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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 21, 2020 12:18:39 GMT -5
Not defensive but frustrated that you cannot grasp the concept of how the internet works I don't appreciate being spoken of this way. I'm done here. How does it feel? You've spoken down to me since the start.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 21, 2020 12:00:18 GMT -5
But if you wanna see me as the villain, be my guest. I really could not care less. Oh please. There's no reason to get defensive. No one is trying to villainize you. I'm just trying to have a civil discussion but I believe now that's unreasonable. Good luck with your understanding of copyright law. LOL I totally understand it, and how it works. Especially in the YT universe. Not defensive but frustrated that you cannot grasp the concept of how the internet works and how these copyright owners really don't have the rights to stomp the crap outta anyone using their stuff. If they were all powerful like some imagine themselves to be, there'd be no fanfics, there'd be no parody, there'd be no youtube. So you can look at all their FBI warnings all you want. It's really laughable when that stuff isn't even going to survive when people can upload their stuff to a freaking watch. But you look at it. I'm bitter.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 21, 2020 11:46:50 GMT -5
I'm mostly just still wondering about the actual meat and potatoes of the process of contesting a copyright block. I understand the bells and whistles of fair use and the ideals of yet, I just don't know how to go about actually doing it. You can tell me I can all I want, but until somebody actually tells me which buttons to push on YouTube and what to say, this is all pie in the sky what-ifs and maybes. I asked how you physically operate a car and you tell me that we have the right to travel on in the interstate at any speed we want and how the cops don't have the right to stop me. That's great, but...how do I get the car out of park? What do I tell the cop once he pulls me over? Like, I've SEEN 113-The Black Scorpion on YouTube, I BELIEVE it can be done, I want to know HOW, not WHY. Upload a video. If they block it, follow the link they provide you to dispute. Go from there. Also if you don't know how to get a car out of park, I'm pretty sure speeding is the least of your worries.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 21, 2020 11:27:30 GMT -5
Your examples, frankly, don't cut it. You've only proven that people upload copyrighted works without permission to YouTube... so? That doesn't prove that they're being covered by fair use (you have yet to demonstrate that)
I've already demonstrated that. Your archaic copyright jargon that predates the internet is what doesn't cut it. My friend Rory had the video blocked and then disputed the block with the fair use accord. They put it back up. Same with the other examples I've shown. Did you want screenshots of the communications with YT? Pretty sure I can provide that too. Also not being rude by calling it out for what misinfo is. People seem to confuse so much with what YT is all about with that of the way movie studios work. Two totally different universes.
You also claim "MST3K and Shout! has never had a problem with" episodes of the show being uploaded without proper license. How do you know they have no problem with it? Unless you speak for either entity then that's merely a supposition on your part. We don't know why they haven't had all of these videos removed because we're not particularly entitled to that information.
I actually have spoken with a few peeps at Shout! so yeah, I know. I've also spoken with Dave Long over the phone and in emails. He was hired by Shout! to do those animated menus. Shout! really doesn't care what's on Youtube. The strength of the DVD sales far outweighs whatever someone uploads to YT. So yes, I actually DO know for a fact that Shout! doesn't care.
I never said that anyone needs a license to view something. To broadcast something, however, that's different and does require a license. That said...
"Did we all need licenses to sit in a living room and watch movies? No. We don't. If you got the disc, it's yours to do with what you want." Purchasing a copy of a copyrighted work is in fact a license for you to use that work for its intended purpose (your consumption of the material, in this case watching it). Here's a disclaimer from a WB Blu-ray that clarifies this: "This copyrighted product is authorized for sale or rental for private home use in the USA and Canada ONLY. Federal law provides severe civil and criminal penalties for the unauthorized distribution, reproduction, exhibition or retransmission of copyrighted motion pictures, videotapes, or videodiscs."
20th Century Fox Blu-ray: "The unauthorized reproduction or distribution of this copyright work is illegal. Criminal copyright infringement, including infringement without monetary gain, is investigated by the FBI and is punishable by..." yada yada yada.
Here's one from a Shout! MST DVD set: "For noncommercial private exhibition in homes only. Any public performance, other use or copying is strictly prohibited."
So no, you are not entitled to do whatever you want with it. By uploading an MST episode (a copyrighted work) to YouTube, it's no longer a matter of private exhibition in your home, it becomes a public performance (enabling its broadcast to people across the world), both clear violations of the agreement you made with the copyright holder when you purchased the disc. Even if you aren't making money on the distribution of the copyrighted work, you are in fact in violation of copyright law.
