, 2019 23:24:48 GMT -5
And that brings us back to the question you asked earlier in the thread: has the Revival attracted a new contingent of younger fans drawn solely to the revival that weren't fans already? And from your anecdotal experience, and my own...not really? I personally saw almost no traction online for Season 12 outside of already established MSTie bastions. But we don't have a wide view of that kind of thing. So if it hasn't...then what? If we old-timers are the only viewers, then they have no reason not to cater to our tastes, right? (Or is it that if we old-timers are the only viewers, then the show isn't a big money-maker and can't feasibly continue in its current iteration...?)
Whatever the case may be, the next piece of news from Joel (about the show, not the tour) should be pretty telling. A full season at Netflix (20+ episodes) would obviously be great news. Even better would be a multi-season deal; I think that would quash most of the doubts people have about the show's viability and continued success. But another 6-episode season, to be released a year from now, would probably be the worst possible news short of cancellation. The show would just be treading water at that point, doing the bare minimum to stay alive but neither moving nor growing in any meaningful way.
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Post by Megalon on May 2, 2019 23:34:26 GMT -5
And just to clarify my position:
I think Joel & Co. made the right move trying to attract a younger audience to begin with, and I think hiring a new cast was the only way to do it. But now that we're two seasons into the revival and things don't seem to be going as planned, it's time to reassess.
(Of course, if Joel is currently negotiating a multi-season deal with Netflix and things are going amazingly well behind-the-scenes, then never mind.)
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Post by gerswin on May 3, 2019 2:00:19 GMT -5
They could probably do the show for 1/10th the budget and make a profit from distribution and DVD sales. In other words, like it was in the 90s. Not that that will happen.
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Post by Diet Kolos on May 3, 2019 7:33:18 GMT -5
They could probably do the show for 1/10th the budget and make a profit from distribution and DVD sales. In other words, like it was in the 90s. Not that that will happen. Right. Because as we all know the original fans, i.e., us, will show up regardless. We're baked in. They could strip everything down and release 10 episodes over the course of a year through Shout and we'd gobble them up no matter who's host or what the set looks like. The point is, is there still a benefit of jumping through the Netflix's hoops and running the gauntlet of making an expensive, glossy show? If the numbers say that they're indeed getting huge exposure and making loads of cash and new people are flocking to MST like seagulls to a discarded hotdog...then hell yeah, it makes sense! But if you're treading water because the solid but admittedly small fanbase are the only ones watching and buying, and you're still losing 100 grand on every episode and you can't afford to take anyone on tour with you in the downtime...something's gotta give. Either retool or pack it in. But, yes, we need to wait to see what Joel says comes ~June 1.
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Post by vgaddict on May 3, 2019 9:23:09 GMT -5
I mean, MST3K's always been a niche show.
I'm kind of anxious about Joel's announcement on June 1. I don't want the new MST3K to get cancelled just as it's improving. The original show took a while to get good, too. I'd argue Season 4 was when it fully hit its stride.
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Post by Megalon on May 3, 2019 11:38:41 GMT -5
FWIW, I think the June 1 announcement will just be about the tour. We'll have to wait longer for news about the show.
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Post by Afgncaap5 on May 3, 2019 12:39:20 GMT -5
I was about to make some comment about the lengthy waits but then I realized that it was May and suddenly time is slipping away and oh no I'm in a vortex with clocks swirling around me
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Post by wedestroymyths on May 3, 2019 23:44:33 GMT -5
Fell behind on this thread and not sure I read everything in between, but forgive me if this has been mentioned, but has anyone noticed the redesign of ShoutTV's app logo on Roku? It prominently features Tom and Crow...I seriously wonder if the plan is to move the show to Shout, and the long wait for news is to wait out the 2-3 year Netflix clause before the show could find a new home (that 2-3 year thing isn't firm, it sounds like different shows have different clauses etc...). Let's say the clause prevents MST from going somewhere for 2 years. And let's say we get an announcement around Thanksgiving that MST will be moving to Shout, meaning the show could come back the following Thanksgiving?
