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Post by Ford Prefect on Jul 31, 2009 2:29:02 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, what don't you like about Rifftrax? They're providing more options than ever before with a lot of products and performers. For the record, it is this: A lack of aura, a glut of material, and lackluster quality. Yes, Rifftrax can be funny, but every time I go to the website I feel like I'm in a disgusting tourist trap store, picking through trashy souvenirs trying to find that one classy t-shirt to take home. I actually liked RT more when there weren't so many options--hence the aura problem. I don't want to go to my favorite bands website and be inundated with crap from a bunch of younger bands who are making the same kind of music, but not normally as good. Translated: I don't care if some random guy can crack funny--if it's not MST related, I'd rather invite friends over and do it ourselves. Honestly, we can be just as funny. Promise. My only big beef with RT itself--meaning Mike, Kevin and Bill--is their movie selection. Sure, you can make jokes about anything--neat. So can I. I like the celebration and subversion of kitsch into camp that characterized MST and characterizes CT. So there--don't judge me on these because I recognize that they are strange reasons, but they are valid reasons as well. I've been a fan of MST3K since 1995 and I enjoy Cinematic Titanic, but I have a great appreciation for Rifftrax. Personally I like the fact that they're going after more current films and bringing in fresh talent. Today's new movie will soon be tomorrow's old movie after all and the podcast format seems like the most effective way of getting material out on a timely basis. Plus, I'd hate for the art of movie riffing to end with the MST cast. Rifftrax Presents and the iRiff program both help the guys find new people to bring in so they won't have to be recording riffs well into their retirement. That said, for certain fans who are still coming to the site as a way to recreate the specific feel of the original series, I can understand why they aren't into that kinda thing. What do you think about the shorts, VOD features, and DVDs? Do you feel like these releases are a "celebration and subversion of kitsch into camp" or do they still lack that aura? I'm not trying to say you should like everything Rifftrax produces, but I thought old school fans would appreciate their efforts to include more MST-style material in the catalog.
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Post by quinnmartin on Jul 31, 2009 7:41:28 GMT -5
I just can't get into Cinematic Titanic no matter how hard I try. I comes off way too formulaic and stiff. I just don't feel like they are that into it. It's like they're there to do a job and go home. I just wish a CT Live show would come to Houston so I can see if it's better live as I have a feeling it will be. You are correct. The live show is light years better than the DVD's, and I really like the DVD's for the most part. You see a lot more chemistry and warmth and interaction between them at the live show, and I found that the DVD's don't seem so cold and scripted after seeing them live. Though on the other hand, it was hard to even make it through the Blood of the Vampires DVD because it was so much of a letdown compared to seeing it done live.
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Post by Fred Burroughs on Jul 31, 2009 8:28:22 GMT -5
Good, good, now they just need to come to Houston.
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Post by Mogol on Jul 31, 2009 8:54:20 GMT -5
I just can't get into Cinematic Titanic no matter how hard I try. I comes off way too formulaic and stiff. I just don't feel like they are that into it. It's like they're there to do a job and go home. I just wish a CT Live show would come to Houston so I can see if it's better live as I have a feeling it will be. You are correct. The live show is light years better than the DVD's, and I really like the DVD's for the most part. You see a lot more chemistry and warmth and interaction between them at the live show, and I found that the DVD's don't seem so cold and scripted after seeing them live. Though on the other hand, it was hard to even make it through the Blood of the Vampires DVD because it was so much of a letdown compared to seeing it done live. Well then, let's hope that some of the comments people have made here and at the CT forum are right, and the next DVD, recorded after months of live shows to perfect the act, will reflect the same chemistry and warmth people love about the live shows. If the point of this delay is to flip-flop the schedule, so that a studio recording (hopefully not a recorded live show) is the final step with that movie before moving on to others, rather than the first step, I'm happy to wait since it should be a better product in the end.
