TOO Much Pop Culture...

[vanhagar3000]

I disagree about them being too pop cultury now. I think we're just a little skewered because we've been watching episodes from almost a decade ago until now. During the SciFi era they did more topical riffs, and even in the Comedy Central they did a few. In fact, I didn't like the no current events rule, because as long it's not too many, an episode will not be dated and you shouldn't waste a good joke. Since everything is so obscure anyway, why not throw in something topical? Then in ten years it won't be dated, just obscure.

I think they stopped because they made a few too many ones that weren't general enough and went obscure too fast. Roseanne's national anthem rendition and a jab at the HA! Network are two from season two I remember. Funny thing is by the time the HA! referenced aired they'd already announced it was merging with the Comedy Channel! The biggest factor seems to be the Roland Gift references in season one that they would mention from time to time in later episodes (Space Mutiny) and Kevin brought up in the Rhino interview. As long as they limit themselves they should be fine. If they do get a bit heavy, they should be general and not specific. I'll admit there is a bit more than usual, but that's one of the differences I like between RiffTrax and MST3K. I can accept it.

I'm just glad they have SOME references to pop culture. My biggest problem with RIffTrax is the reliance on the generic "this movie sucks" comments. After a while, it loses it's effect. What's great about Manos is it's the only movie where the Mads apologized. If the started apologizing for every movie for a joke, it would lose it's meaning. Plus they become repetative and it's uncreative. RiffTrax Cuts proves that half the riffs are interchangable.

[Hugh Beaumont]

I guess I just don't find references to pop culture and current events funny, in the context of riffing.

I do agree with your last paragraph though, VH. While I haven't watched many full Rifftrax, what I've seen has been fairly dull and repetitive, in places. And if I can get that impression from primarily watching clips, that's a bad sign. I support them fully, but I'm not sure I understand how the series is quite as popular as it is.

[pslowner]

rexdarteskimospy said:

I guess I just don't find references to pop culture and current events funny, in the context of riffing.

I do agree with your last paragraph though, VH. While I haven't watched many full Rifftrax, what I've seen has been fairly dull and repetitive, in places. And if I can get that impression from primarily watching clips, that's a bad sign. I support them fully, but I'm not sure I understand how the series is quite as popular as it is.

Wow, you dont like Rifftrax. I have never read that in any of your posts before........

[Hugh Beaumont]

pslowner said:

rexdarteskimospy said:

I guess I just don't find references to pop culture and current events funny, in the context of riffing.

I do agree with your last paragraph though, VH. While I haven't watched many full Rifftrax, what I've seen has been fairly dull and repetitive, in places. And if I can get that impression from primarily watching clips, that's a bad sign. I support them fully, but I'm not sure I understand how the series is quite as popular as it is.

Wow, you dont like Rifftrax. I have never read that in any of your posts before........

No, it's not that I don't like it. I do like it. I support the project fully. I just don't think the quality is as good as it could or should be. I hold the same opinion about seasons 8-10 of MST3K. The riffing's just not that sharp or well-delivered, generally speaking. I'm not really a fan, but that doesn't mean I hate it. There are bright spots, and it's still quite worth it. I just have my criticisms.

[pslowner]

rexdarteskimospy said:

pslowner said:

Wow, you dont like Rifftrax. I have never read that in any of your posts before........

No, it's not that I don't like it. I do like it. I support the project fully. I just don't think the quality is as good as it could or should be. I hold the same opinion about seasons 8-10 of MST3K. The riffing's just not that sharp or well-delivered, generally speaking. I'm not really a fan, but that doesn't mean I hate it. There are bright spots, and it's still quite worth it. I just have my criticisms.

I know, I was just "messin'" with ya.

[BEERxTaco]

rexdarteskimospy said:

I hold the same opinion about seasons 8-10 of MST3K. The riffing's just not that sharp or well-delivered, generally speaking. I'm not really a fan, but that doesn't mean I hate it. There are bright spots, and it's still quite worth it. I just have my criticisms.

