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Post by Chuck on Sept 20, 2009 7:19:10 GMT -5
The mono mix is astonishing. Rubber Soul has the new mono mix, followed by the original stereo mix. I kept going back to the mono. How does the mono Revolver and Pepper sound? Incredible. They spent much more time on the mono mix than the stereo. And it sounds like it was recorded yesterday: crisp, clean, clear and in yo' face!
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Post by Mighty Jack on Sept 20, 2009 10:01:22 GMT -5
I don't know what the mono mixes sound like, but Revolver has been hit and miss for stereo. The tams are too hot on Taxman, and Paul's Bass too strong on "Dr. Robert", which normally has been a boon on these CDs. But I felt Dr. was one of Paul's rare missteps, I found his bass line choppy and fought against the flow of the melody. Having it buried a bit was actually preferable to me. Here it's much more of a presence. Here's an article where a guy offers up his opinions and give a side by side comparison... Mono vs StereoMy impressions on a few side by side comparisons of my new stereo CDs vs the old 80s CDs and 60s LP versions (I’ve been listening all day, on several systems, going back and forth between them all – including the early U.S. Capitol releases). HelpIt sounds great but compared to the early CD I didn’t hear a significant difference as Martin’s 80s mix set the standard for both old and new takes. I think the average listener wouldn’t care either way, but for those discernable fans, this is preferable. The individual instruments seem to pop out more - “Ticket To Ride” sounds stellar with Paul’s bass very strong, and the acoustics are crisp and clean on “I’ve Just Seen a Face”. Of note, I’d like the movie version to be released – I always dug that James Bond style intro to the title song. Beatles For SaleSignificantly stronger: A complaint I had of the original CDs was that they were so thin and tinny – this has much more punch. I didn’t have a problem with the handclaps on “8 Days A Week”. One I was very interested in was “Every Little Thing” with Ringo on timpani – I remember when it first went to CD I wondered who cut the balls off this tune… here, while the timpani is not overwhelmingly stronger, it is stronger and the mix has greater depth. I also am very happy to hear, that I can actually “hear” the lead guitar in the first verses on “I Don’t ant To Spoil the Party” Sgt PeppersThis was another that came off tepid and tinny on its original CD release. After some songs were remastered on the “Yellow Sub Songtrack”, its lack of musical weight became even more apparent and I found I couldn’t listen to the Pepper CD anymore. Now its brilliance has been restored. The details pop out on numbers like “Lovely Rita” and while I’ve never heard the mono version, I can’t imagine how the sweeping “A Day in the Life” could ever sound better than it does here in stereo (or “Tomorrow Never Knows” on Revolver for that matter”). The one disappointment? I’d hoped they could pull Paul’s bass and Ringo’s drums to the fore on “Good Morning”, these instruments are the backbone of this song and sadly the horn section has always buried them into obscurity. I’ve yet to hear a mix that remedies this, and in truth -while I miss the lead guitar- I still prefer listening to the bare bones anthology version. (Note: I’ve also heard from other’s that the new mono doesn’t fix this either because the song is too dense… this is a traditional stumbling block for mono – too much instrumentation/tracks can turn mono mixes to goo) With the BeatlesNot a huge difference from the handful of tracks I listened to – Ringo’s squeaky pedals can still be heard, lol. The right/left channel mix is much smoother than what was heard on my old Capitol record. I’ve heard though that the new mono is the definite preference for this and “Please, Please Me” A Hard Days NightWhat a great album and several differences are easy to hear. Bongos are more noticeable on the title song. “I Should Have Known Better” has the harmonica mistake (John misses a note). You can hear the hint of a voice or a cough near the end of the guitar solo on “And I Love Her”. Overall this features a warmer, richer sound, individual instrumentation and BG vox are more distinct. The White AlbumWOW! I don’t know what the mono sounds like (and I can’t speak to the original CD as I never owned it) but this stereo mix was like hearing this album for the first time. I’ve never heard this with such distinct and rich details, the White Album crackles with life and vibrancy. I was so impressed with the musicianship, arrangements and harmonies that I found myself enjoying songs I’d previously had no interest in (Martha My Dear). I liked this LP before but felt it was uneven… well I’m a convert, after hearing this mix the White Album has vaulted to one of my all time favorites. Even the lesser tracks offered something that tickled my eardrums. “Helter Skelter” rocks hard, it took my breath away and sent shivers down my spine. “Cry, Baby, Cry” has never had more punch and I had it on repeat for a half hour. I haven’t heard much from reviewers about the White Album and I can’t imagine why, even on my best stereo system the record never sounded as good as this CD (and I’ve never heard those introductory voices before Revolution #9 in the past? This was a flippin trip and it could have been subtitled, “Getting stoned without drug or drink”). Oh, and I love that the slip cover has the Beatles