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Post by quinnmartin on Mar 21, 2009 8:35:40 GMT -5
In fact, my only criticism of the show was that the final tag (150,000 years later) was unnecessary. It should have ended with the pull-back shot of Adama at the gravesite, and that phenomenal last line of his. Yeah, that was a little much. But I can forgive them for indugling a little bit at that point. After sleeping on it, I think the thing that was most satisfying about the ending is that they didn't destroy the rich religious and mythological "tapestry" of the show by trying to provide logicical explanations for every little thing. Trying to explain the higher power that had been manipulating things from season 1 and the head creatures as some sort of alien or ancient Cylon hybrid or whatever would have just cheapened the show. And led to a lot more questions as fans trying to fit those explantions into everything that happened so far. And I loved how the resolution played off ideas that were setup very early on in the series, the idea of Baltar being an instrument of a higher power. Head Six had been explaining what she was all along, so the answer wasn't something out of leftfield just to put a giant twist in the final episode. Same with Kara. Leoben's always had a special affinity for her, and he explained exactly who she was earlier in the season back on the Demetrius. And personally, I loved the way Cavil ended up. Though I didn't see it coming, it fit perfectly with his character.
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Mar 21, 2009 14:47:49 GMT -5
After sleeping on it, I think the thing that was most satisfying about the ending is that they didn't destroy the rich religious and mythological "tapestry" of the show by trying to provide logicical explanations for every little thing. Trying to explain the higher power that had been manipulating things from season 1 and the head creatures as some sort of alien or ancient Cylon hybrid or whatever would have just cheapened the show. And led to a lot more questions as fans trying to fit those explantions into everything that happened so far. I was curious about that last scene, though. And perhaps this is because I only watched seasons 3 and 4 sporadically, but what did angel-Baltar mean by "He doesn't like to be called that" when she mentioned God? Was that just a throw-away line, or was that some kind of teaser for whatever that special "BSG: The Plan" is supposed to be? I just wasn't sure. And the only thing that really bothered me was how the colony got destroyed. Fate, perhaps. And Starbuck just disappearing was perfect, I thought. Oh, and Tyrol going to Scotland (probably...or Ireland): GALEN Tyrol goes to the GAELIC lands. Cute.
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Post by quinnmartin on Mar 21, 2009 15:12:26 GMT -5
I read an interview with Ron Moore about the finale where he wanted to leave the "higher power" somewhat ambivalent. I'm guessing that line was playing off that idea.
Per Ron...
"It just felt like, you know, by its nature, the eternal, the divine, sort of defies concrete terminology. The more you attempt to state exactly what it is definitively, the less mysterious, the less supernatural, the less mysterious it becomes. And I thought, you can only go so far. You can kind of acknowledge a presence, you can acknowledge the hand of something else, and that was about as far as I thought that the show could comfortable show. "
"And the more you try to put definitions on it, the less satisfying it becomes. Once you get to the place where you imagine God as a bearded guy in a cloud, it becomes less satisfying. "
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Mar 22, 2009 8:25:05 GMT -5
A guy on an email list I belong to posted this VERY critical reaction to how the series ended up. I thought it was articulate, and I was curious about your responses:
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Post by quinnmartin on Mar 22, 2009 16:52:34 GMT -5
I have a problem with labeling the way the show resolved as a Deus ex Machina. It's not like they suddenly pulled the idea of Kara being mystically significant out of their hats to resolve things. That had been carefully setup since season 1. And the song being significant was setup at the end of season 3. A Deus ex Machina would have been more like, as the Galactica is falling into the black hole, HotDog is revealed to be a Lord of Kobol and he transports them to Earth.
The characters had won their victory over the Cylons through their ingenuity, guts, and Baltar's "leap of faith". Even with the "supernatural" assistance, it was always up to the characters free will and the choices they made. Once those choices had been made and the victories had been won, Kara was allowed to fulfill her destiny and lead them to our Earth.
And the "Harbringer of Death" thing was fulfilled when Kara brought the rebel Cylon basestar back to the fleet, setting in motion the events that would lead to the end Cylon resurection - bringing death to the Cylon race.
And the Razor Hybrid's "she will lead the human race to its end" statement was resolved in the finale. With Hera being "Eve", the human race did come to it's end on Earth.
But he is correct that they usually didn't have these exact resolutions in mind when they through some of this stuff out there. It was never a show that was plotted out completely from the beginning, with mysteries being setup to be resolved later.
A lot of that kind of stuff was thrown out as simply backstory to give the story extra "weight" (like the idea of the repeating cycles) or done because they thought it was interesting at the time they broke the episode (like Kara's death, the final four reveal in season 3). As far as I know, the only real "ending" that they had from the beginning of the series was the shot of Six walking through Times Square. It would be nice if it had been all planned out like a novel from the beginning, but they've always been pretty up front that that wasn't the case. And the did manage to work things out suprisingly well at the end, better that I expected them to be able to.
