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Post by johnnyamp on Jan 25, 2008 18:23:41 GMT -5
Yeah, knowing this hurts. I've always accepted the Mike era based on the assumption that Joel just wanted to move on and try other things. Nothing against Mike, he was great, but its like Mom and Dad divorcing all over again. You'll never be able to look at them the same ever again.
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Post by Miss Interoceter on Jan 25, 2008 18:25:09 GMT -5
The show changed directions after that to be sure, but honestly not enough until the move to the Sci-Fi era to make me think that Mallon needed to get rid of Joel. Honestly, what really changed? The invention exchanges and reading fan mail are all that went away. And for what? To make the human a little more buffoonish in the robots' eyes, and the humor directed at the movies to get a slightly sharper, but nearly imperceptible, edge to it. That's not much creatively. It's just too bad. I think they should've left Mallon behind after KTMA.
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Post by Godo on Jan 25, 2008 18:59:25 GMT -5
On another note, I've started to get a little disappointed in Joel's business, uh, attitude, I guess. I don't like how he never brings up other riffing efforts, i.e. Rifftrax. And I'm starting to get tired of him mentioning "original MST3K cast," and "buy it, won't you?" in every communication I see from him. It's starting to give me an ichy I'm just here to shill my product kind of feeling. I know, I know, they're a small startup and they need all the exposure and money they can get, but still--that's how he's starting to come off as to me. This is where people like Jim Mallon come in. They can shoulder the business attitude, the shilling, and the icky feelings. No matter what else you think about him, these are all things Mallon has done well. (I guess you just gotta be able to reign him in before he lets the creator of the show become unhappy and leave... )
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Post by Robyn on Jan 25, 2008 19:24:44 GMT -5
Hey guys, I just remembered this old interview where Joel relates this story: So maybe Joel not responding to the RiffTrax question is like that, 'cause he KNOWS fans are gonna freak out and speculate wildly. Maybe this is his way of poking fun at the people who take "Cinematic Titanic vs. Rifftrax" waaaaay tooooo seriously and treat it like "Joel vs. Mike 2: Electric Boogaloo." Or maybe he's just being a big Drama Queen, I don't know.
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Post by pslowner on Jan 25, 2008 19:36:29 GMT -5
Of course, without Jim Mallon, would MST3K every gotten off the ground in the first place? That, we will never know.
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Post by Trumpy's Magic Snout on Jan 25, 2008 19:37:51 GMT -5
Hey guys, I just remembered this old interview where Joel relates this story: So maybe Joel not responding to the RiffTrax question is like that, 'cause he KNOWS fans are gonna freak out and speculate wildly. Maybe this is his way of poking fun at the people who take "Cinematic Titanic vs. Rifftrax" waaaaay tooooo seriously and treat it like "Joel vs. Mike 2: Electric Boogaloo." Or maybe he's just being a big Drama Queen, I don't know. It's a good point. If he was willing to poke fun like that then it could be the same here. Personally I love both projects and both hosts as they bring different things to the table. Shamefully there will always be people who side with one and then get pretty defensive over their choice for no real reason.
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Post by Trumpy's Magic Snout on Jan 25, 2008 19:41:07 GMT -5
Of course, without Jim Mallon, would MST3K every gotten off the ground in the first place? That, we will never know. Doubtful really. Is it not he that went to Joel saying he had the opportunity to put some comedy on KTMA so create something. Of course Joel could have created the show and went to a network without the prompting from Mallon but where else would have put that on? Joel admits himself in the interview that the KTMA stuff was necessary for them to work out how to riff a movie and Mallon was the guy at KTMA. It would seem he is pretty important. Plus of course as previously stated he has a business brain, always essential even if it does end up coming into conflict with the creative talent.