Wow, we agree on something! ;D

[Hugh Beaumont]

pslowner said:

rexdarteskimospy said:

No, it's not that I don't like it. I do like it. I support the project fully. I just don't think the quality is as good as it could or should be. I hold the same opinion about seasons 8-10 of MST3K. The riffing's just not that sharp or well-delivered, generally speaking. I'm not really a fan, but that doesn't mean I hate it. There are bright spots, and it's still quite worth it. I just have my criticisms.

I know, I was just "messin'" with ya.

I know, I just felt the need to clarify anyway. I don't want to be misinterpreted.

[vanhagar3000]

rexdarteskimospy said:

pslowner said:

Wow, you dont like Rifftrax. I have never read that in any of your posts before........

No, it's not that I don't like it. I do like it. I support the project fully. I just don't think the quality is as good as it could or should be. I hold the same opinion about seasons 8-10 of MST3K. The riffing's just not that sharp or well-delivered, generally speaking. I'm not really a fan, but that doesn't mean I hate it. There are bright spots, and it's still quite worth it. I just have my criticisms.

I agree with Hugh! I agree with Hugh? That's a first!

Why are there four guys on horses outside my window throwing fire and brimstone? Where the hell do you get brimstone these days anyway?

Anyway, I guess it all depends on tastes. My favorite part has always been the vast array of pop culture references. Which I think we can all agree is a big factor in why MST succeded. And like I said: topical joke today is the obscure joke of tomorrow. Obscure pop culture slowly decreased from season four (it;s high point) until season eight, and then to RiffTrax, but I think there's an obvious reason.

Notice how when Joel left, the amount of obscurities went down, when Frank left, it went down even a little more, and when Trace left, it went down a ton? Now Mary Jo's off to CT, there is even less! Paul's at MST3K though looking at the Flash sketches I see nothing but absurdist humor and fart jokes from him now. (the fart jokes thing is a compliment, he made sure the fart jokes on MST had CLASS...to the ass). When the first show went off the air, I just assumed that everyone brought a ton of pop culture to the table, and it was just a factor of one writer meant a lot of ideas gone. But now I'm not so sure.

Not to try and paint them as snobs, but Mike, Kevin, and Bill don't seem like the pop culture junkies the way Joel, Trace, and Frank seem to be. Joel was referencing Godzilla vs. Megalon in 1984, he was a bad movie pop culture fan from the beginning. Trace knows his pop culture. Frank volunteered to be the movie screener and is noted for a vast array of film and TV knowledge in the ACEG. That's around the time obscure pop culture riffing took it's biggest hit. Mike's a noted Shakespeare boy. Kevin's an admitted snob. Bill got his start in the theater. Sure they have the knowledge of the basics/classics like Kane and Road House. But even the Simpsons reference Citizen Kane and they're a super high profile show who had a movie out last summer. But the key is those jokes that make you go "How did those guys know that? I was thinking that!" The ones you wont't hear on the Simpsons, Family Guy, or even the Daily Show. I think that's the best riff you can get, but I really haven't had any in viewing a couple of RiffTrax and Film Crews. I hope to during the CT experiments.

I also hope, now that I'm kinda thinking this way, CT doesn't end up lacking from the other end. Maybe they all just really need each other to balance one another out.

[pslowner]

rexdarteskimospy said:

pslowner said:

I know, I was just "messin'" with ya.

I know, I just felt the need to clarify anyway. I don't want to be misinterpreted.

Hey, quit stealing songs by the Animals ("Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood")

[Hugh Beaumont]

vanhagar3000 said:

rexdarteskimospy said:

No, it's not that I don't like it. I do like it. I support the project fully. I just don't think the quality is as good as it could or should be. I hold the same opinion about seasons 8-10 of MST3K. The riffing's just not that sharp or well-delivered, generally speaking. I'm not really a fan, but that doesn't mean I hate it. There are bright spots, and it's still quite worth it. I just have my criticisms.

I agree with Hugh! I agree with Hugh? That's a first!

Hey, I think we agreed in the WGA strike thread.

Anyway, I guess it all depends on tastes. My favorite part has always been the vast array of pop culture references. Which I think we can all agree is a big factor in why MST succeded. And like I said: topical joke today is the obscure joke of tomorrow. Obscure pop culture slowly decreased from season four (it;s high point) until season eight, and then to RiffTrax, but I think there's an obvious reason.