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Mar 22, 2009 17:11:37 GMT -5
I have a problem with labeling the way the show resolved as a Deus ex Machina. It's not like they suddenly pulled the idea of Kara being mystically significant out of their hats to resolve things. That had been carefully setup since season 1. And the song being significant was setup at the end of season 3. A Deus ex Machina would have been more like, as the Galactica is falling into the black hole, HotDog is revealed to be a Lord of Kobol and he transports them to Earth. The characters had won their victory over the Cylons through their ingenuity, guts, and Baltar's "leap of faith". Even with the "supernatural" assistance, it was always up to the characters free will and the choices they made. Once those choices had been made and the victories had been won, Kara was allowed to fulfill her destiny and lead them to our Earth. And the "Harbringer of Death" thing was fulfilled when Kara brought the rebel Cylon basestar back to the fleet, setting in motion the events that would lead to the end Cylon resurection - bringing death to the Cylon race. And the Razor Hybrid's "she will lead the human race to its end" statement was resolved in the finale. With Hera being "Eve", the human race did come to it's end on Earth. But he is correct that they usually didn't have these exact resolutions in mind when they through some of this stuff out there. It was never a show that was plotted out completely from the beginning, with mysteries being setup to be resolved later. A lot of that kind of stuff was thrown out as simply backstory to give the story extra "weight" (like the idea of the repeating cycles) or done because they thought it was interesting at the time they broke the episode (like Kara's death, the final four reveal in season 3). As far as I know, the only real "ending" that they had from the beginning of the series was the shot of Six walking through Times Square. It would be nice if it had been all planned out like a novel from the beginning, but they've always been pretty up front that that wasn't the case. And the did manage to work things out suprisingly well at the end, better that I expected them to be able to. All good points. I do have to say that the way the opera house scenes finally came together was a big let down for me, though. It ended up being just a way to get the major figures in one room? Granted that was the final show down, but it was like: "Here's a massively important vision. What is it? A plot device to move people from point A to point B." I know they used it for more throughout the series. But, still, to have it not be more than that bugged me.
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Post by quinnmartin on Mar 22, 2009 19:14:01 GMT -5
All good points. I do have to say that the way the opera house scenes finally came together was a big let down for me, though. It ended up being just a way to get the major figures in one room? Granted that was the final show down, but it was like: "Here's a massively important vision. What is it? A plot device to move people from point A to point B." I know they used it for more throughout the series. But, still, to have it not be more than that bugged me. Yeah, I was a bit underwhelmed by the meaning of the Opera House visions. They were worked into the plot well, but the meaning wasn't as grandiose as I expected back in season 1. Though it was really, really cool when Baltar and Six came into CIC and the Five were up on the risers bathed in light staring down at the them. That was just a great visual and one of the best "Wow" moments from the episode. I'm sure when they introduced the "Five in the Opera House vision" they had no idea it would represent CIC with Sam in a goo tub, but they did manage to seemlessly work it into the plot very well.
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Post by Mod City on Mar 22, 2009 22:52:09 GMT -5
I loved it and everyone's take has been interesting. I gotta agree that it was perfect they didn't try to explain the heck out of every little question. Even in the end, nothing seems absolute.
I personally loved the opera house vision segment, and agree particularly on the effectiveness of the cloaked Final Five and the CIC Final Five parallel.
What an ending for Kara. Very cool.
And I have to agree that the very final segment was probably unnecessary, but it didn't ruin anything for me and I relish any chance to see Head Six and Head Baltar talking about anything. I could have done without Ron Moore in the frame, but whatever. It's the price of watching too many specials and knowing what he looks like so well you could spot him on a crowded street.
Baltar and Six at the end was a personal favorite. "I know about farming, you know." And then he nearly breaks down. Another very cool closing for a character.
I'm going to have to digest this a bit longer, but it was amazing. I'm thrilled with the way the things that came together did, and how what didn't come together didn't. If that makes any sense.
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Post by quinnmartin on Mar 23, 2009 13:18:20 GMT -5
Rewatched it again yesterday, and one thing I noticed that I missed the first time was that Head Six was telling Baltar to not go with on rescue mission. He'd been shown the Opera House visions and been told that he would be watching over Hera, but in the end he was making a clear choice of his own free will, not being dragged to his destiny by his an angel on his shoulder.
I found the ending was a lot sadder on the second viewing. Not "darker", but much more moving - especialy the bits with Kara/Lee and Baltar/Six. And the flashbacks seem to work much better after having seen where the characters ended up. Zack's "something is broken" line was just perfect.
Though I still could have done without the Laura flashbacks.
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Post by Phantom Engineer on Mar 23, 2009 16:26:44 GMT -5
I thought it was frakin' great.
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Mar 23, 2009 16:40:59 GMT -5
I thought it was frakin' great. 2 k's, poser! And as for the Laura flashbacks, I actually liked those a lot. I thought it kept her character from being too pristine. I liked to see her make some questionable personal decisions. That's one thing I liked about the show: everyone had some serious warts to deal with, and I thought it made Adama's love for her all the more wonderful, and her loss at not being able to appreciate (relative) peace all the more tragic. A nice minor note, as it were.
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Post by Phantom Engineer on Mar 23, 2009 17:16:13 GMT -5
I thought it was frakin' great. 2 k's, poser! I don't know what that means so I don't know if I should thank you or damn you. But I never have.
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Mar 24, 2009 1:31:11 GMT -5
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Post by Trumpy's Magic Snout on Jun 23, 2009 19:06:33 GMT -5
Oh, and Tyrol going to Scotland (probably...or Ireland): GALEN Tyrol goes to the GAELIC lands. Cute. I think there's a little nod to another ship's engineer from a certain space set show in his choice of place.
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Post by Mod City on Jun 23, 2009 19:48:29 GMT -5
Oh, and Tyrol going to Scotland (probably...or Ireland): GALEN Tyrol goes to the GAELIC lands. Cute. I think there's a little nod to another ship's engineer from a certain space set show in his choice of place. Heh. I can't believe I never thought of that. Moore does have his roots in Star Trek, after all. I've been out of the BSG loop for a while, though I'm still looking forward to The Plan (whenever that comes out) and Caprica (though I'm not shelling out over $30 for a DVD of a television pilot).
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