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Post by mightyjack on May 14, 2007 16:45:19 GMT -5
My review for The Piper at the Gates of DawnPink Floyd, kids love 'em... uh but I don't. Maybe it's that quality of sound I like to call, "monolithic droning". Which describes the big production coupled to the flat, dry melodies delivered in a flat, dry moan. Ahhh, I get sleepy just thinking of it. Maybe it's that they sometimes do these albums with, oh about 4 songs, and each song runs about 16 hours in length. Maybe it's not so much the music I dislike, but the comas? He, he, actually I don't hate Pink Floyd. But I've never heard a PF song and had one of those "OMG, I must buy that!" moments. Frankly they don't inspire me to joy and I harbored little hope that "Piper" would change that feeling. But "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" is a whole different animal. Oh, it's Floyd alright. From the first track I'm offered that familiar linear sound linked with vocalization which rarely modulates in any noticeable way. But then this song about a cat -Lucifer Sam- opens with a catchy Peter Gunn-like bass and guitar riff, and electronically simulated scratching and hissing, and I couldn't help but smile, As the LP unfolded I discovered a Floyd that wasn't so -self consciously self important- It is self consciously surreal, but this is approached with such fresh faced exuberance that I was easily charmed. The albums almost giddy. Wrapped in a cool hippy beat, it gets better as it winds down. The silly, "The Gnome" is a hoot and "Bike" is equally fun. Bike was my favorite track. I loved the arrangement with it's shifting tempo and the way it moves from sing song vocals at the verses, then into an off-kilter -non chorus- accompanied by a theremin like backing, which ends with a clipped explosion of percussion. Cool and lighthearted fun. The LP might not have the polish and gravity of later PF works, but it's that naive, freewheeling spirit that drew me in. I liked the psychedelic flourishes. I liked the playful vocals and strange trippy lyrics. I liked the overall production -Norman Smith was George Martin's right hand man before helming this project- and his work is tight, while maintaining an open experimental feel. I wish they would have included the Emily song as a bonus but overall I was pleased. No It didn't make me a Floyd convert and no, it isn't the best album of the year. But it is an important piece of the tapestry and represents nicely all that was fresh and groundbreaking about 1967. I'll be checking out Barrett's solo efforts.
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Post by Captain Hygiene on May 14, 2007 18:15:08 GMT -5
I disagree. And I say that "Wish You Were Here" is the best Floyd album. You see, I would agree with that, but, Animals is certainly the best Floyd album. Servo Animals, Wish you were here, and Meddle were collectively the best Floyd album. The end.
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TomServo69
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Post by TomServo69 on May 14, 2007 18:16:54 GMT -5
You see, I would agree with that, but, Animals is certainly the best Floyd album. Servo Animals, Wish you were here, and Meddle were collectively the best Floyd album. The end. Here here! This, this I agree with! Servo
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Post by Chuck on May 14, 2007 18:32:02 GMT -5
You see, I would agree with that, but, Animals is certainly the best Floyd album. Servo Animals, Wish you were here, and Meddle were collectively the best Floyd album. The end. A Saucer Full of Secrets. (Careful with that axe, Eugene!)
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Post by Waldo Jeffers on May 14, 2007 19:15:47 GMT -5
I've always like Piper at the Gates of Dawn, and Mighty Jack I'm glad you're discovering Velvet Underground and Nico. It's cliche, but that album definately had an influence on me during a period of my life and, I guess, has probably changed it in certain ways. When I hear Black Angel's Death Song, it almost in a visceral sense takes me back to nights of insomnia, being the only one awake after a party (while taking speed) and, feeling cold, watching the sun rise...
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Post by Chuck on May 14, 2007 19:29:06 GMT -5
I've always like Piper at the Gates of Dawn, and Mighty Jack I'm glad you're discovering Velvet Underground and Nico. It's cliche, but that album definately had an influence on me during a period of my life and, I guess, has probably changed it in certain ways. When I hear Black Angel's Death Song, it almost in a visceral sense takes me back to nights of insomnia, being the only one awake after a party (while taking speed) and, feeling cold, watching the sun rise... Sounds like the perfect follow-up to Sister Ray.