Notice how when Joel left, the amount of obscurities went down, when Frank left, it went down even a little more, and when Trace left, it went down a ton? Now Mary Jo's off to CT, there is even less! Paul's at MST3K though looking at the Flash sketches I see nothing but absurdist humor and fart jokes from him now. (the fart jokes thing is a compliment, he made sure the fart jokes on MST had CLASS...to the ass). When the first show went off the air, I just assumed that everyone brought a ton of pop culture to the table, and it was just a factor of one writer meant a lot of ideas gone. But now I'm not so sure.

Not to try and paint them as snobs, but Mike, Kevin, and Bill don't seem like the pop culture junkies the way Joel, Trace, and Frank seem to be. Joel was referencing Godzilla vs. Megalon in 1984, he was a bad movie pop culture fan from the beginning. Trace knows his pop culture. Frank volunteered to be the movie screener and is noted for a vast array of film and TV knowledge in the ACEG. That's around the time obscure pop culture riffing took it's biggest hit. Mike's a noted Shakespeare boy. Kevin's an admitted snob. Bill got his start in the theater. Sure they have the knowledge of the basics/classics like Kane and Road House. But even the Simpsons reference Citizen Kane and they're a super high profile show who had a movie out last summer. But the key is those jokes that make you go "How did those guys know that? I was thinking that!" The ones you wont't hear on the Simpsons, Family Guy, or even the Daily Show. I think that's the best riff you can get, but I really haven't had any in viewing a couple of RiffTrax and Film Crews. I hope to during the CT experiments.

It always seems to me like they (Mike, Kevin, Bill) are writing for a specific audience. It's like they're throwing in humor that their current fans seem to like and not much else. Either that, or the three of them just start playing to each other, which doesn't seem to work as well as it did on MST, for some reason. I know I'm probably way off, but that's just how it seems to me. I can't count how many casual MST fans - people who clearly love the series and have thoroughly enjoyed it, even though they may not be hardcore, message board-reading MSTies - have responded negatively to Rifftrax, after sampling it. It's not as sharp or immediately funny, is what they seem to say. It doesn't grab them, as MST once did. I know that's an unfair comparison, but it does seem to suggest that something's amiss. I mean, it should still hold some of the appeal, even to the casual. Right? We can't just be a few crabby misfits, can we?

I also hope, now that I'm kinda thinking this way, CT doesn't end up lacking from the other end. Maybe they all just really need each other to balance one another out.

Like I've said before, I don't think they'll ever be great on their own. Good, but not great. They all need each other. MST3K was incredible because of the entire writing team, not any one person, or two or three people. Joel/Mike, Josh/Kevin, and Trace/Bill didn't write all their own riffs, remember. I certainly have higher expectations for CT, for that very reason - five writers, instead of just three.

[BathTub]

Well as mentioned before, Mike, Kevin and Bill have never been the only writers at RiffTrax.

[Hugh Beaumont]

bathtub said:

Well as mentioned before, Mike, Kevin and Bill have never been the only writers at RiffTrax.

I've never read that before. Interesting.

[vanhagar3000]

See I'm not the only who thought they were the only writers. Hugh and I agree for a third time! Are we in a time warp or something? Why am I suddenly made out of wood and in a pinewood glen?

I honestly am beginning to think certain writers brought certain aspects to the table. Everyone always praises Mike the most, but on his own he kinda flounders (IMO). I'm just holding hope that Joel's that little intagable that could put everything back together. Remember this whole entire riffing thing is essentially his baby.

[BathTub]

DisembAudio is a writer, but there have been, and are, others

[Hugh Beaumont]

vanhagar3000 said:

I honestly am beginning to think certain writers brought certain aspects to the table. Everyone always praises Mike the most, but on his own he kinda flounders (IMO). I'm just holding hope that Joel's that little intagable that could put everything back together. Remember this whole entire riffing thing is essentially his baby.

I've always felt that Joel was better at creating and imagining, than actually doing the riffing. He had a lot of great ideas and did a lot of great things, but I've never been convinced that he was the driving comedic force behind the show. I've always believed that Mike and Trace (possibly Frank, too) were the series' key players when it came to actually putting funny dialogue on the screen, personally. But that's just me. Could be wrong.