|
Post by Troy's Dad on Aug 5, 2019 10:19:13 GMT -5
This Twitter conversation appeared on the MST3K reddit, and what surprised me was that Joel commented on it (on Twitter):
Basically, it was pointed out that Gypsy is a racial slur and the tweet was retweeted tagging Joel. Joel's reply was: "Yes, we were alerted to this sensitivity and we really don't want to offend. For the time being, I'm fine with using GPC. More permanent work will take time, so please bare with us. I'm just grateful that our thirty + year comedy show has kept the faux pas to a minimum."
So seems Gypsy's name is on the way out and she is GPC for the time being? The live tour cast list just posted today as well, and Gypsy is still referenced. It will be interesting to see if the website is revised and if the name is dropped from the live show.
I know this is a tricky thing to talk about without the conversation diving into political name calling and labeling. but I thought I'd post it here.
Personally, I think Joel should have ignored the whole thing and not responded. Obviously no offense was ever given and the name Gypsy was never applied or used as an insult. I don't think a name change is warranted and I'm kind of over longtime TV shows I enjoy changing names and killing off characters. Oh well...
|
|
|
Post by timmy on Aug 5, 2019 11:20:36 GMT -5
i dont think they should change the name either.
|
|
|
Post by jadenh on Aug 5, 2019 12:50:50 GMT -5
Can someone please explain to me how a word like gypsy is considered offensive? I've always seen it as the words themselves are not offensive. It's the people that give them power to be offensive. And from what I've seen, gypsy tends to have a positive connotation. And if you're gonna say that a character's name from a 30+ year old puppet show is "problematic", then you might as well be complaining about clouds. Gypsy's name should stay.
|
|
|
Post by majorjoe23 on Aug 5, 2019 13:15:42 GMT -5
It was started as a slur by the English to describe Romani people. The word was come up with because the English thought Romani looked like they were Egyptian.
I don't really have a strong feeling about this, since in America it's generally thought of as a word to describe vagabonds, not an ethnicity, and the Romani aren't a prominent ethnic group in this country. Add to that the fact that MST3K is a cult show in the US and didn't get a lot of exposure in Europe when it aired, and it's easy to see why it never caused much uproar.
|
|
|
Post by JLH on Aug 5, 2019 13:55:03 GMT -5
It's stupid. But if they go back to calling her the full KTMA name of Gypsum, I probably wouldn't care.
(coming soon: "Crow's name sounds like "Jim Crow" and is therefore racist too!")
|
|
|
Post by gorncaptain on Aug 5, 2019 14:32:53 GMT -5
Good grief! First they make her the blandest character on the new show and now this? I never even made that connection before. I thought she was named after Gypsy Rose Lee or something? (Gypsy even referenced her in a song in one episode.) I imagine there are lots of people who have that name even today.
If somebody is going to find something to be offended by in MST3K, they don't have to look very hard. Joel is headed down a very slippery slope if he's actually worried about this.
|
|
|
Post by Troy's Dad on Aug 5, 2019 14:37:40 GMT -5
Yeah, Gypsy is also a name and I always assumed it was picked as a reference to a celebrity or because it is a good spacey kinda name.
Joel had some additional comments:
While I'll admit he is being very calm and understanding about the whole thing, I disagree with his decision to make sudden changes because it "may be offensive to someone". In this day and age it seems anything "may be offensive to someone". Seems Joel just doesn't care one way or the other about Gypsy's name, so he's fine with altering it from a few tweets he received.
His decision, I guess (though I have to question if Shout! Factory has a say given don't they partially own the franchise?).
|
|
|
Post by gorncaptain on Aug 5, 2019 15:22:41 GMT -5
Hard to follow Twitter threads at times, but it's seems like just one person on there who's pushing this.
It's bloody stupid either way. They're not going to alter the old episodes or The Movie. Not to mention that Rocky Jones episode they did where a "Gypsy Moon" figures into the plot.
|
|
|
Post by Troy's Dad on Aug 5, 2019 15:35:25 GMT -5
Yeah, it is pretty ridiculous that a few people on Twitter have just renamed a longtime character from the show. They didn't even seem offended, just pointing out that somebody could be offended. I've seen replies suggesting new names and replies saying this is all pretty stupid and its another case of kneejerk reaction to outrage culture, to which Joel usually replies to by disagreeing and downplaying how big a deal it is.