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Post by Waldo Jeffers on May 14, 2007 19:51:04 GMT -5
Heh, exactly.
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Post by mightyjack on May 15, 2007 15:59:44 GMT -5
'67 was kind of a transitional year in studio techniques also. I consider it around the time when the "modern mix" started. It has a lot to do with 8 track becoming available. (I don't mean 8 track cartridges) The first two Doors albums are a good example. Both released in 1967, the first was recorded in late '66 on 4 track and has the typical 60s mix of bass and drums on one side and guitar and keyboard on the other with vocals central. By the second Doors album they were using 8 track and the bass and drums are central with the guitar and keys mixed left and right. And it's soooo much better! As studio techniques evolved and more tracks became available the 60s standard of drums on one channel began to fade away. And the rest is history! Great point. What sets this year apart for me goes beyond the great collection of albums. As we've seen, you find great albums in a lot of years. But I don't think we saw the explosion of innovation + experimentation + development of the technology (which of course, will continue to grow) + introduction of new artists whose impact is still felt + Many band making what many consider there quintessential recordings (arguably The Beatles, Cream) SGT Peppers changed the way we looked at production, Hendrix changed the way we looked at the lead guitar, the roof was blown off the building, there were no more limits on creativity and nothing would ever be the same again.
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Post by mightyjack on May 15, 2007 21:07:28 GMT -5
Oh! Oh! Speaking of a guy who did too many drugs and had a psychotic break down.... 13th Floor ElevatorsIf you've never heard of them, they are kind of "Psychadelic garage folk rock" Their 1967 album "Easter Everywhere" has a killer cover of Dylan's "Baby Blue". I recomend this group highly.
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TomServo69
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Post by TomServo69 on May 15, 2007 21:16:51 GMT -5
'67 was kind of a transitional year in studio techniques also. I consider it around the time when the "modern mix" started. It has a lot to do with 8 track becoming available. (I don't mean 8 track cartridges) The first two Doors albums are a good example. Both released in 1967, the first was recorded in late '66 on 4 track and has the typical 60s mix of bass and drums on one side and guitar and keyboard on the other with vocals central. By the second Doors album they were using 8 track and the bass and drums are central with the guitar and keys mixed left and right. And it's soooo much better! As studio techniques evolved and more tracks became available the 60s standard of drums on one channel began to fade away. And the rest is history! Hendrix changed the way we looked at the lead guitar. Yeah, I suppose he did, but, consider this, he basically took what Zappa had been doing since '65 with the wah pedal and the solos and all that jazz and introduced it to a mainstream audience that he was privy to and Zappa was not. Sorry to say, but, Hendrix was one of the biggest ripoff artists ever and all his live stuff is garbage. It's sloppy and off key. Don't get me wrong, I'll throw and Electic Ladyland every now and then, but, all these people who feel that Jimi is the be all, end all of rock guitar are grossly misinformed. Servo
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Post by mightyjack on May 16, 2007 6:56:03 GMT -5
Hendrix changed the way we looked at the lead guitar. Yeah, I suppose he did, but, consider this, he basically took what Zappa had been doing since '65 with the wah pedal and the solos and all that jazz and introduced it to a mainstream audience that he was privy to and Zappa was not. Sorry to say, but, Hendrix was one of the biggest ripoff artists ever and all his live stuff is garbage. It's sloppy and off key. Don't get me wrong, I'll throw and Electic Ladyland every now and then, but, all these people who feel that Jimi is the be all, end all of rock guitar are grossly misinformed. Servo Sorry, but I think you as wrong as a man could ever be in regards to Jimi. Horribly, bad, nastily wrong! I've gone into the detail into why he is the "end all" in the Hendrix appreciation thread. The ability to make a guitar breathe. And the dexterity and speed, well Zappa and few others at the time could come close to matching it. Hendrix made us stand in awe, his mastery and muscianship can't be over estimated, As for being a rip-off, again your knowledge musical history is lacking. Ripping off, as you like to call it, is a long Blues and Folk tradition - Artists from the very beginning used pieces from others, adapted it, reformed it, made it their own. In rock there's become this ownship issue, even though "lifting" is done all the time. But in traditional roots music that wasn't so, it was more, "Once this is out there, it belong to everyone" and reforming standards was the norm. Sorry Tom, you got a right to your opinion, but I''ll fight you tooth and nail on this issue. -Mike Bloomfeld, one of our greatest lead guitarist thought Jimi was so good that he said that he was going to stop playing because he was just made obsolete. -Paul McCartney thought he was amazing, so much so that he pushed to have Hendirx play in Monterey -Miles Davis, not a guy prone to praise nor someone who got along with people easily, was so blown away after seeing Hendrix playing "Machine Gun" -live I might add- that he befriended the ax man and would go to Jimi's apt just to jam for hours. -A noted old school bluesman (name escapes me, sorry) said Hendrix played "deep" - meaning, anyone can imitate great guitar lick, but a brilliant guitar player made the strings come alive, brought a depth and soul. Jimi could make that guitar cry, breathe, moan with delight. No, I don't think myself or anyone else is "grossly misinformed" in any way shape or friggin form!!!!