And all of that that you just typed out is a perfect example of misinfo and myth. Yes I am entitled to do what I want with my own discs. All of what you describe pertains to bootlegging DVDs or showings at a public venue. YT is a different beast. Already told you that. When it comes to the internet, your copyrighted stuff is not protected in any way, shape or form. All you can do is claim the copyright and have your name slapped on it as the owner. That's how it really, truly works in cyber space. Once it's public domain there's nothing illegal about uploading it, sharing it, whatever, in a legitimate setting such as YT. Also in real life too. Unless you're making money off of it, which is what your examples are referring to. There is nothing illegal about anything I said or pointed out. If there was, the dispute over uploaded stuff would not be there. It's there for a reason and Fair Use does, in fact, cover ALL of that. Your last line of "you're in violation yada-yada" but no. Actually you are incorrect. And nobody's going to court, and nobody can sue all the uploaders on YT putting this stuff up. Totally different ball game. I don't care what you heard, but I'm speaking truth.
But if you wanna see me as the villain, be my guest. I really could not care less.
Whatever you do, do NOT circulate those tapes! Unless you're a hardened criminal.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 21, 2020 2:47:45 GMT -5
And you'd be wrong. You can upload a movie or a video without taking business away from the owners. What you're saying all comes out of misinfo and myth.
There are several channels that literally feature the entire episodes of MST3K and Shout! has never had a problem with any of it.
You're just simply wrong. I already explained it and gave numerous examples. Youtube is NOT a nanny. It's literally a website that broadcasts videos. End of.
Further notes: Unlicensed use is probably something you should look up. YT is a very well equipped to deal with "unlicensed" users since they are the majority of their userbase. Meaning it's a free site. You don't need any "license" to view something. Even for free. Did we all need licenses to sit in a living room and watch movies? No. We don't. If you got the disc, it's yours to do with what you want. Copyrights only go so far. And YT is a whole other beast. If you're afraid of them, fine. But I know what's up and I choose to not live in fear.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 20, 2020 19:19:44 GMT -5
You're misunderstanding the fair use clause and equating that with those that seek to monetize the thing. You can upload a whole movie and keep it up. Please refer to the example of The Black Scorpion that Rory uploaded. That is the whole show. All of it. And if he uploaded it as the original movie sans MST3K, it would have still been the same issue. The whole shebang. A free channel is absolutely what fair use is for. There are many free movies on the YT. Here's an example of getting around nasty copyright owners by altering the video (yes in whole) to stay unblocked: King of California www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Nwg-kuiXY4I can find these all day. The uploader in that instance simply altered the whole entire picture embedded in a swirly star graphic. Rendering it altered. The whole thing is altered. Now what I would have done is put the graphic over the end credits and maybe put some sparkly graphic over the very beginning of it, and then the rest of it just as is. That would have sufficed. But it works and it's there. I can find these examples all day. And yes all of them would be examples of how people gotten around copyrights. And let me point out to you that YT does NOT remove videos for copyright infringement; they BLOCK them when someone squawks and then they give YOU, the uploader, the option to dispute it. Dispute is good. If you had something blocked and just uploaded it again, without any communication with YT, then that's on you. Dispute is there for a reason. And YT is fair about it. They really cannot control who uploads what. They're more into playing political games anyway. MST is like the last thing they're worried about.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 20, 2020 8:05:31 GMT -5
Cave Dwellers by a goddamn mile. But anybody who knows me already knows this. Alright I had to read a little too far to get to the first vote for Cave Dwellers here. Come on... I don't think it's even close. Everything about it is better than Pod People, which I think is one of the more overrated episodes of the series, tbh. It gets boring fast and the only real funny bits are when they break into Gary Numan's cars during the stop motion scene in Tommy's room and when Crow has Trumpy looking at Tommy's pets as food. There's just so much to Cave Dwellers that it holds up as well as any episode on repeat. The geometric nucleus, Jodie Foster's sister getting shot in the heart with an arrow drawing the "ah, she's in love" from Joel, the invisible cave dwellers, the scrawny villian ("it's brassy, it's sassy, a myoo-sical humdinger!"), his sorcerer ("you may call me Sandy"), the infamous hang glider scene which Tom sings to, pecs like melons and knees of fringe ("dingggggg... dong"), the extended back-story flashback (" this should have been the movie"), Thong wrestling fish out a creek - with Joel wondering what Ator is sitting on (it's weird!). I'm almost upset that these two are being put together. You gave voice to the things that really got me hooked! The hang gliding song "Ator & Me" and started to actually turn into a halfway decent song. The line; I'm not stupid like the rest of them is something I often sing nowadays. Or I mumble the line. And that line; pecs like melons and knees of fringe I commented on a youtube video a few months back. Nobody got that it was a MST reference even when I pointed that out LOL! And the line; Tolkien couldn't follow this plot is all pure gold! I also liked the movie for what it was trying to be, and as funny as Idiot Control Now is as a host segment, I have to say the after-movie segment of Joel and the bots looking like they had been through Hell outweighed the silliness of Pod People. I like Pod People, and the songs, original and riffed, but the ending was so damned cruel that I cry and I'm not supposed to do that with a comedy show! It's that kid. I hate that kid! While Ator saved whatever day back in ancient hang glider times that I prefer Cave Dwellers a lot more. As MST called the movie they featured that was really Ator l'invincibile.
