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Post by Trumpy's Magic Snout on Jan 5, 2008 9:07:02 GMT -5
I know Uncut magazine over here had a piece about this issue and reported that the last White Stripes album was one that brought the issue to the foreground for a lot of people. I think it was actually remastered and you could swap your original crap copy for a not so bad, though still not great, version.
It's just another example of bosses of studios not caring about the art they produce just as long as it ticks boxes that they think have to be ticked to sell their product to as many people as possible (see Hollywood 80's - current).
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Post by Father Mannix on Jan 5, 2008 9:58:20 GMT -5
This is one of those things where the main problem is everybody does it because everybody does it. If a CD comes out now that doesn't use extreme limiting/compression, some audiophiles might be excited, but most people are going to say "why is this so quiet?"
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Post by Shep on Jan 5, 2008 12:10:27 GMT -5
The only other CD besides "Vapor Trails" I can think of that was mixed as badly was Van Halen III. Gary Cherone got a raw deal. The real reason that album sucked was the mix. I agree. I kinda liked "Valen Halen 3" but the mix was dreadful (sounded like it was done underwater). I read somewhere that for some strange reason the audio cassette actually sounds better than the CD.
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Post by spidervodka on Jan 7, 2008 3:30:40 GMT -5
Compression is an indispensable studio tool. Most uncompressed recordings are too dynamic. You turn up to hear a quiet passage and then the loud part comes in and blows you away. That's why I'm glad spidervodka used the term overcompression. It's the Goldilocks syndrome, you gotta get it juuust right. Compression is an engineer's/mixer's friend, but only if used for good, and not evil. I should have thrown that in somewhere, the fact that if compression weren't used at all, then (for example) certain words or parts of the vocalist's words would be masked by the band's instruments. I have Stravinsky's "Firebird Suite" on CD recorded by the Telarc audiophile CD people and its dynamic range is HUGE, so wide that if I am not careful it can easily make my system's 8" woofers bottom out when a crescendo arrives, something my rock/pop CDs don't do at all at the same volume level. But in this case that wide dynamic range is essential to making the musicians's "point".
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Post by spidervodka on Jan 7, 2008 3:35:20 GMT -5
BTW, spidervodka : I very much enjoyed the formatting of your "header-post". I myself caught much flack when I 1st joined for "overly creative use of the keyboard' But I respect post-composing that flows & sets it's sections or moments apart ! __: dig ? :__ *~* So I'm not alone! I'm left-handed so some artsy-ness always seems to creep into most everything I do.
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Post by spidervodka on Jan 7, 2008 3:45:40 GMT -5
I know Uncut magazine over here had a piece about this issue and reported that the last White Stripes album was one that brought the issue to the foreground for a lot of people. I think it was actually remastered and you could swap your original crap copy for a not so bad, though still not great, version. Icky Thump (assuming this is the album you're referring to) was mastered to vinyl form by Steve Hoffman, someone who definitely doesn't do the overcompression thing. So if you have a turntable you can hear it without the industry-mandated loud junk added: the LP version at becausesoundmatters.comThis is a long thread started by Hoffman on his mastering adventure with this album. Speaking of a band selling a more tame version of their music (from that Chicago Tribune article I linked to in my first post): (completely off-topic comment: The Seldon Plan? One of the band members must be a fan of Isaac Asimov's awesome "Foundation" story series!) Big Business and art are not a good combination.
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Post by Mr. Atari on Jan 7, 2008 14:37:15 GMT -5
This morning, "Love and Peace or Else" from U2's How To Dismantle... came on my iPod, and all I could think about was this thread.
It's another example of an album that I love, but almost never want to listen to because of the mix. Every track on it is way TOO LOUD. The songwriting is great, but the mix is just a wall of noise.
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Post by Katie on Jan 9, 2008 18:46:17 GMT -5
i find this whole thread interesting.
I dont have as much of an opinion as you, but it does bother me that there really is no such thing as crescendo and decrescendo in most music now. they try to give the effect but it doesnt come out that way. and the sad thing is that can be the most powerful part of a piece of music, but you're right, they dont get that anymore.
classical of course still works but anything else basically ignores the dynamics.
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Post by wilson on Jan 10, 2008 22:35:48 GMT -5
BTW, spidervodka : I very much enjoyed the formatting of your "header-post". I myself caught much flack when I 1st joined for "overly creative use of the keyboard' But I respect post-composing that flows & sets it's sections or moments apart ! __: dig ? :__ *~* So I'm not alone! I'm left-handed so some artsy-ness always seems to creep into most everything I do. Well, I'm right-handed . . . but my brain's double-jointed , so maybe that's it. Actually , I think all creativity is the same "tools" using different materials. Meaning : It's all basically choosing what goes together and how much. Whether it's "less orange / more blue" in a painting, thicker ear-lobes on a sculpture , another word in the 2nd verse . or less bass in the fade . . . this also applies to speaking and posting. They all move at different rates , these processes . . and taking your time over a keyboard sound is fine , yet restucturing the same sentence 6 times may exhaust your pals. So ! same tools , different structures ( requiring vastly varying frameworks ). Oh yeah, n' it's all fun too !
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Post by pups4ever on Jan 12, 2008 8:57:01 GMT -5
You know, I get what you're saying. The ABBA one was a good example (having not heard that song before, I really wanted to listen to the second one more). I actually have the entire discography of the Alan Parsons Project on my computer and you can tell songs from the originals sound better than a 1991 compilation release, though a 1999 compilation release is both louder and sounds better than both, it was remastered the right way. I guess you'll get that when your producer is a sound engineer.
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