embossed like the original, not written in silver Yellow SubmarineTwo words… “Hey Bulldog” When they remastered the songs on the Yellow Sub songtrack I was mostly impressed, except for “Hey Bulldog”. Strangely -to my ears- the song had lost its bite. With this release the Bulldog’s back. The bass has more muscle, the lead guitar electrifies. The rest, especially “It’s All Too Much” (Kind of George’s own “Tomorrow Never Knows”) all sound great. There is one mono song in this box set. Yellow Sub restores the original mono mix for “It’s Only A Northern Song” (it was only truly mixed in mono, a stereo version was never done) Abbey RoadVery impressive, a huge improvement over the 80s release. Much more warmth, each voice and instrument is crisp (that damned BG hum is still present on “I Want You” (that’s the BG hum I’m speaking of, not the cool intended feedback at the end) – I can’t figure out why they couldn’t clean out the static). IMHO the Beatles have never been better musically, Ringo –well I’ll defer to Mr. Atari on this- but I think the oft knocked Ringo was brilliant, he had such a distinct style towards the end that simply said “Beatles” – George=genius, John=great and Paul, like Ringo, I think this is his best work. Anyone who doesn’t think McCartney wasn’t one of the all time best rock bassists needs to listen to this and get an education.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Sept 21, 2009 8:55:24 GMT -5
Thoughts on the rest of the stereo CDs
Please, Please Me Despite the vox all being channel into one ear, this wasn’t too bad, until we get to the title song. I’ve heard many versions of this -and I knew Martin patched in that final piece at the end- but with this stereo mix, especially when you have phones on, the sound is soooo off, so completely jarring in that spot that I can’t believe the new mix wasn’t tweeked a bit. I know they didn’t want to do anything to alter the songs but this should have been an exception. Mono is traditionally preferred on this one and I’d certainly like a copy (there are 2 mono mixes on this disc as stereo mixes were never done for those songs)
I also finished listening to all of With the Beatles and it also suffers from jarring patchwork but it happens several times (The led harmonica in “Little Child”, which also has some talking in the BG), also the BG vocals in Money are too hot and frankly this was some piss poor work from George and his engineers. Unless they release the mono’s individually I’m going to stick with the original CD release on this one. They might be thin and the bass weak, but at least the mix is smooth and doesn’t take me out of the groove I get into when I listen. This ended up my least favorite CD in the set.
Rubber Soul & Magical Mystery Tour are what they have always been. Both are great but neither yielded an “OMG that’s significantly better than anything I’ve ever heard before!” The stereo mix Chuck has been talking about on his Mono Rubber Soul CD? As with Help there are 3 mixes. The Mono CDs includes the mono AND George Martin’s original 1960s stereo mix on one disc. The Stereo CD draws from Martin’s 1987 stereo mix.
Let It Be There’s not much else you could do with this and I didn’t expect anything different, but strangely it does seem to have more punch than my album, it also seems a hair faster? Maybe that’s in my imagination. For the most part I still prefer the Naked mix but Phil Spector actually didn’t do too bad a job with this (though I think he slowed down “Across the Universe” too much – George Martin’s mix with the birds was too sped up – it wasn’t until Naked that it was ‘just right’) Oh, and I think “I, Me, Mine” is very dramatic with that added orchestration.
Past Masters Nothing much different with this disc other than they’ve divided mono/stereo mixes between sets. This one still has mono mixes for songs where there was no stereo. This is a nice way to get all the singles, B-side and EP tracks that were never put on the albums. Hey Jude, Day Tripper, Paperback Writer, She Loves You, alt versions of “Across the Universe” and “Let it Be” and the little known “I’ll Get You”, which has always been one of my favorites – I have the original CDs so this wasn’t needed but since it tidies everything up there would have been complaints had it not been included.
The DVD The mini docs runs just over 3 minutes on avg. I liked them but they are pretty sparse and reveal nothing new. I would have padded this DVD out with the promotional films (precursor to the music videos) that they made and more thoughts on production, mentions -with sound clips if possible- of songs that didn’t make the cut and why (even with Anthology there’s material out there – Get Back/Let It Be has yielded a lot of boots and a some “White Album” material wound up on solo albums, such as an early version of “Imagine”)
Packaging CDs are packaged in a gatefold; all include a booklet loaded with pretty pictures, original liner notes if applicable, historical and recording notes (these notes do get to repetitive – I pretty much “get” the bounce track concept w/out having it stated and stated and then stated again). They still can’t do justice to those beautiful full size album covers (even with reading glasses I can hardly make out the Magic Mystery Tour comic strip) but it’s a worthy effort. Only real complaint is that the CDs are a pain to pull out of the sleeve. I hate getting my fingers on the front of the disc itself, but I’ve found it impossible to slide out any other way.