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Post by quinnmartin on Jul 31, 2009 10:03:11 GMT -5
You are correct. The live show is light years better than the DVD's, and I really like the DVD's for the most part. You see a lot more chemistry and warmth and interaction between them at the live show, and I found that the DVD's don't seem so cold and scripted after seeing them live. Though on the other hand, it was hard to even make it through the Blood of the Vampires DVD because it was so much of a letdown compared to seeing it done live. Well then, let's hope that some of the comments people have made here and at the CT forum are right, and the next DVD, recorded after months of live shows to perfect the act, will reflect the same chemistry and warmth people love about the live shows. If the point of this delay is to flip-flop the schedule, so that a studio recording (hopefully not a recorded live show) is the final step with that movie before moving on to others, rather than the first step, I'm happy to wait since it should be a better product in the end. Of course, the best part of the live show is a room full of people laughing at all the jokes. Riffs just seem much funnier in that setting, and you can't replicate that at home. I laughed out loud more to CT live than I've ever done to even my favorite MST3K episode, and it was the same way when I saw The Movie in a theater. But yeah, hopefully they'll continue to become more natural and interact more with each other during the riffing. I do think they're hampered by not having any sort of host segments where you see them together. For me, in MST that really helped create the sense that you were watching characters watch a movie together and make funny comments - not listening to Joel/Mike/Trace/Kevin/Bill/Josh perform a script - which is of course what they were doing.
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Post by mrtorso on Jul 31, 2009 11:04:26 GMT -5
and I found that the DVD's don't seem so cold and scripted after seeing them live. Except for that one DVD where you can see Joel actually flipping the pages of his script. That bothers me so much. But they did get better once they started doing some live shows. Everyone bags on RiffTrax for having a "GLUT" of releases. There have only been 15 full movie RiffTrax released this year. With 7 of them being the re-dos of the Legend Mike Solo releases. In 30 weeks. With some shorts sprinkled in. MST3K episodes were made in a week which included all the writing and shooting. So the argument that they "crank them out too fast" is pretty flimsy at best.
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Post by sirhamhat on Jul 31, 2009 11:51:03 GMT -5
I was glad that Joel clarified his poor choice of words in regards to the DVD releases, but I'm still freaked out about what episodes are going to make it to DVD. Alien Factor, East Meets Watts, and Danger on Tiki Island are 3 perfect films for CT.
As I stated earlier in this thread, I saw Danger on Tiki Island live in Atlanta and it was great! Instantly my favorite that CT has done. So, I still wish that he'd clarify if the 3 films that they perform live will ever make it to DVD... After all the performances of these 3, aside from being perfect CT fodder, I'm sure they would be pitch perfect by the time they could record these in the studio. Atlanta was the first time they performed Danger on Tiki Island live, and it was flawless... I can only imagine how greatly they've refined it by now.
Their previous business model was perfect, and it seems extremely strange to alter that. Perform live in a handful of cities, hammer out the bumps through performance, and then record and release the episode. Most people get a chance to see them live and the agoraphobic fans lurking in the shadows get to enjoy their DVDs in the comfort of their unusually moist apartments. All MSTies and CT fans are happy! Win win! I wish they would have stuck to this model instead of tiring themselves out with an all-out tour. I was extremely grateful to see them live--a highlight in my life, but the end product, the studio DVD, is the thing that will last forever...
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Post by Mod City on Jul 31, 2009 13:28:05 GMT -5
Without getting into the whole CT vs. RT thing, I'll say I'm saddened they're scaling back their DVD production, even if it's only temporary. I am, at the closest, six hours from the nearest urban center, and going to places where CT might perform is a major undertaking for me (and people like me, out in the sticks). The DVDs are how I keep up with these guys.
I'm sure they're all having a decent time performing this stuff live, and I have no doubt the crowds love it, and that's great. But I don't think it should represent the entire experience. I don't hate a crowd, but I have a hard time believing the laughter on studio DVDs isn't just as contagious in a group of five or six at home.
