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Post by ijon on Jan 13, 2006 22:28:55 GMT -5
Doc, in what sense exactly are you using the term "liberal." Like all political labels, its precise implications have differed a lot in both time and space. Burgess after all comes from a British background with a subtly different political landscape.
As a starter, Merriam-Webster Online gives these: b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties
But since I haven't seen Straw Dogs I can't really vote anyway.
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Post by ijon on Jan 14, 2006 4:25:43 GMT -5
OK, I'd have to select Clockwork Orange over Dirty harry then, specifically because the morality of it is "muddier." I always prefer a message movie to give the opposing view a fair presentation even if ultimately rejecting it. Straw men annoy me if I agree with their position and leave me unmoved if I don't. I actually haven't seen Dirty Harry for several years (he's so like my dad it's a little scary!) and probably should before committing myself.
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Post by Chuck on Jan 14, 2006 8:43:59 GMT -5
e.e. cummings wrote: "there's a hell of a universe next door; let's go."
That's a great way to look at books and films.
I saw Straw Dogs as a parable about civilized man regressing.
I saw Dirty Harry as one individual fighting for justice as best he can through the muck and mire of "civilized" society.
I saw Clockwork Orange (originally in Cinerama) as a social satire. Liberalism led to this end.
Did anyone else see Clockwork Orange in Cinerama? It really had a bigger kick than when I saw it on a conventional screen.
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Post by losingmydignity on Jan 14, 2006 15:56:33 GMT -5
But Forrest these film can be read in an entirely way too.
For example, Straw Dogs could be read as the lack of response on the part of the left to violence inflicted on it that period of time (Chicago riots, Kent State, etc.)
I think Siegel was a die hard conservative though, wasn't he?
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Post by losingmydignity on Jan 14, 2006 17:24:11 GMT -5
But Forrest these film can be read in an entirely way too. For example, Straw Dogs could be read as the lack of response on the part of the left to violence inflicted on it that period of time (Chicago riots, Kent State, etc.) . Well, I don't see how a film can be pro or anti anything really though surely I've used the phrase myself I guess I meant it could be take as a critique of the new left's inabilty to deal with violence....some times you have to stand up for yourself, or how such a passive stance can bring on violence. It's quite complicated and that's why I like it. I don't think you can boil it down to anti anything...
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Post by Chuck on Jan 14, 2006 17:37:30 GMT -5
I saw Clockwork Orange (originally in Cinerama) as a social satire. Liberalism led to this end. Did anyone else see Clockwork Orange in Cinerama? It really had a bigger kick than when I saw it on a conventional screen. Really? I don't see how it could have been shown in cinerama, because it's aspect ratio is 1.66:1. Are you sure you saw it in cinerama? That would be awesome, but wouldn't the image be severely distorted? It was in Cinerama. So was 2001. There were two prints of 2001 released on DVD. One had the 1:66 aspect ratio, which was the Cinemascope print. They subsequently released, and I bought, the collector's edition of the original 70mm print, with a 70mm cell from the film included. I thought they had released a Clockwork Orange special edition as well.
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Post by Chuck on Jan 14, 2006 17:49:55 GMT -5
Okay, I just checked, Doc, and the special edition is 1.66. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Maybe the drugs were really good back then.
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Post by Shep on Jan 14, 2006 21:36:06 GMT -5
Granted A Clockwork Orange isn't exactly "anti-liberal" - it's really an attack on liberal politics AND authoritarian far Right politics. Yes, "Clockwork" certainly showed both sides were ripe for satire. ("O Lucky Man" did this pretty well, too.) These are all great films, but ACO is one of my all-time faves.
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Post by ijon on Jan 15, 2006 18:47:27 GMT -5
Okay, I just checked, Doc, and the special edition is 1.66. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe the drugs were really good back then. Be a good boy and finish your milk.
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Post by Chuck on Jan 16, 2006 9:01:26 GMT -5
Okay, I just checked, Doc, and the special edition is 1.66. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe the drugs were really good back then. Be a good boy and finish your milk. I'm saving my milk for another chocolate chip cookie.
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Post by ijon on Jan 16, 2006 18:32:23 GMT -5
Be a good boy and finish your milk. I'm saving my milk for another chocolate chip cookie. Oh, well, if you're having it with cookies go with the synthmesc milk. The vellocet leaves a funny aftertaste and the drencrom makes you beat up the Keebler elves.
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