Also Miles O'Keeffe. 'Nuff said.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 20, 2020 7:27:47 GMT -5
Song Title: Sara Artist: Luis Pastor
What should I do? It's getting late I'm feeling blue Why can't I think It's only one of her jokes?
But she's not in the mood for playing I can hear the sound of her crying Feeling blue
What should I do? She hasn't come I'm feeling blue I want to think That you will come at the end
But why you didn't call and tell me You don't wanna see me babe Feeling blue
Sara, you call me and tell me you love me You tell me you'll meet me You then do not show at the door
Sara, you call me and tell me you love me You're playing the same game again What do you want from me?
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 20, 2020 6:27:29 GMT -5
Here's where people get tripped up, you're not claiming a copyright. You're telling them that your video is uploaded as FAIR USE.
Sony can go ahead and claim they own the copyright. Fine. Let them. What you're disputing is that you can feature it on your channel under the Fair Use Act. It's just that simple. I've gotten videos blocked too. And every time I've had them right back to being unblocked. It's not a strike against your channel. It's simply a copyright owner is claiming the copyright and wants it blocked. But YT does NOT strike you because you failed to ask some swollen meathead permission to upload it. You don't need permission to upload something. And YT doesn't leave something blocked if you're disputing the owner with Fair Use. It exists across the board for everything.
Then when they get all "oh we own the copyright" and YT is all "oh we had to block this bla bla bla" that's when you go in and simply dispute the action of it being blocked. That's all you're doing. You're disputing the block - NOT the copyright. Okay?
Under the Fair Use Act, you can feature a movie, a video, anything as long as you are using it for the purpose of whatever falls under the Fair Use Act.
It can be for educational purposes, or anything else listed under Fair Use.
For example: My friend Rory uploaded The Black Scorpion MST Episode (which I gave to him) as it was for my blog just to pinpoint where in the episode all the dialog on the animated menu was coming from. So in that instance it really was for educational purposes. The education of how those menus were put together by Dave Long. It doesn't matter what kind of educational purpose you want it for, it can be for anything.
But rarely do we come into disputes with copyright holders. Most of the time they allow it because if they see my videos they would know it's fan-made music and parody videos. There's only been a few times where I had to dispute a block on something. And each time, I won because Fair Use is a thing. I had a block on one recently that lasted a few days, but it was unblocked with nary a word about it. In that instance it was a remix of the soundtrack I used in my Digital Soldier oath. It was more like a mash-up. So in that category I was able to dispute the block because the music was altered.
And while some copyright owners can get mean and demand YT block it, you can still dispute it based on the fact it is altered and changed in some way. Heck, throw a special effect in there somewhere. Do you have video editing software? There are just simply too many ways around pompous dickweeds that own copyrights. YT as far as I know, doesn't play favorites with owners of old outdated movies and TV shows.