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Post by Captain Hygiene on May 16, 2007 8:40:56 GMT -5
I was actually kidding/ It may be the worst Floyd work ever, actually - maybe just behind Atom Heart Mother. Don't get me wrong, I love it to death, but I don't think it's anywhere near as good at Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here or The Division Bell. I wondered at the big change in heart from the previous Floyd thread.
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Post by mightyjack on May 16, 2007 12:44:16 GMT -5
Anyway... Psychadelic Rock: A few other lesser known bands who were doing it, if you like it check out...
The Seeds - "A Web of Sound" (1966) - not my favorite of the style but they have their fans. It's worth checking out.
The Chocolate Watchband: They had a couple of releases from 65 to 66, their 1967 release was titled "The Inner Mystique" and also included a cover of Dylan's Baby Blue (But don't buy this LP, it's filled with songs by others guys after the band broke up!!). If you wanna try one get "No Way Out" - They sound a bit like the Rolling Stones and actually had a couple songs that were produced by Frank Zappa.
The Electric Prunes - "I Had Too Much to Dream (Last Night)" (1967) - Generally solid, though not everything they did clicks for me, this was a good album.
And as for Garage Bands, how about the one hit wonder: Circle 5 with "Psychotic Reaction" (1966) - The rest of the LP isn't that great, but they did a cover of the Who's "My Generation" (Not near as good as the original but a curiosity to check out)
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TomServo69
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Post by TomServo69 on May 16, 2007 14:20:16 GMT -5
OK, I'll take back one thing I said. Not all live Hendrix is garbage. The Band of Gypsies performance is quality. But, you can't tell me that all that drug-addled nonsense is good. Cause it's not. Live Experience stuff is, for the most part, crap. Jimi is so out of time and key with the rest of the band it's intolerable. And, as far as ripping off, I wasn't talking about going back to the blues, everyone does that. And, yeah, I've been playing long enough that I have just a little bit of musical history down, lol. It's the fact that he took what Zappa did with the guitar and plowed it mainstream. And, I suppose that's alright, but, when you give absolutely no credit to the man, that's a tad low. And, I may be wrong, but, I've never seen any interview, anywhere that shows Jimi giving Zappa any credit whatsoever. And, yes, he's overrated. There are tons of better guitarists and guitar solos that are better than Hendrix, but, you never see them at the top of a "Greatest Solos" or a "Greatest Guitarists" list. That's because most listeners are narrowminded and have never heard anything else. I mean, name the best Hendrix solo. I can probably name 5 better.
Of course, none of us will ever be right. It's all opinion.
Servo
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Post by Mr. Atari on May 16, 2007 17:55:18 GMT -5
TS69, I'm somewhat in agreement that Jimi gets more worship than his talent was worth.
But in music, as in life, timing is everything. And Jimi did his thing at the right time. Even if he missed every note in every song at every other live show he ever did, he had Woodstock and he had Monterey. That's all he needed.
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