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Post by Chuck on Jan 25, 2008 20:05:55 GMT -5
I thought Joel leaving the show due to problems with Jim was common knowledge. I’m sure that it’s been mentioned by other members of the cast in past interviews. It is, but it's always been presented that Joel left directly because of the bad blood, not that he gave up his precious MST because he feared that the bad blood was going to ruin it. That's a tragically different spin in my mind. Plus it makes me want to join the anti-Mallon club for the first time. "Tragically?" It's a show. It's a business. It's show biz. (Tragedy is a bridge collapse. A fire with casualties. Hamlet.) You need a real thick skin to survive. Read Valley of the Dolls for god's sake. Trust me, worse things have happened to people. In the end, Joel really grew not only as a person, but as a artist. He obviously put a lot of thought into CT, and rethought the concept. And it works. You don't need puppets. (I admire Joel all the more for stepping away from baby and letting it live in spite of the fact that it tore his heart out. And I reiterate: it's not "tragic", it's an unfortunate event in show biz.) Everybody on this board has been analyzing CT to death. Favorite this. Favorite that. I'm sorry. I'm just thankful we have these wonderful people entertaining us again in a way we love. And I will say here and now on the record, that I do not like Riff Tracks, and do not think much of The Film Crew. It's the attitude I don't like. Joel understood from the beginning and had it right. CT FEELS right. It FEELS friendly. The two aforementioned ventures do not. They have what I call the "I'm-Improv-Olympic-and-I-know-more-about-being-funny-than-you" attitude, and look down on their audience. Or just wink one too many times. CT does not condescend. It treats its audience as its equal.
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Post by FredC on Jan 25, 2008 20:08:41 GMT -5
Chances are, Joel knows about Rifftrax and The Film Crew, but just hasn't seen any.
I mean, is it really fair to comment on the subject if you've only got an idea of what it is, rather than a solid, experienced foundation?
Again, it could be just to stir up some crap, but I don't really think theres much to it. Like in an older interview when Joel was asked about the Sci-Fi era episodes, and he said something to the effect of "I don't really watch it, it's hard to watch something when you know how it's made and all that goes into it."
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Post by Shark on Jan 25, 2008 20:20:08 GMT -5
"Rhino has some insane pricing scheme which amounts to $10-$15 a disc"
That is from the interview... Ok - seriously, WHO are these people that are able to get full length, 2 hour DVDs of their fave cult tv show or movie for less that $10? At least there are some intelligent people addressing this in the comments section.
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Post by XerxesTheCat on Jan 25, 2008 20:28:57 GMT -5
In all fairness to Joel's not acknowledging Mike and all, it actually is QUITE RARE for a former host and a latter host to truly comment on each other. Or if a castmember leaves a show, and a new one surfaces. In interviews they really don't talk about each other.
Really none of the "Family Fued" hosts ever acknowledged each other. None of the AFV hosts explain their feeling about one another.
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Post by wilson on Jan 25, 2008 20:45:24 GMT -5
There's a lot of wisdom to all the replies here , but I still think that Joel leaving the RT / CT question blank , aside from not knowing it well enough to give an informed answer , may have also had a little to do with the way it was asked. Referring to everyone as their characters ( Pearl, TV's Frank & Dr. Forester have split from Mike, Brain Guy & Tom Servo ) adds some extra layers to it . . some of them goofy. You know, is it a serious question or what exactly ?
And on the whole Mallon subject , everyone here is keeping to his business angles. But it's more complicated when you remember that he was active as both Gypsy and a frequent director too. Not to mention a "contributing writer". It certainly makes it harder to ponder the "tensions" when you know how often he was right in there in the puppet trench !
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Post by Captain Hygiene on Jan 25, 2008 20:52:58 GMT -5
Chances are, Joel knows about Rifftrax and The Film Crew, but just hasn't seen any. I mean, is it really fair to comment on the subject if you've only got an idea of what it is, rather than a solid, experienced foundation? Again, it could be just to stir up some crap, but I don't really think theres much to it. Like in an older interview when Joel was asked about the Sci-Fi era episodes, and he said something to the effect of "I don't really watch it, it's hard to watch something when you know how it's made and all that goes into it." I was just going to say this. I suspect if I was involved in actually doing MST3k, I would not exactly have an urge to pay to watch somebody make fun of a movie. Even if it was someone I'd worked with in the past. Edit: also, like BS says above, I'd probably be a bit put-off by somebody asking about things that "Brainguy" or "Tom Servo" had been up to. Sure, we joke about them being real, but I think it was a bit lame to actually put that in that particular interview question.
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Post by Robyn on Jan 25, 2008 21:05:28 GMT -5
You guys make some good points, but I just keep thinking that saying ANYTHING would have been better than just silence. For example:
"Well, I wouldn't know, since those are fictional characters."
OR
"I can't really comment, as I haven't actually seen those other projects myself."
OR
"Michael J. Nelson is a Communist and eats babies."
A straight answer is all I want, really.
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Post by Godo on Jan 25, 2008 21:46:51 GMT -5
"Michael J. Nelson is a Communist and eats babies." ;D ;D ;D I knew it!!!
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