Look up Fair Use. It's your friend.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 18, 2020 2:07:42 GMT -5
BTW peeps, I have talked with Rory, and once I get the time, I will send him the file for The Final Sacrifice MST Ep. And he will most definitely dispute the copyright owner and use the fair use clause. It might take a while though. Bigger files are always a pain in the ass.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 18, 2020 2:03:48 GMT -5
The deal for The Final Sacrifice is particularly strange because it isn't available on DVD, Rifftrax, and many other places, but it is still available on VHX and Google Play. I guess the contract was longer than seven years for those specific platforms. It's also available here in 2 parts: The Final Sacrifice www.dailymotion.com/video/x5g3ahg (first half) www.dailymotion.com/video/x5g3ane (second half) And the copyright owner cannot say a thing about dailymotion as they do host everything on the premise of Fair Use. That's stated up front iirc.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 18, 2020 1:55:39 GMT -5
Does it matter in this case that Godzilla versus the Sea Monster was used illegally on the show in the first place? I... actually had not heard that yet. Huh. Thanks. I believe the distinction is less "they were profiting off of my work" and more "they were robbing me of profits by making my work available for nothing" in that case. Available for nothing is exactly what fair use is. And in the YT world, that is most definitely allowed. If the channel isn't monetized, they can't scream about something being available for nothing as nobody is robbing profits from the guy since his product isn't available through any source or company or himself. Dispute it. As bad as YT is, and the crap they're up to, they really don't care about that filmmaker from Canada. So if he squawks, he'll be screaming into a void. Check: His product as seen through the altered version of the MST3K treatment is NOT his product. Parody, remixed, mash-ups, educational purpose, ALL of those things are under the fair use act. And definitely legal to host on a social media site like youtube.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 18, 2020 1:50:13 GMT -5
But you can challenge them. Fair Use is international and the worst that would happen is that it's blocked in the country where Toho sits. But YT is US based and Toho can go eat a bag of dickweeds. Does it matter in this case that Godzilla versus the Sea Monster was used illegally on the show in the first place? To be honest, I don't get this. What's preventing Shout from uploading (not to make money on) the episodes for which they cannot license the original movies? Exactly. It didn't used to, at least for a whole lot of room, but YT now has a way to dispute these things, and you can actually fill it out and explain that it was a bootleg copy to begin with used by the then-TV station that hosted it. Which means that it most definitely falls under fair use. I know a LOT about this because for years I've hunted down all kinds of gems from movies to music to some very obscure clips. For instance, all those bootleg copies of some ABBA songs that have never been officially released, have no copyright owner. Nope. Because they were never officially released. A copyright cannot be claimed if the product was never sold.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 16, 2020 20:30:18 GMT -5
I recently had 213-Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster pulled mostly down off YouTube by Toho who not only claimed the movie but also most of host segments. I'm not sure if disputing fair use would get me anything other than a copyright strike with them. Toho especially is a corporation I wouldn't challenge. But you can challenge them. Fair Use is international and the worst that would happen is that it's blocked in the country where Toho sits. But YT is US based and Toho can go eat a bag of dickweeds.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 16, 2020 20:21:19 GMT -5
I recently had 213-Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster pulled mostly down off YouTube by Toho who not only claimed the movie but also most of host segments. I'm not sure if disputing fair use would get me anything other than a copyright strike with them. Okay here's how it works, when you dispute a copyright in the instance you want your video put back up, that's all you're disputing is to be able to put it back up or the block taken off of it. You're not claiming to own the copyright. YT actually has a list of criteria for which you would dispute an action. It's only a strike if you dispute that you own the thing. So don't say you own that. But Fair Use can be for any number of things. When it comes to MST3K which is a popular TV series about all these movies that have already since been aired decades ago, the whole Fair Use for educational purposes comes into play since MST3K episodes can be featured as educational towards how TV shows last century were made. You can use any criteria within the fair use clause. You can also dispute it based on the fact it's the property of MST3K because it is altered, by the TV show producers and writers themselves. So that movie and sound therein have already been altered to that degree that it is NOT the original but a legitimate copy done on a TV show that featured it. A friend of mine, Rory Paige, had put the episode The Black Scorpion on his channel. Of course I sent him the file I ripped from my own DVD of it but he had the same deal where the copyright owners tried to have it blocked. He disputed it and told them it wasn't the original movie and it was uploaded by the Fair Use Act. YT took the block off and there the episode sits. Anyone can see it. He also uploaded a few other gems. Another friend, Loren Bopeppy, uploaded all the menus I ripped from my discs and sent to him. Of course nobody said anything because Dave Long who created the menus is a really cool guy and loves that we did all of this. And Shout Factory has never caused any grief over anyone featuring MST3K. It's a shame that very few people know that YT can put something back up if you dispute the blocking of a video from an old TV show. Or an old movie. Because you as the uploader, did have the right to feature something based on all the criteria that Fair Use permits.
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