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Post by Chuck on Dec 15, 2005 8:32:29 GMT -5
The first Christmas was many years ago, when a greeting card company called Hallmark needed money.
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Post by Spooky Spider on Dec 15, 2005 11:58:04 GMT -5
This whole thing sickens me. I mean, there's nothing wrong with saying Happy Hannukah/Kwana/Ramidan/Boxing Day/Solstice to people that you already know celebrate them. But to preemptively forbid people to say "Christmas" (at a few local stores like Wal-Mart, employees have been forbidden from using the C word, at the risk of losing their job) is madness.
"Merry Christmas!" "I take offense to that. I don't celebrate it." "Oh. Well, have a miserable one then!" "Hey, thanks!"
I mean, what do these people WANT?
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Dec 15, 2005 13:38:01 GMT -5
This whole thing sickens me. I mean, there's nothing wrong with saying Happy Hannukah/Kwana/Ramidan/Boxing Day/Solstice to people that you already know celebrate them. But to preemptively forbid people to say "Christmas" (at a few local stores like Wal-Mart, employees have been forbidden from using the C word, at the risk of losing their job) is madness. "Merry Christmas!" "I take offense to that. I don't celebrate it." "Oh. Well, have a miserable one then!" "Hey, thanks!" I mean, what do these people WANT? Who "forbids" anyone to say Merry Christmas? This is a made up problem to get Bill O'Reilly ratings. People who support it are dupes of the NEW mainstream media.
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Post by NerdGroupie on Dec 15, 2005 13:55:06 GMT -5
"Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, kiss my ass. Kiss his ass. Kiss your ass. Happy Hanukkah."
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Post by Bix Dugan on Dec 15, 2005 18:06:34 GMT -5
To me, Happy Holidays always meant Merry Christmas & Happy New Years, together. Holidays. Plural. Get it?
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Post by Spooky Spider on Dec 15, 2005 19:38:54 GMT -5
Who "forbids" anyone to say Merry Christmas? This is a made up problem to get Bill O'Reilly ratings. People who support it are dupes of the NEW mainstream media. Gee, how about the people at Wal-Mart that I mentioned knowing who weren't allowed to say it? The problem exists, and isn't imaginary. People are so afraid of offending different beliefs that they're trying to shut down a single one!
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Post by Da Worm Fizzle on Dec 15, 2005 21:16:23 GMT -5
I'm with Stalin on this one, there really is no controversy or fight here, some people are just trying to hype up a minor disagreement, especially O'Reilly. I know that nobody is trying to rename Christmas Trees into Holiday Trees. Don't we have enough things to really argue and disagree about out there? I mean, hell, what happened to the whole fight to get rid of the Stars and Bars that still fly over some southern government buildings, and whatnot? Stars and Bars offend everybody regardless of their race, religion, political affiliation or sexual orientation. Let's make a bigger deal about that, shall we? Besides, the whole Christmas debate just doesn't make sense. I mean, since the majority of America is Christian, why would they worry about offending the minority? They aren't going to lose anything in sales. And who are these supposed people who go around being offended by everything? Did they just wake up one morning after many years of life and say to themselves, "Wow, Christmas, which has never made much of a difference to me since I'm not Christian, has suddenly offended me by its very existance." ? No, because nobody thinks like that. Things are being hyped up by people like Bill O'Reilly. Because when you think about it, do you know any of these people who are supposed to be offended? Or are all references second hand, through the news and half-made up stories of others online? This very conversation is perpetuating a controversy that doesn't exist. Wake up people! This is the real life version of Wag the Dog!!!
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Post by marytrobot on Dec 15, 2005 23:37:13 GMT -5
I could care less if people say "merry christmas" or "Happy Chanukka" I'm just saying: Happy Chrismaka everyone!
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Post by kronos on Dec 16, 2005 0:19:20 GMT -5
People have to stop looking at words themselves and perceive the thought behind the words. When people say "Merry.." whatever, they say it to be NICE to someone...Take the freaking gesture and say thank you and return the jesture! Damn, no wonder why people aren't polite anymore, it's too freaking complicated to be so.
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Post by Mr. Atari on Dec 16, 2005 0:35:31 GMT -5
In the aforementioned Denver Post article, they pointed out that in their very paper, 20 years ago 90% of their advertisers used the phrase "Merry Christmas" in their ads, down to 3 advertisers in 2004.
I believe it was Lowe's that was advertising "Holiday Trees" this year. And apparently, Caapie has inside evidence about Wal-Mart. Not to mention the obvious double standard in my friend's school (a pretty common trend).
I'm not saying O'Reilly isn't making an avalanche out of light flurries, but he's not the one making it snow.
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Dec 16, 2005 8:57:36 GMT -5
I'm not saying O'Reilly isn't making an avalanche out of light flurries, but he's not the one making it snow. Nice metaphor! And I'll admit I overstated my case up above saying that no one "forbids" it. We've all heard examples. When I was teaching high school, we were told to "town down" the Christmas decorations. I said screw it, decorated, and we even did a unit on Christmas stories like the one Mr. A talked about. We read from the Bible <gasp> as well as reading Jewish stories, the origin of Kwanza, and even when/how Hindus and Buddhists have annual celebrations. It was awesome. But although the administration had asked us to "tone it down," no one got me in trouble. Seriously, though, I think what O'Reilly's doing is just cynical. For example, I'm a Christian, I say Merry Christmas more than Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings. I know what/why I'm celebrating. But I'm also rational and conscious. I know that not everyone celebrates it. And I don't know how recognizing that fact and being respectful of others the way I would want them to be respectful of me can ever, EVER, equate to an "attack on Christmas." The "movement," to me, is part of the cynical card that a lot of Christians have learned from the bad parts of multiculturalism: play the victim.
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Post by CBG on Dec 16, 2005 12:11:58 GMT -5
The "movement," to me, is part of the cynical card that a lot of Christians have learned from the bad parts of multiculturalism: play the victim. Nail on head.
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Post by Chuck on Dec 16, 2005 15:21:39 GMT -5
I think we need to get past tolerance, and move on to acceptance. Ah, but it's so much fun to hate! And it's the American way! This country has been doing it for years. Why stop now? I know, I'm a cynic. But when you're raised 12 years in a catholic school system; when you know that the priests that are preaching against homosexuality are diddling their altar boys; when you see all the hypocracy that goes on - you realize that the basic teachings are fine. It's how hatemongers twist those teachings to their own evil views that makes it the bigotry it is today. Some street bible preacher was babbling on the corner in front of Marshal Fields one day, and was yelling that the bible finds homosexuality an abomination. I said loudly to the friends I was with as we passed by that that's why I didn't think they should let illiterates read. As for myself, at this time every year I marvel at how gullible the general public really is.
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Post by Melting Manos on Dec 16, 2005 16:09:52 GMT -5
I think this whole issue has gotten so blown out of proportion it is beyond ridiculous. Some people have way too much time on their hands. I don't care how people celebrate this time of the year. In fact I really don't care if they celebrate it at all. I'll do my thing you do yours. And if people don't feel like I've covered all of the bases when I say "Happy Holidays" they can kindly kiss my ass.
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Post by Mr. Atari on Dec 16, 2005 16:23:00 GMT -5
Ah chuck, you're assuming that the opposite of tolerance is hate.
And CBG assumes that acceptance is possible with mutually exclusive ideals.
I think we need to get past some relativistic view of tolerance and acceptance and get to respect while acknowledging disagreement.
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