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Post by Ratso on Jun 1, 2006 18:39:47 GMT -5
Lando would have been a horrible Two Face anyway.
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Jun 2, 2006 2:05:25 GMT -5
In the Tim Burton films, Burton's style is one that nearly always causes the main character to be mysterious. As such, we don't really get to see Batman doing much of his detective work so much as we see the end-results of his detective work, while the bigger mystery is Batman himself. That's probably why I prefer the Burton films, actually. Which I can understand, believe me, but it makes the character too different for my taste. He's more like The Punisher with fashion sense and a brain in Burton's rendition. Not that the market couldn't use a few Punishers with fashion senses and brains, I'd just prefer to see it as a film without the word "Batman" in the title.
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Post by mightyjack on Jun 2, 2006 2:13:49 GMT -5
-it's like when I saw the Japanese man crying after seeing the American version of Godzilla, It's funny but the guy had actual tears because we screwed up his nations monster.
And I agree, Ours wasn't a Godzilla flick, it was a giant fast lizard movie, not a Godzilla flick.
Likewise - Burton got the mask and the name, but he didn't nail the character. If he'd have called it "Pointy Eared Dude" I might have liked it better. But what's the point of making a Batman film if you don't do the character? It be like, Lets make James Bond, but lets put him in a dress and make him afraid of women - it might be a good movie but it wouldn't be Bond.
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Jun 2, 2006 10:09:31 GMT -5
It's the different takes on Batman that frustrates fans, though. Everyone has their own interpretation abuot what Batman *should* be, but there's an unmistakable, though hard to define, status quo that shouldn't be trifled with.
Case in point: Some people regard Frank Miller's Batman stories set in the future as some of the greatest Batman stories ever. Others seem to think that Frank was simply engaging in Mary Sue fanfiction with himself in mind as the main character, and ruining Selena Kyle's backstory forever. Others fall somewhere in between (I fall in between, but I lean towards the crowd who doesn't like it.)
Part of why The Animated Series and Batman Begins got things right was that they combined some of the best elements. Batman would appear ruthless and near insane when dealing with certain criminals to scare them, but he'd still engage in witty Adam West-ish banter with Alfred and his other friends. And good Heavens, the Joker from the Animated Series may be the only interpretation of the Joker that I've ever been totally happy with, they nailed him so perfectly.
But considering that, it's safe to say that Burton's fell further from the bulls-eye than Begins. Maybe he got it better than a few of the hack comic writers, but it still wasn't the best treatment he could've given it.
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Post by mightyjack on Jun 2, 2006 15:37:05 GMT -5
Very well said Afgncaap.
It's like the first Mr. Freeze story in the animated series, it was almost beautiful, lyrical and sad. They absolutely understood the character - Arnolds take was crude, campy... and yes, if the writer wants to have the character be that way, fine, it might even work (Though i didn't) but they lost an opportunity to tell a truly great story with a villain that had some depth.
Oh, and if the next movie has Bat-Mite in it, I think I'd puke. ;D
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Jun 2, 2006 22:10:57 GMT -5
As will I.
Although, I've always enjoyed the "Bat-Mite Vs. Mr. Mxylzptlk" issue of "The World's Finest."
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Post by Ratso on Jun 3, 2006 1:44:09 GMT -5
. Afterall, his very first appearence in comics I've heard was more campy than serious, in fact. The first year of Batman was kind of dark, but once Robin came into the picture it got "campy" I just finished reading Batman Archives Volume 2 and in that book Batman makes a lot of bad puns, and one issue he would not let Robin fight crime because it was a "school night". And so when they wanted to make the 60's Batman show the producer William Dozier figured the only way they would make this show work was if they "over did it" so it would be funny for adults and cool for kids. Batman did not get dark again till the 70's.
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Post by Ratso on Jun 3, 2006 13:21:40 GMT -5
No the Adam West film was.
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donmac
Moderator Emeritus
Beedee Beedee Beedee This Sucks!
Posts: 1,290
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Post by donmac on Jun 3, 2006 16:11:59 GMT -5
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm was not only excellently acted by it's main characters, but it (if you look close enough) served as a prototype for Batman Begins. Remember when Bruce was dressed in the black ski-mask with the original belt and no real bat-suit? The same situation happens in B:MotP when he assaults a group of hoodlums robbing a local shipping area! Actually, the inspiration for that scene in both movies is this: Batman: Year One by Frank Miller (writing) and David Mazucchelli (artwork)
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Jun 3, 2006 19:05:14 GMT -5
Year One was pretty good, although I don't care for what it did to Catwoman's backstory. Then again, Frank Miller may have some mental problem that made it unavoidable. I'll just plug www.shortpacked.com and be on my merry way. One thing about Year One that I liked was in a scene that also showed up in the movie, where Batman summons those Bats as a distraction. When that happened in Batman Begins, did it confuse anyone? I'd read Year One so I knew exactly what was happening and how he was doing it, but I could see how it might look like it was just coming out of the blue in the film.
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Post by FredC on Jun 3, 2006 22:32:30 GMT -5
Batman Begins is a better film than Tim Burtons Batman, which was an okay adaption, but wasn't really Batman. It was just Tim Burton's Batman. Begins was a very good movie, I just don't like seeing origins in superhero films (cuz i've read them/know them), so it lost something there.
Personal favorite Batman movie would have to be Mask of the Phantasm. It's just perfect, even though it too has his Origin, it makes shorter work of it.
Also: I loved Batman Year One.
Afgn, have you read Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum? If not, check it out, it's a really good read.
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Post by mightyjack on Jun 4, 2006 3:17:46 GMT -5
I see Ratso mention the more campy Batman stories and there's much talk about Millers take...
I'd highly recommend moving to the 70's and checking out Neal Adams ground breaking work. Man he drew an incredible Batman, and for us who first discovered them, it was jaw dropping awesome. The Dark Knight had returned and remains as such even to this day.
Adams (and master inker, Dick Gordiano) with writer Dennis O'Neal - had a real impact on bringing back to life a dying character who'd become a joke in the 60's.
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Post by FredC on Jun 4, 2006 9:54:56 GMT -5
I see Ratso mention the more campy Batman stories and there's much talk about Millers take... I'd highly recommend moving to the 70's and checking out Neal Adams ground breaking work. Man he drew an incredible Batman, and for us who first discovered them, it was jaw dropping awesome. The Dark Knight had returned and remains as such even to this day. Adams (and master inker, Dick Gordiano) with writer Dennis O'Neal - had a real impact on bringing back to life a dying character who'd become a joke in the 60's. Ooh, good point. Alot of people (including me, here) forget about Neal Adams' Batman. That was a batman that I think truly captured the detective, wheras Miller captures Batman as the Dark Knight. There are too many ways to write Batman!!!
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Jun 4, 2006 20:38:07 GMT -5
If I ever write Batman....which won't happen, but which I also won't rule out entirely....he'll be a Detective at home and to his "friends" and associates, but a Dark Knight when he's on the job.
Sort of a "game face/no game face" take.
And yeah, I've read Arkham Asylum, and I liked it. I didn't care for how incredibly stylized some of the art was (or some of the lettering....it took me a couple of tries to read some of Joker's dialogue balloons), but aside from that I think it was good. The message of the eccentricities of the heroes and villains being the thing that kept them from being truly insane, with Harvey Dent's innability to function with his deck of cards instead of a coin really seemed appropriate. Helped me to appreciate my own weirdness more.
Although, I think that "Mad Love" may have been my all-time favorite graphic novel. It differed from Arkham Asylum by positing that we can define ourselves by choosing our insanities rather than letting that which defines us keep us sane.
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