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Post by strangefate on Oct 10, 2008 20:59:16 GMT -5
I really enjoyed Film Crew as well. I think it came very close to being a continuation of the Sci-Fi years in quality, which have always been my favorite. The host segments even grew on me. Mike's apology on Giant of Marathon is hilarious.
So, clearly, I'm a big Mike, Kevin, and Bill fan. That said, Rifftrax has left me kind of cold. I don't like the idea of buying both a Rifftrax and the movie. Or worse, renting the movie, and then having a worthless Rifftrax on my PC unless I re-rent it. I also dislike watching things on my PC unless absolutely necessary. It's all just very inconvenient for me with the way things are setup at my house. Plus I don't have a lot of interest in seeing good or fair movies riffed anyhow. Raiders of the Lost Arc, for example, doesn't need riffs to be entertaining to me.
I prefer to see cheesy B-movies made fun of. That's just how I feel about it.
(I also agree that length can be a problem. Even some MST3K episodes feel ridiculously long and the host segments often do provide needed breaks from the dreary monotony of the films. I think Film Crew was perfect in that aspect --an opening, a closer, and a 'lunch' break in the middle. CT really could use something like that. The 'stop the film' bits just don't work that well IMO)
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Post by dangfish on Oct 11, 2008 8:53:18 GMT -5
I remember big chunks in, I think it was the Lost pilot, where Kevin would just ramble on about crap to fill up space. This is why the 'more casual' approach doesn't work for me--I like the sense that people are really watching the movie and making jokes, not just talking to each other over it. The first time I noticed something like this in a RiffTrax it really hit me--these guys are selling the trax only and so they MUST riff over everything, and if it's a 2.5 hour movie, they have to riff the WHOLE thing. Kind of gives you a whole new appreciation of why/when MST3K would edit its movies down to a little over an hour (2hrs minus commercials minus skits). And why CT would do it even though they're doing direct to video with no content or time constraints. The exact point I was about to make. With MST, after commercials and skits and such, they were only riffing on about 70 minutes of movie. And even those had their dead spots. With Rifftrax, they are sometimes riffing on films more than twice as long as that. So I don't know how anybody could pull this off without a little rambling thrown in. These bits are not my favorite parts either, but overall I think they've done a great job keeping the quality high on some of these super-long blockbuster films.
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Post by pslowner on Oct 11, 2008 9:42:52 GMT -5
What I really like in the riffing is the feeling that the riffers are having a good time doing the riff, interacting with each other, occasionally giggling at someone else's riffs. Like they actually enjoy what they are doing..... and of course be spot on funny.
I guess this is why I would have to rank my preferences in order as:
1. Rifftrax. You cannot buy chemistry like they have. And a lot of the iRiffs and fan riffs on the site (Josh Way, RoninFoxTrax, RiffRaffTheater, Raven Riffs, etc.) are just damned funny. And if people find syncing up their iPod and the start of the movie too taxing, you really should put your mittens back on and play with your safety scissors and circles of paper.
2. ICWXP. I was skeptical that a bunch of speed metal guys could be funny, but my goodness they are funny. The quality that goes into their production and DVD release (and dirt cheap) is amazing. I am a big fan.
3. CT. Amazingly funny people, have picked perfect movies to riff, but the chemistry just is not there. It is like one person steps up to the mic, makes their riff, falls back, then the next person steps up. Don't get me wrong, I have purchased all 4 releases and like them, but not just as much as Rifftrax and ICWXP.
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Post by wedestroymyths on Oct 11, 2008 11:39:52 GMT -5
So I don't know how anybody could pull this off without a little rambling thrown in. These bits are not my favorite parts either, but overall I think they've done a great job keeping the quality high on some of these super-long blockbuster films. While I agree that doing this is difficult, my philosophy of entertainment and art appreciation is much more unforgiving. In my book, if you're going to bite off a huge mouthful, than you better be willing to chew, swallow and enjoy every minute of it (which is why, outside of a handful of 'biggies,' double albums are rarely successful).
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Post by dangfish on Oct 11, 2008 12:45:26 GMT -5
So I don't know how anybody could pull this off without a little rambling thrown in. These bits are not my favorite parts either, but overall I think they've done a great job keeping the quality high on some of these super-long blockbuster films. While I agree that doing this is difficult, my philosophy of entertainment and art appreciation is much more unforgiving. In my book, if you're going to bite off a huge mouthful, than you better be willing to chew, swallow and enjoy every minute of it (which is why, outside of a handful of 'biggies,' double albums are rarely successful). I'm really glad I don't share that philosophy, otherwise I would've given up on all entertainment long ago. Even the best episodes of MST had their weak moments.
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Post by Broadsword on Oct 11, 2008 21:55:35 GMT -5
To me nothing has come close to what MST3K did though out most for their run but Rifftrax, CT and The Film Crew come close. I have all of the episodes of MST3K and seen them all many times, I'm real thankful for the new stuff and I'm glad that Mike and Joel are at it again and their products are a hell of a lot more entertaining then what is on TV now.