I very much doubt any of the pre-existing episodes or movie will be altered and I can't see existing or future merch dropping the name. He'll probably start using a new name on the tour and if there is ever a season 13 they'd use the new name then.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 17:22:20 GMT -5
Well, chalk this up to another horrible thing to happen to the show since it came back. If MST3K had been left in the past, this never would have happened. Seriously, it's time for the creators to walk away from the show, and not make more. First, they change Gypsy's voice, then they remove a host segment in season 12. I'm telling you, things will only go downhill from here. I hope they bail before they desecrate every thing in the pursuit of a dollar.
|
|
|
Post by monkeypretzel on Aug 5, 2019 21:00:31 GMT -5
This was brought up in 2017 when Season 11 premiered, although the people petitioning then were mostly confined to Tumblr, so no one actually saw much of that campaign. In fact, Ivan commented on it in a then Revival League Podcast interview, that was recorded in LA in May 2017 and published June 6, 2017. Here's the transcript of the relevant part, which starts around 1:29:03: Ivan: This is also maybe a good opportunity to say Gypsy’s actually a really interesting example to mention really quickly, ‘cause one of the things that we heard, I think that we weren’t expecting uh a lot, as the season finally came out, was a lot of people saying that they loved the show, but that the name Gypsy is sort of an offensive artifact and is uh, you know, considered a Romani slur, which I certainly was not something that was ever intended by anybody on the show and, uh, you know, obviously there’s no firm, final answer that we can announce yet but I think, maybe this as good a moment as any to tell people that we’ve heard loud and clear that’s a concern for people and while we’re not trying to like politically correctify the show, we also don’t want to unduly trigger and offend people, you know, for no reason. So we’re certainly looking at ways to fix that for next season.
Joel: Yeah, for a show that’s almost thirty years old-
Ivan: If that’s the ONLY offensive thing we’re doing- (general laughter)
Joel: -I’m pretty happy. Yeah…
Ivan: I mean, you should have heard the character names that were about Jews, originally- (loud general laughter) I say that as a Jew. It’s fine. We’re allowed to say that in Hebrew school.So, the question I have is if you believe what Joel is saying on Twitter, that this is important to him, why change Gypsy's name now? Why wasn't it done for Season 12, or for the two previous live tours, or for the comic book, if it's such a concern? He had a chance to do it then, if not for Season 11 itself then for the 2017 live tour, but he chose to do nothing until this person on Twitter contacted him and made it very public. That's what I think it is: he'll look bad now if he doesn't change the name because many more people saw this than the last time around. (Interview source: www.stitcher.com/podcast/greg-tally-3/mystery-science-theater-3000-revival-league-podcast/e/50389973 )
|
|
|
Post by christmas on Aug 5, 2019 21:30:18 GMT -5
I went two decades of my life not understanding that gypsy referred to a race of person. I honestly thought they were like land pirates or something. I didn't know gyp was a shortening of gypsy, either. Am I especially ignorant for this.
I applaud people who wanna make the world a better place and use their platform to push the boundaries of decency, but I also completely don't give a poopie about this even a little bit. If Joel sees it as a creative opportunity then that's wonderful. But I utterly don't relate to the person who posed this question.
|
|
|
Post by Ford Prefect on Aug 6, 2019 9:51:52 GMT -5
The name is baked into the show. Even if they changed it for upcoming episodes there's still the issue of it being used in over 190 episodes, specials, and a movie. Are they going to do a massive recall of everything she's ever appeared in?
|
|
|
Post by gorncaptain on Aug 6, 2019 11:55:14 GMT -5
People complaining on twitter somehow has weight it seems. Joel's a great guy and simply wants to make everyone happy, and that's impossible. Somebody will find something else on the show to complain about tomorrow, and the day after that too. I was watching Devil Doll last night, with all the British jokes, and pondering how they've made fun of just about every continent except maybe Antarctica. If they did Final Justice today, somebody from Malta would probably have a fit online.
Joel could make lemonade out the whole thing by creating a poll that fans on kickstarter could vote on the matter.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 14:40:13 GMT -5
|
|