White album includes a mini poster of the original full sized poster, but no individual glossies (and my original W.A. offered real glossies, not the paper versions that came out later in the late 70s and 80s – I still treasure those are cool keepsakes) – Pepper’s shows what the cardboard inserts look like, but offer no mini versions.
All of it is collected in a black box, with slipcover, that seals with a hidden magnet. There’s a piece of ribbon to string under the discs (placed in duel shelves) to make it easier to lift up and pull out the CD you want to listen to. I’d have preferred a “spine out” case, but what the heck, not a major complaint.
Addendum: All told, with a few exceptions, I was happy. This took me back to a simple, sweeter time. For me the Beatles were transcendent, life altering. Their music remains as fresh and powerful as it did the first time I heard it and the updated releases took great songs and made them better.
3 Things I Was Most Impressed with (These CDs were remarkable upgrades to my ears) The White Album Abbey Road Beatles For Sale
3 Things I Was Most Disappointed With 1. With The Beatles – Sloppy, sloppy work 2. Revolver (Not because it was horrible, but it’s my favorite album and the few miss-steps add a blemish to perfection) 3. The ending ‘patch in’ done on the song “Please, Please, Me” (It should have been remastered and smoothed out)
MVP Paul McCartney – He’s always been great, but his bass work shines anew.
Mono Mixes I will buy should they offer them individually Please, Please, Me With the Beatles Revolver Sgt Peppers (I loved the stereo but I’m curious about the differences)
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Post by quinnmartin on Oct 23, 2009 18:22:24 GMT -5
Just got my Mono Box yesterday, and have been sampling it as much as possible. Some random thoughts....
* With the Beatles is noticably improved over the original mono CD. Nothing really different about it, just sounds warmer and less harsh/tinny, esp. when you crank something like "Money".
* "Taxman", "When I'm 64", "Run For Your Life", and "Dr. Robert" all sound MUCH better in mono.
* I prefer the stereo "Fixing a Hole" much better than mono. The isolation of Paul's vocal in the stereo mix is missed, and the harspichord dominates the mix a bit too much in the mono version.
* Not sure how I feel about the faster "She's Leaving Home". It was a bit disconcerting the first couple of listens.
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Post by Chuck on Oct 23, 2009 20:23:51 GMT -5
"If I Needed Someone" sound SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better in Mono. Always thought so.
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Post by quinnmartin on Oct 24, 2009 10:07:03 GMT -5
"If I Needed Someone" sound SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better in Mono. Always thought so. The remastered stereo version sounds better to my ears, but the lopsided mix makes the mono version much superior when listening on headphones or in my car by default. The mono version has more punch, but the stereo version highlights the vocals better. For a song like "Hey Bulldog", the mono sounds a lot better because the more agressive in your face mix works better for the song. But on a song like "Nowhere Man", I don't think the mono mix is "better", just different. Though of course I'm comparing the remastered stereo versions, which have more sonic "upgrades" than the remastered mono versions. Even with the mono version of "Nowhere Man" being much more balanced, the new stereo version sounds more lush and warm, and George's Strat sounds SO much better to my ears during his solo on the new stereo version. So far, Beatles for Sale, the White Album, and Magical Mystery Tour are all much better in the new stereo versions in any listening environment. Rubber Soul through Sgt. Peppersare all better, for the most part, in mono when listening on headphones or in the car. On a regular stereo, it depends on the particular song which one I prefer. I'm not sure about "Help!". I haven't really had a strong preference for either mix yet. The mono has more punch and rocks more, but the arrangements were still simple enough that GM could get a pretty good stereo mix most of the time, which brings out the vocals and lead instruments better. The original '65 stereo mix of "Help!" is not that good, though. I much prefer mono to that stereo mix. The most suprising thing so far about the mono set is how much I'm enjoying "When I'm 64". It's unbelievable how much better it sounds. That song, "Taxman", and "Hey Bulldog" have been the biggest "jawdropping moments of mono greatness" for me so far.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 24, 2009 15:19:44 GMT -5
I wish they'd offer them individually, even through an exclusive website to avoid confussion on store shelves. I only want a handfull of these on mono. The first 2 releases for sure, Peppers, probably Soul and that's about it. So that's my hesitation in buying the set. 230+ dollars for 4 albums is steep. Oh and I like the stereo "If I Needed Someone".