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Post by wedestroymyths on Oct 12, 2008 0:49:48 GMT -5
I'm really glad I don't share that philosophy, otherwise I would've given up on all entertainment long ago. Even the best episodes of MST had their weak moments. Unsurprisingly, most entertainment is junk. I do find it's easier to give a pass to things like, Mulder's awful speeches on the X-Files and bad episodes of The Simpsons. An honest attempt and a failure, in my book, is much more tolerable than riffing a 2 hour movie and rambling to fill space instead of writing jokes. What I'm saying is, I'd rather have that time filled with bad jokes than white noise. Back to the 'double album' comparison, great double albums use their sprawling track list to fit in stellar songs, or tell a story. Crappy long albums though (think Devendra Banhart's "Smokey Rolls Down Thunder Mountain") cram a bunch of stuff together to make a disc longer. That's what I'm getting at. No art or entertainment can be perfect, but I want an honest attempt the whole way if I'm paying for anything.
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Post by dangfish on Oct 12, 2008 10:51:18 GMT -5
I'm really glad I don't share that philosophy, otherwise I would've given up on all entertainment long ago. Even the best episodes of MST had their weak moments. Unsurprisingly, most entertainment is junk. I do find it's easier to give a pass to things like, Mulder's awful speeches on the X-Files and bad episodes of The Simpsons. An honest attempt and a failure, in my book, is much more tolerable than riffing a 2 hour movie and rambling to fill space instead of writing jokes. What I'm saying is, I'd rather have that time filled with bad jokes than white noise. Back to the 'double album' comparison, great double albums use their sprawling track list to fit in stellar songs, or tell a story. Crappy long albums though (think Devendra Banhart's "Smokey Rolls Down Thunder Mountain") cram a bunch of stuff together to make a disc longer. That's what I'm getting at. No art or entertainment can be perfect, but I want an honest attempt the whole way if I'm paying for anything. Well, the rambling might not be to your taste (and they aren't my favorite moments either) but I seriously doubt that it is unscripted. They have said in the past that improvising is the kiss of death when riffing films and I don't believe they do any of it currently. The ramblings are part of their comedy. Their job as performers is to make it sound unscripted. And your comparison to music albums doesn't really make much sense to me. Muscians have quite a bit more freedom because they are starting with nothing and then creating something that is all their own. With rifftrax, they are at the mercy of the film itself. If they filled a two and a half hour film with the exact same style of riffing throughout the entire thing then this would be lazy on their part. Instead, like professionals, they mix it up with different styles within the movie (the rambling being one example of this). I've been quite impressed with the way they've been handling this juggling act and since Rifftrax my opinion of their talent has only increased. So, by your definition, I believe they deserve to be in the 'honest attempt' category.
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Post by BoB3K on Oct 12, 2008 11:57:35 GMT -5
The longest RT I've watched is probably Battlefield Earth. There was more than a few segments that had "filler," but I thought it was mostly entertaining.
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Post by ensignsmather13 on Oct 12, 2008 13:38:09 GMT -5
I wonder if Nelson's support of ICWXP isn't in some way to effectively thumb his nose at Jim Mallon (who blocked Rhino from releasing Film Crew because it was too much like MST3K)...
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Post by dangfish on Oct 12, 2008 14:46:55 GMT -5
I wonder if Nelson's support of ICWXP isn't in some way to effectively thumb his nose at Jim Mallon (who blocked Rhino from releasing Film Crew because it was too much like MST3K)... I doubt it. I think Mike is always honest with his opinions. He's always said as far as fan riffs go 'the more the merrier.' I don't think he would've said they were funny if he didn't think they were.
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Post by BoB3K on Oct 13, 2008 8:57:35 GMT -5
Jim Mallon (who blocked Rhino from releasing Film Crew because it was too much like MST3K)... Speaking of MST3K rip-offs and Jim Mallon and The Film Crew. The way I understand it from interviews and such, Jim didn't put the kabosh on The Film Crew because of copyright/intellectual property stuff specifically, but because it was Rhino who was going to release it and he thought they should be concentrating on MST3K releases. I agree with dangfish, too. Mike doesn't seem like the person who would thumb his nose at anybody (outside of a riff that is).
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Post by Bix Dugan on Oct 13, 2008 13:28:27 GMT -5
One point I got out of this thread is about CT's supposed "stiffness".
That the Titans seem to be looking at a script, waiting for their cue, and then delivering their line, repeat, etc.
When I saw them at the L.A. Film Festival, they didn't seem to be doing this, because from where I sat (down front) you really were watching the movie, mostly.
When I watch the DVD, you see the movie & the Titans in one view. I know Joel planned for the first release to be done live at that Light & Magic place, and then the whole year they've been doing Live Performances of all the releases. I can see why they wanted a format that could easily translate to the live stage, and CT 2008 is definitely worth catching, but...
Could the "stiffness" be from having to do the shows live? It's not something that MST3K had to worry about all those years.
I personally think they're loosening up, like a pair of leather loafers. Give 'em time.
I wanna see a spit-ball fight between Frank & Joel...
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Post by ensignsmather13 on Oct 13, 2008 14:01:07 GMT -5
I wonder if Nelson's support of ICWXP isn't in some way to effectively thumb his nose at Jim Mallon (who blocked Rhino from releasing Film Crew because it was too much like MST3K)... I doubt it. I think Mike is always honest with his opinions. He's always said as far as fan riffs go 'the more the merrier.' I don't think he would've said they were funny if he didn't think they were. I didn't say Mike didn't think they were funny. I was speculating that Mike's endorsement of them probably irks Mallon, and wondering whether that could be a side benefit for Mike, whose own MST spin-off was delayed due to Mallon's interference.
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Post by BoB3K on Oct 13, 2008 14:26:04 GMT -5
Considering how MST3K.com has faired, I wouldn't be surprised if just about all of the recent activity in the riffing world has irked Jim.
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