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Post by Bix Dugan on Aug 11, 2009 8:34:09 GMT -5
"Dante writing the Inferno today would reserve for the worst fiends a most horrific punishment: watching all this series for eternity. This sophomoric dreck is worse than any of the "bad movies" the series lampoons. This attempt at being campy fails--it is merely bad."
I'm an Athiest, but watching MST3K for all of eternity sounds like Heaven to me. Now, if I was forced to watch, say, "Friends" or "American Idol" for all etenity...Yikes!
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Post by Treadwell on Aug 11, 2009 13:31:37 GMT -5
And Treadwell, the Rifftrax guys did do Casablanca. I am obviously way behind on my Rifftrax!
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Post by theprofessor on Aug 11, 2009 14:51:05 GMT -5
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say that SOMETIMES I can agree with these people. It doesn't come as a surprise to find that many of them are referencing the Sci-Fi era, as I also feel that they had become a bit too harsh on the films in those years. During the Joel era, not every film was portrayed as being absolutely terrible and unwatchable. For example, after the original Gamera film Joel thanks the Mads for not sending such a bad movie that week. Crow confesses his enjoyment of First Spaceship on Venus at the end of that episode. Both The Beatniks and The Magic Sword would have a few mentions about the film being decent in the episode. Sure, they still lambasted the films but they managed to show some reverence towards them as well. Once the show had shifted onto Sci-Fi, though, any chance that a film would be considered even somewhat decent was thrown out the door. That overwhelming negativity works when you are watching, say, Werewolf or Horror of Party Beach but it seems out of place in the few decent ones like Time Chasers or Diabolik. Of course, most of these reviewers blow it way out of proportion but, sometimes, even I get tired of the negativity in the Sci-Fi era (and most Rifftrax). Just my two cents.
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Post by doctorz on Aug 11, 2009 15:15:22 GMT -5
I actually like reading this stuff because I like to see what detractor's think. It sort of centers me after a fashion. I adore MST3K for many reasons. Mostly this criticism comes from people who take films way too seriously. A lot of it is disgust and anger at what they see as unwarranted criticism targeted against a lot of hard working people who against the odds and budgets managed to get a movie made. Yes it is a lot of work to produce even a "Santa and the Ice Cream Bunny" but once it's out there it gets judged by the public and there's nothing much that can be done about that. Some of the films MST3K did were terrible, some cheesy and possibly a few that didn't deserve the treatment. I thought in most of the episodes the films were treated to good natured ribbing and the guys only resorted to being just mean when they had to. The critics can have their say but it won't change my opinion that MST3K is my favorite body of TV shows ever. I especially liked the German's review. I think he believes you need a college degree to understand comedy or at least study several weighty books on the subject written by octogenarian British Oxford Profs to properly do correct comedy! It was either written by a real German or someone who wanted to do the stereotype of the serious German who thinks that all Americans are stupid morons who fritter away their lives with mindless TV shows and don't know or even care about all the trouble in the world.
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Post by Bix Dugan on Aug 12, 2009 7:01:57 GMT -5
There's trouble in the world?
Some people have thought about some things WAY to hard. If you've seen the King of the Hill episode, where Bobby takes a college-level class on "comedy", you know what I mean.
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Post by A deadly bee on Aug 19, 2010 7:03:44 GMT -5
an0ther bad review
"If you look in the dictionary under the word overrated it says "See Mystery Science Theater 3000". If you look under the word pretentious it says "See Mike Nelson". One of the reasons it was so easy to feel contempt for Mike was the way his own stupid skits sucked a hundred times worse than many of the movies he tried to make fun of. His skits were always about something stupid like destroying planets or the planet of the apes or ancient Rome or whatever. His songs were even worse and really made you wonder why someone didn't sit Nelson down and explain to him that when your own material sucks this badly you're the last person who should be talking about anyone else's creative misfires. Mike played himself on this show and was utterly unconvincing unless of course he really is awkward and wimpy and does nothing but stand around with a vaguely puzzled look on his face.