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Post by quinnmartin on Oct 24, 2009 16:05:37 GMT -5
I bet at some point they'll be offered individually. I think they were very surpised at the demand for mono. At least the first couple really need to be released on mono.
So far the remastered stereo Beatles for Sale has been my favorite thing from the reissue project. I always liked it, even in the shoddy mono CD version that was all I'd ever heard, but the remastered stereo version is so much better.
Now we just need George M to go back to the original tapes and un-do some of the bounce downs and give us proper stereo re-mixes of Revolver and Sgt. Peppers.
Listening to Revolver mono again...this is one nasty, snarling record in mono. Even something like "Here There and Everywhere" has a rawness to it. Not sure if it's just the natural "muddiness" of having those complex arrangments smashed together in a mono mix, or if they just ran hotter when they did the mono mix.
I do prefer the stereo version for many of the tracks, though.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 25, 2009 19:25:14 GMT -5
They could have re-work a few of these. I know purest worry about that practice but even Martin went and tweeked Soul and Help in '87. There are a few other individual songs, even whole albums that he could do that too as well.
I was impressed with the stero Beatles For Sale as well
Oh and everyone, I don't mean to keep harping on the mono box set - I realize I'm repeating myself. It's a debate I've wrestled with... "to buy or not to buy" for the past month.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Nov 3, 2009 1:38:15 GMT -5
I got the chance to listen to these stereo CDs on a better system, sans headphones - I wont talk about every disc, but their first 2 albums are much improved listening this way. They weren't made for headphones (unless you like half the song in one ear and the other half, in the other).
* If you've only heard Peppers on a lesser system, you haven't heard Peppers. While I don't think this was the strongest material they ever wrote, the production, instrumentation and arragments are stunning. Even the lesser "Within You and Without You" sounds amazing - the instruments swirl and surround you. "A Day In The Life" is transcendant. I love how after Paul's bit, John's voice pans from left to right and back to far left.
* Revolver was jaw dropping. 'Nuff said.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Nov 21, 2009 3:27:03 GMT -5
Deep Discount is having its sale - but this time it's off manufacturer's list price (which unbelievably, means that's some of my items in my wish list actually went UP in price! So "boo" to that). Regardless, they included CDs this time out. Beatles mono is on sale until Nov 29th for $209 and some change. Cheapest I've seen it so yes, I grit my teeth, prayed for no financial emergencies for the next month and bought one. Hope I enjoy them. Don't let me down Beatles.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Dec 1, 2009 0:08:09 GMT -5
I received my Monos – here are a few of my first impressions, headphone use…
First song I wanted to hear was Hey Bulldog and it is definitely worth the price of admission. Damn that thing is amazing in mono
Sgt Peppers: Of course I had to dive into this album first. The title song and Lucy are both great. I prefer the mono vocals for Lucy; the phasing makes it spaceier.
Getting Better and Fixing a Hole I like less than the stereo versions. Fixing is thinner, weightless. The lead guitar lacks presence and I didn't care for the drums.
She’s Leaving Home is faster, a bit tinny (something I noticed on much of the album). Paul sounds like he’s singing in the bathroom. Though it lacks the warmth and fullness of the original, it’s not as laborious. The strings don’t sit on your chest like some soap opera theme. Despite the tinny sound, I like it better.
The next 3 songs all reveal a few new details, the airness that defeats Fixing, actually serves these tunes nicely. And yes, that makes even “When I’m 64” a fun, fresh listen.
Rita (with Friends) feels the same, Good Morning – the horns are less to the fore, giving Paul and Ringo the deserving front stage and Harrison’s lead hits like a stinger. The horn and animal noises are still too heavy for my blood.
With SLH, the Peppers reprise is nearly a new entity. As with Bulldog it’s a song that’s tougher & cooler in mono (though Paul’s scatting is more an annoyance than cool)
A Day in the Life is definitely better in stereo. Mono just can’t do justice to its sweep and grandeur. Take off the ‘phones and listen to this in a big room surrounded by 4 speakers in stereo. This was the only real disappointment I had with the mono as a whole. To the point where I might just skip it (and put on the stereo version) in subsequent listens.
I didn’t think a simple thing as stereo/mono mix could alter the feel of an album, but Pepper’s as a whole is crunchier, pushing the more straight out rock than psychedelic vibe (though that remains).
I also popped on Revolver, and it’s true that the mono vs. stereo debate comes down to a song-by-song comparison. Some like “Taxman” (smoother production, less jarring when individual instruments pipe in) “Dr. Robert” and “Eleanor Rigby” (none of those extreme L&R separations) are superior in mono. Some like “Tomorrow Never Knows” (though interesting to hear a few different loop flourishes in mono) and “She Said, She Said” (too thin and gutless in mono) are absolute unmatched perfection in stereo. “Here, There and Everywhere” is more rocky, raw - not sure if that’s better, just different in a good way.
