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Post by Wild Rebel on Feb 15, 2007 17:26:36 GMT -5
I will never understand people's insistance that they go after only 'bad' movies. MST3K went after bad movies. Rifftrax simply goes after movies. They are not the same, nor should they be. I'm glad to see the good, the bad, and the ugly all get evenly riffed. Rebel, if I can take LOTR getting riffed, then you can deal with ST:VI. I agree.. I remember seeing this in the theaters with my dad (who was a huge Star Trek fan) when it first came out. I really liked the movie, but I also liked seeing it from another perspective. lol I also found the jokes really weren't making fun of the movie per say.. Just the outlandish characters.. (and accents lol) Okay....I can understand that. I'll even admit that I've riffed Star Trek: First Contact in my head when I got past my 20th viewing or so.... I just feel that there are so many other movies that deserve riffing before movies like this one.
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Post by CBG on Feb 15, 2007 17:32:19 GMT -5
"Riff 'em all...let God sort 'em out."
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Feb 15, 2007 19:49:03 GMT -5
I personally like the fact that they're riffing on good movies. Heck, how many times has someone come to the defense of the MST3K movies that weren't quite that bad?
If I watch Mike riff on Episode One then I'll be laughing at the movie with Mike. If I watch Mike riff on Episode Four, then I'll be watching the movie with Mike. Both very enjoyable experiences, I'm sure.
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Post by Famous Mortimer on Feb 17, 2007 9:21:52 GMT -5
It seems a simple question of logic, which I keep reiterating. Good films have less to riff, purely because they're good. If you watch a poopiety film, you don't mind a comedian cracking wise all over it, but a good film sorta demands a level of concentration from you and a commentary gets in the way.
I love "Roadhouse", for example, but know it's a silly film when it comes down to it. "Star Wars" (ep.4), on the other hand, is one of the most enjoyable films ever and there's really not a great amount of jokes you can make about it. Especially taking into account we're not exactly short of crappy films to riff on, and Mike shouldn't have to touch the classics for years, if ever.
"How do you decide which ones they are?", I hear myself ask. Easiest way is looking at it the other way round. Aside from "Halloween" I don't think there've been many people who defended any of his choices as being great movies, there's more consensus over what's at the bottom of the pile than what's at the top, I reckon.
re: Afgncaap's comments above- you make sense but I'm not sure the hookline "we don't make movies, we make fun of them" would fit in with that. Wouldn't you get annoyed if Mike mocked one of your favourite parts of the movie?
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Post by Captain Hygiene on Feb 17, 2007 12:05:36 GMT -5
It seems a simple question of logic, which I keep reiterating. Good films have less to riff, purely because they're good. I disagree with this. I just think they have less *easy* material to riff. It's certainly possible to riff a good film using dialogue- and scene-related riffing, it just takes a bit more effort than going for a cheap, ineptly-made film. I love "Roadhouse", for example, but know it's a silly film when it comes down to it. "Star Wars" (ep.4), on the other hand, is one of the most enjoyable films ever and there's really not a great amount of jokes you can make about it. I love "Star Wars" episode 4 as well, but there are sooo many things to joke about in it. The 70's look and feel of the movie, the hokey dialogue (if you think about it seriously, it's not epic quality, it's just fun), and the special effects all would lend themselves to good riffing.
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Post by gbeenie on Feb 17, 2007 14:43:06 GMT -5
Ya know, Mortimer, I'm really starting to think that your problem is that you're terribly thin-skinned about your own personal preferences in movies; and, rather than trying to toughen up a bit mentally, you've decided the best course of action is to try and convince other people to be as thin-skinned and overly sensitive about their tastes as you appear to be.
I'll tell you right now, such a tactic is pretty much doomed to failure, especially with me. I learned many years ago not to rely on affirmation from others to justify my tastes (if you saw my music collection, you'd understand that this was necessary for my survival), and Mike and the gang are no exception. The most effect they can have on me is to give me the ability to view certain movies from a perspective I hadn't considered; that's a GOOD thing. Example: as much as I enjoyed The Grudge the first time I saw it, I can't watch it at all now without finding it completely hilarious. Mike and Kevin didn't ruin the movie for me; they enabled me to see how ludicrous large sections of it are, and I'm a better viewer for it. Another example is The Matrix. This is one of my favorite movies of the last ten years; it handled the sci-fi/action combo better than any movie since Aliens, as far as I'm concerned. That said, I laughed my ASS off during the entire RiffTrax of the movie. Why? Because it's FUNNY. As much as I like The Matrix for its deft mixture of sci-fi, action and interesting cinematography, the film's "philosophical" underpinnings and borderline religiosity are a crashing bore which have always bothered me, and leave it to Mike and Kevin to zero in on that and mine comedy gold from it. Their joking doesn't diminish my love for the movie ONE BIT. The fact is, EVERY movie, no matter how good, has things in it that are worthy of humorous observation. The way in way in which a person TRULY loves (or likes, or appreciates; however you prefer to phrase it) something is not to place it atop a pedestal on high and fix it with your adoring, unblinking gaze (that's not love: that's idolatry), but instead to understand it, with all of its flaws and imperfections, and love it anyway. To wit: your ridiculous example of Star Wars (the original). I was all but RAISED by those original Star Wars movies; they are part of my psyche, and have at least a little to do with who I am as an adult. However, nowadays most people won't watch them with me. Why? Because I cannot stop cracking jokes the ENTIRE movie. Is it because I don't love those films anymore? Certainly not; if anything, I love them MORE now, if only because they serve as a shining example of a time when George Lucas knew what the hell he was doing. I joke on them because they're lifelong friends; because they say and do things I find funny and can't help but respond to. That's what love is: sharing good times those you love.