Obviously this won't be one of those reviews that says things like "This show was the crowning triumph of western civilization! My Mom said so!" Since the whole premise of this show was making fun of lame material the viewers couldn't help but notice how overwhelmingly stupid the show itself was in so many ways. The thought of someone like Mike Nelson trying to make fun of anyone else in the world was probably the funniest aspect of this whole show. I guess he felt qualified since after all he was on this show where he skipped around with puppets and sang little pixie songs...and then there was that show he did where he skipped around with puppets and sang little pixie songs...and, uh, did I mention he was on a show where he skipped around with puppets and sang little pixie songs? Wow! What an impressive resume Mumbling Mike Nelson had!
Mike and his staff should have stuck with making fun of awful black and white movies from the 50's since even their own atrocious material couldn't help but look good in comparison. Unfortunately they made the mistake of frequently trying to ridicule more recently made movies which no matter how bad were still often superior to the amateurish comedy skits on their own show. Plus Mike often tried making fun of people who still have real careers in the real entertainment industry unlike Mike Nelson who has nothing but a canceled puppet show and a cult following of Harold Lauder/Rupert Pupkin types. And at least the people in those movies hadn't been reduced to working on a puppet show yet. Mike's fans take this stupid show very seriously but not quite as seriously as they take themselves. If you thought Trekkies needed to get a life you should get a load of Nelson's fans.
Part of what makes it so funny when this overrated show gets knocked down a few pegs is the way Mike's fans like to get snotty about every other TV show and movie in the world but fall to pieces when someone points out how lame their bland darling was. So much time is spent defending Mumbling Mike from smack-downs I guess the motto of the Mike Nelson fan club is something like "Mike Nelson: He wasn't quite as lame as people say he was" or maybe even "Mike Nelson: At least he wasn't Jim Varney!"
Mentioning Varney serves as a reminder that the skits on this stupid show were down on the same level with Varney's movies no matter how much Nelson liked to put on airs that he was doing "cerebral" humor. Throwing in pretentious remarks here and there doesn't really make a show deep. Especially not when the original material is far worse than the movies being ridiculed. And the less said about the stupid songs the better. I defy anyone to try watching this show without fast-forwarding through the bits with either Mike and the puppets or Mary Jo Pehl and the man in the ape suit. The only reason I don't dump on Pehl as much is because I think she might have made a better star for this show than Nelson.
It may seem like I'm being a bit harsh on this stupid show but after hearing how good it supposedly was I checked it out and saw that in reality it sucked. So I figured if you live by the "riff" you die by the "riff". And I like to remind people who like it that it was just a show and they should really just relax."
its from imdb
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Post by msmystie3000 on Aug 19, 2010 7:33:56 GMT -5
Speaking of negative reviewers, how many of y'all have read this: I, Robot: The Shame of Mystery Science Theater 3000 by Chris Fujiwara. I'll give the guy credit for one thing--he did some research. He at least watched The Movie and read the ACEG. Like many ranters, though, he gets more riled up about what MST represents to him, "a viewing public paralyzed by fear, desperate for any externalization of a comforting 'distance' to protect them from recognizing their own anxieties writ large in the image unspooling from the past not dead enough to suit them." It's kind of sad, actually. I read a very interesting book by Fujiwara about Jacques Tourneur: The Cinema of Nightfall. Fujiwara's written about other famous directors and is obviously an old-movie buff. It almost seems his dislike of MST stems from his dislike of "[t]he irrelevant yocks that frequently greet [classic] films... when they show at a revival house or a college auditorium." Someone needs to stick his head in some ice water! ....and what the heck is a "Yock"? A Yob-Jock?
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Post by msmystie3000 on Aug 19, 2010 7:35:59 GMT -5
" Dante writing the Inferno today would reserve for the worst fiends a most horrific punishment: watching all this series for eternity. This sophomoric dreck is worse than any of the "bad movies" the series lampoons. This attempt at being campy fails--it is merely bad." I'm an Athiest, but watching MST3K for all of eternity sounds like Heaven to me. Now, if I was forced to watch, say, "Friends" or "American Idol" for all etenity...Yikes! I'm not an athiest but I'd say the same thing! Eternity with MST3K is HEEEEAAAVVVEEENNNN! ;D
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Post by msmystie3000 on Aug 19, 2010 7:38:35 GMT -5
There's trouble in the world? Some people have thought about some things WAY to hard. If you've seen the King of the Hill episode, where Bobby takes a college-level class on "comedy", you know what I mean. Oh, lordy! I saw that KoTH episode!