The packaging for this mono set is a delight. They mimic the LPs to a tee and I like the CD covering and that the packaging is bigger so I don’t struggle and get fingerprints all over my discs when I take them out to play.
On these few listens I’m happy with the purchase. Deep Discount’s sale is over, it's back to $237
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Post by Mighty Jack on Dec 2, 2009 6:44:49 GMT -5
And after a few more listens and comparisons…
Stereo Vs. Mono
Prefer it in Mono: Please, Please Me This mono mix has rendered the stereo obsolete. Anything I said in the negative about this album…. Disregard it. This is so crisp and clean on mono I don’t think I’ll ever listen to the stereo version of this record ever again. This is the definitive and authentic mix.
With The Beatles is also much better in mono… but I still like the way Capitol split up the album. Beethoven works better as an album opener and that entire record rocks with all those covers. And Meet the Beatles improves with the singles. So - while superior in mono, I’ll still gravitate towards Capitol’s first 2 albums when I’m in the mood for this one (and when I do listen, I tend to listen to both LPs back to back)
Prefer it in Stereo Help! The title song? I Hate it in mono, absolutely HATE the mono mix. Too much airiness in the overall sound, John’s vocals are tinny and muffled, and lack the same urgency and passion of the stereo mix… ANY stereo mix, Capitol, ‘65 or ‘87 versions. I’ll skip the mono on this tune, and I find the stereo is all together tighter on all phases of the album.
Ditto with A Hard Days Night, though Paul’s voice doesn’t crack on the mono “If I Fell”. There's nothing wrong with the mono, I just prefer it (for example - I'll Be Back. Harmonies seem tighter, I like the fullness of the acoustic guitars in stereo)
The White Album The mono’s got bite, but I like the warmth and fullness of the stereo. Paul’s bass is amazing in that format and loses some punch on mono. The mono has some interesting (and terrible) stuff – Ringo sounds like a Chipmunk on DPMB, the lead guitar lacks presence on Monkey and I miss the end of Helter Skelter. Still, I love that reverb on Ringo’s drum on the mono Skelter.
Draw Magical Mystery Tour – the mix sounds pretty much the same. So I’ll just stick with stereo
Rubber Soul – Both versions sound great. Though “Run For Your Life” though is vastly superior in mono. There’s way too much separation on the stereo mix, which neuters the poor thing.
Beatles for Sale – enjoyed both equally for different reasons. An example: “I Don’t to Spoil the Party”, I like the guitar on the stereo, and the distinct drums on mono.
My opinion differs song by song Revolver & Sgt. Peppers: I am so divided on these albums. Some songs are absolutely better in mono, while others are definitely better in stereo and then there are a few that are different but great either way.
I’m listening to Peppers a lot – primarily Lucy, SLH, Mr. Kite Peppers reprise (though I’ve already tired of 64, just don’t like the song) and strangely I can’t get enough of Rita. I’m not sure why, it doesn’t seem all that different, but I’m really rockin’ on it and hit replay a lot.
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Post by quinnmartin on Dec 3, 2009 22:16:52 GMT -5
Great stuff MJ. Glad to see you finally enjoying the mono box.
And yes, mono Bulldog is indeed an amazing thing.
I also didn't really care for the mono Help! title track. I'd always heard that John preferred that vocal, and that it was considered the better versions - but in this case I think George Martin was right, and the lead vocal take used in the stereo mix is the better one.
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Post by Phantom Engineer on May 21, 2010 21:45:52 GMT -5
I'm arriving late to the party after just recently getting my hands on the Remasters. I have an issue like a lot of you with the 60s extreme stereo. But thanks to the magic of digital editing I'm doing something about it. I open a song in Sound Forge, make a copy of it, reverse the channels, lower the volume of the copy and mix it over the original. It preserves the stereo separation but to a lesser degree and to me sounds more balanced. The mono Hey Bulldog is great but I also like some of the stereo separation. I think my custom mix is a nice compromise. I did a little more tweaking on Misery. There's a little descending piano riff in the bridge that follows the "I'll remember all the little things we've done" line. I have a bootleg outtake where the riff is played on guitar. So I lifted that and dropped it over the piano riff with a left/right mix of the two. It turned out pretty cool, so now I have a homemade unique version. This is fun, I may have to go through each song and do my own remix.
Oh, and thanks for all of your observations in this thread MJ, I find your comments very helpful.
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