I also don't know what kind of profit they're seeing on studio DVDs compared to live shows. Ninety-nine percent of the time business models change because the old one wasn't making enough money.
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Post by Broadsword on Jul 31, 2009 13:54:47 GMT -5
Well that stinks, I enjoy the DVD's quite a lot. While I don't think it's as good as MST3K but RT isn't either and I enjoy both. Oh well when they are ready to make new DVD's I'll be here waiting for them.
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Post by Skyroniter on Jul 31, 2009 15:43:29 GMT -5
Seems they would need to put out the DVDs to keep up interest. "Former cast of Mystery Science Theater" will only take you so far.
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Post by quinnmartin on Jul 31, 2009 16:54:17 GMT -5
Seems they would need to put out the DVDs to keep up interest. "Former cast of Mystery Science Theater" will only take you so far. Exactly. Even the Dead put out records. DVD's get reviewed and mentioned in national media, while a live show only gets press in that market.
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Post by krokodyle on Jul 31, 2009 17:02:59 GMT -5
Wow...disappointed that they've decided to change gears, for whatever reason(s). I was beginning to wonder what was going on with a new release, but certainly didn't expect this.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Aug 1, 2009 1:59:27 GMT -5
Everyone keeps saying that it's better live, but I don't see it. While I had a GREAT time and enjoyed myself a lot... it wasn't the funniest experience of my life. In truth, the DVD for Blood of the Vampire was much, much funnier.
For me, live was great, the laughter of the crowd, meeting the gang... all wonderful. But I still enjoy, in many ways prefer just kicking back with a pizza and some Smirnoff and watching my Discs (and that I can do this whenever the mood strikes me is a great advantage)
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Post by wedestroymyths on Aug 1, 2009 3:34:59 GMT -5
Today's new movie will soon be tomorrow's old movie after all and the podcast format seems like the most effective way of getting material out on a timely basis. Plus, I'd hate for the art of movie riffing to end with the MST cast. Rifftrax Presents and the iRiff program both help the guys find new people to bring in so they won't have to be recording riffs well into their retirement. That said, for certain fans who are still coming to the site as a way to recreate the specific feel of the original series, I can understand why they aren't into that kinda thing. What do you think about the shorts, VOD features, and DVDs? Do you feel like these releases are a "celebration and subversion of kitsch into camp" or do they still lack that aura? I'm not trying to say you should like everything Rifftrax produces, but I thought old school fans would appreciate their efforts to include more MST-style material in the catalog. What part of I don't like Rifftrax don't you get? Great--you disagree with me. I intend to check out the DVDs and the shorts eventually, but they're not high on my priority list for stated reasons. As for the art of riffing dying--it won't die. I just have a lot of funny friends and if I'm going to listen to people who weren't a part of MST riff, I'd rather listen to my friends. Heck, I'd rather hand my friends each 4 bucks or whatever to have them riff than pay to hear other amateurs. If it's not the MST-folk, i'd rather do it myself. Are we really so lazy that if our riffing heroes aren't doing it we have to pay second tier talent to make jokes for us? Is it that hard to mock Nicholas Cage? MST made movie riffing an art, and did some cool, fun things with the psychology of watching bad movies...I greatly respect the contributions of all parties involved. That's why I am interested in MST related riffs--but honestly, do I like Joel McHale? Do I need to hear him riffing with Mike? Not in the least. He's alright on The Soup. I guess? What about Chad Vader (uggh)? Why not just keep it simple instead of bringing in all of these annoying, gimmicky guests? Anyway, I don't understand this trying to convince me--I didn't even say "Rifftrax is bad,"--I only said I didn't like it. There's nothing to argue.
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Post by angilasman on Aug 1, 2009 10:34:23 GMT -5
Let's take stock of exactly what has been said:
1) The Titans are taking a break after their tour.
2) The three films won't have studio versions recorded right now because they intend to use them for more live performances.
Now, that's really not so scary. Though I wish that they would have something ready in time for Christmas.
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