For my part, (and this begins a more off-topic rant) if MST is off of Netflix, I'm not sure I'll keep my account. Not just because of MST, but after Santa Clarita Diet was cancelled, I read an article discussing how Netflix deals are structured to increase payments to the content producers with each season, so the business model is designed in a way that basically gives Netflix incentive to cancel shows after 2-3 seasons. Which...is kind of a bummer. Who wants to get into new shows just to have them cancelled around the time that a lot of the best shows ever made were just hitting their stride? I mean, imagine a world where Seinfeld was only three seasons. Or MASH. Or Star Trek: TNG...I've been a long time Netflix subscriber, all the way back to the "discs in the mail" era, but their back catalog of old shows and movies is rapidly dwindling, and their Originals are just turning into an annual bloodbath of "oh, let's see which shows I loved got axed this year." At this point, the only shows left I really dig on Netflix are GLOW, Bojack Horseman, and MST (And I bet we'll see Glow cancelled after it's third season). There are a couple of others I've watched (Haunting of Hill House and Umbrella Academy were both fine, but I mostly just watched those because other people were talking about them, and I'm not particularly stoked for future seasons, same with Stranger Things)...so, when I go to watch TV, I'm almost always going to Hulu or Sling. Hell, between Colbert, Star Trek: Discovery, and The Twiglight Zone, I'm into as many shows on CBS All Access as I am on Netflix at this point, and CBS All Access has literally a tiny fraction of the original content Netflix does. So...what's the point, Netflix?
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Post by Ford Prefect on May 4, 2019 15:26:23 GMT -5
And that brings us back to the question you asked earlier in the thread: has the Revival attracted a new contingent of younger fans drawn solely to the revival that weren't fans already? And from your anecdotal experience, and my own...not really? I personally saw almost no traction online for Season 12 outside of already established MSTie bastions. But we don't have a wide view of that kind of thing. So if it hasn't...then what? I have talked to fans on Facebook who have said that younger people they have shown the Jonah episodes to have seemed to prefer them over the earlier episodes. The new overall esthetic and jokes that younger people are more likely to get probably help in that respect. I assume some people tune in just to see Felicia Day and Patton Oswalt. I'm curious to know how well the show is doing outside the US, since roughly half the Netflix audience consists of the international market. I imagine the Jonah episodes have helped the show gain new fans just because, thanks to Netflix, the show finally has some official distribution outside of the North American region that Shout Factory is normally limited to. The question is whether or not Netflix thinks there are enough of these viewers to justify more episodes.
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Post by Ford Prefect on May 4, 2019 15:43:04 GMT -5
They could probably do the show for 1/10th the budget and make a profit from distribution and DVD sales. In other words, like it was in the 90s. Not that that will happen. There's an overriding belief among many fans that the Netflix show has a huge budget. Compared to the classic series yes, but compared to other shows made within the past few years it's still pretty low budget. I doubt most people who work on the modern episodes want to imitate the practice of having a small nonunion crew where one person makes the majority of the residual money.
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Post by Ford Prefect on May 4, 2019 15:52:10 GMT -5
They could probably do the show for 1/10th the budget and make a profit from distribution and DVD sales. In other words, like it was in the 90s. Not that that will happen. Right. Because as we all know the original fans, i.e., us, will show up regardless. We're baked in. They could strip everything down and release 10 episodes over the course of a year through Shout and we'd gobble them up no matter who's host or what the set looks like. The point is, is there still a benefit of jumping through the Netflix's hoops and running the gauntlet of making an expensive, glossy show? Not all of the original fans are on board with the current incarnation, but hopefully new fans have made up the difference to the point where it hasn't hurt their momentum. I hope it continues to be a success at Netflix. If Shout Factory TV or another streaming service takes over, the show's international reach would be hurt severely. Personally I'd be fine with an eight hour block of new MST3K content every year, but it would be great if we got even more.
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Post by BoB3K on May 6, 2019 0:23:58 GMT -5
For another anecdotal data point, my 11 and 13 yr old who were introduced to MST3K at about 6 and 8 with Santa Clause Conquers the Martians and the Gameras, and since then have watch more than a handful of eps, mostly in the Joel era and a few in the Mike era...they like the new eps just fine. As in they don't really seem to like them more or less than any other eps. (Although, if pressed, I'm sure they would say they like Joel the best. ...but then really, who doesn't...)
One thing about the new eps though, is that they can more easily show them to friends who have netflix. Their favorites are Reptilicus, Yongary, and Cry Wilderness.
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Post by ProjectedPaul on May 6, 2019 8:59:34 GMT -5
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Post by mylungswereaching on May 6, 2019 11:51:20 GMT -5
When you have absolutely no clue whether or not a show will survive, it is not as easy to get invested in it. MST3k episodes are stand alone so you don't have to worry about a cliffhanger. With most programs, I usually wait until its been on for 3 or 4 years before I start bothering to watch them. I'd rather not see a show than get invested in it only to see it canceled as soon as it starts getting good.
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