I get that you don't care for it when Mike and the gang Riff on movies you like, Mortimer. Really I do. That's your opinion, and I respect your right to have it, and to express it whenever you deem appropriate. However, when you start in on how the RiffTrax crew is somehow "betraying" the spirit of MST3K by going after bigger targets, that's where I've gotta step in and put things right. If you read any interviews with the MST3K folks from back in the day, you'd know they said repeatedly that they'd love to give the business to bigger films, but it that it wasn't financially feasible. Now that that's not a barrier, I for one am DELIGHTED that they're Riffing on more mainstream pictures. Maybe instead of constantly expressing your shock, rage and indignation that not everyone here agrees with your rather negative assessment of RiffTrax's approach, you might consider looking inward at why it is you have such a problem with it.
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Post by Hugh Beaumont on Feb 17, 2007 15:21:14 GMT -5
It seems a simple question of logic, which I keep reiterating. Good films have less to riff, purely because they're good. I disagree with this. I just think they have less *easy* material to riff. It's certainly possible to riff a good film using dialogue- and scene-related riffing, it just takes a bit more effort than going for a cheap, ineptly-made film. You know, I'll go one further: Sometimes I don't even think there's a lack of easy material in good movies. Something like Lord Of The Rings, I think they're some of the greatest films ever made, absolutely brilliantly done. And yet, I think there's virtually no end of potential riffing material. I honestly think it's just plain subjective. Some movies "have it" and some don't, both the good and the bad. I love "Roadhouse", for example, but know it's a silly film when it comes down to it. "Star Wars" (ep.4), on the other hand, is one of the most enjoyable films ever and there's really not a great amount of jokes you can make about it. I love "Star Wars" episode 4 as well, but there are sooo many things to joke about in it. The 70's look and feel of the movie, the hokey dialogue (if you think about it seriously, it's not epic quality, it's just fun), and the special effects all would lend themselves to good riffing. Again, I have to invoke the subjective argument. I love the original Star Wars trilogy and, honestly, I have a considerably difficult time riffing it. It's just not something that I can make myself do. I don't know if it's psychological or if I really just don't find there to be good material for it. It's just really difficult and it even feels a little wrong. I'm not sure I'd really even enjoy a Rifftrax of it. But again, Lord Of The Rings, even older classics (can't think of any examples), I feel they can be done and done well. Basically, some movies just work and some don't and, often, it has to do with the person's personal preferences. The end.
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Post by Famous Mortimer on Feb 18, 2007 14:24:52 GMT -5
Ya know, Mortimer, I'm really starting to think that your problem is that you're terribly thin-skinned about your own personal preferences in movies; and, rather than trying to toughen up a bit mentally, you've decided the best course of action is to try and convince other people to be as thin-skinned and overly sensitive about their tastes as you appear to be. Ah, an unfounded criticism based on zero evidence. I love them. You have no idea what my favourite films are because I've mentioned about five of them on this board, and they aren't representative of what I like generally. I'll learn to live without your approval for my opinions, I hope. Jolly good. No you don't, as the tone of your comments in this and other threads have proved. I've said nothing of the sort. Please point out where I say Rifftrax is betraying the spirit of MST3K, either explicitly or implicitly. In fact, the majority of my posts in this sub-forum about it have been positive. You know what? Some critics are now saying that there's a difference, occasionally, between mainstream and good. I'm perfectly happy that they're doing more mainstream films, and am well aware it's the only choice that makes sense with their business model. Project much? Gotta love people who use the word "constantly" in net arguments. I made it clear as recently as my last post that the only film I'm surprised they took on, given its "classic" status, is "Halloween", and the riffing on that one was excellent. Hugh's post makes a lot of sense. Looking at it in "bad" and "good" is possibly slightly the wrong way round, "riff-rich" and riff-poor" might be a better way of doing it. It's not like this is even an issue, as I've not really disagreed with any of their choices so far, at least before the event. I've thought some of the riffs didn't work for a variety of reasons, and have expressed that view here and elsewhere. Mike has been responsible as head writer, and as on screen performer, for some of my favourite comedy moments ever, and with MST3K episodes like "Manos" and commentaries like the "Plan 9" and "Roadhouse" one that are the rival of any comedy produced in the last 20 years. But he's also stiffed a few times. Should I not mention those?
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Post by Shaggy on Feb 28, 2007 22:24:20 GMT -5
I'm just waiting for them to riff The Motion Picture or at least Generations. I was a little surprised they went with VI, but as a fan of ST and rifftrax, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
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Post by Don Quixote on Feb 28, 2007 23:05:13 GMT -5
No no, they NEED to rip on Insurrection. By God, that movie deserves it.
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Post by Shaggy on Feb 28, 2007 23:06:28 GMT -5
Yeah I could see Insurrection. It felt like a season TNG 5 episode more than a movie.
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