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Post by msmystie3000 on Aug 19, 2010 7:43:54 GMT -5
an0ther bad review "If you look in the dictionary under the word overrated it says "See Mystery Science Theater 3000". If you look under the word pretentious it says "See Mike Nelson". One of the reasons it was so easy to feel contempt for Mike was the way his own stupid skits sucked a hundred times worse than many of the movies he tried to make fun of. His skits were always about something stupid like destroying planets or the planet of the apes or ancient Rome or whatever. His songs were even worse and really made you wonder why someone didn't sit Nelson down and explain to him that when your own material sucks this badly you're the last person who should be talking about anyone else's creative misfires. Mike played himself on this show and was utterly unconvincing unless of course he really is awkward and wimpy and does nothing but stand around with a vaguely puzzled look on his face. Obviously this won't be one of those reviews that says things like "This show was the crowning triumph of western civilization! My Mom said so!" Since the whole premise of this show was making fun of lame material the viewers couldn't help but notice how overwhelmingly stupid the show itself was in so many ways. The thought of someone like Mike Nelson trying to make fun of anyone else in the world was probably the funniest aspect of this whole show. I guess he felt qualified since after all he was on this show where he skipped around with puppets and sang little pixie songs...and then there was that show he did where he skipped around with puppets and sang little pixie songs...and, uh, did I mention he was on a show where he skipped around with puppets and sang little pixie songs? Wow! What an impressive resume Mumbling Mike Nelson had! Mike and his staff should have stuck with making fun of awful black and white movies from the 50's since even their own atrocious material couldn't help but look good in comparison. Unfortunately they made the mistake of frequently trying to ridicule more recently made movies which no matter how bad were still often superior to the amateurish comedy skits on their own show. Plus Mike often tried making fun of people who still have real careers in the real entertainment industry unlike Mike Nelson who has nothing but a canceled puppet show and a cult following of Harold Lauder/Rupert Pupkin types. And at least the people in those movies hadn't been reduced to working on a puppet show yet. Mike's fans take this stupid show very seriously but not quite as seriously as they take themselves. If you thought Trekkies needed to get a life you should get a load of Nelson's fans. Part of what makes it so funny when this overrated show gets knocked down a few pegs is the way Mike's fans like to get snotty about every other TV show and movie in the world but fall to pieces when someone points out how lame their bland darling was. So much time is spent defending Mumbling Mike from smack-downs I guess the motto of the Mike Nelson fan club is something like "Mike Nelson: He wasn't quite as lame as people say he was" or maybe even "Mike Nelson: At least he wasn't Jim Varney!" Mentioning Varney serves as a reminder that the skits on this stupid show were down on the same level with Varney's movies no matter how much Nelson liked to put on airs that he was doing "cerebral" humor. Throwing in pretentious remarks here and there doesn't really make a show deep. Especially not when the original material is far worse than the movies being ridiculed. And the less said about the stupid songs the better. I defy anyone to try watching this show without fast-forwarding through the bits with either Mike and the puppets or Mary Jo Pehl and the man in the ape suit. The only reason I don't dump on Pehl as much is because I think she might have made a better star for this show than Nelson. It may seem like I'm being a bit harsh on this stupid show but after hearing how good it supposedly was I checked it out and saw that in reality it sucked. So I figured if you live by the "riff" you die by the "riff". And I like to remind people who like it that it was just a show and they should really just relax." its from imdb Well EXCUUUUSSSEE MEEE! I like the big guy who makes stupid faces & skips around with puppets singing goofy songs! Here's a bucket of ice water, Mr. Yock.
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Post by mrmeadows on Aug 19, 2010 13:01:52 GMT -5
Wow...sounds like someone has deeper issues with Mike Nelson than with the show itself. If this had been written about Joel, I would have thought maybe the author was Gallagher or something. Just sounds bitter about something not entirely MST3k related.
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Post by A deadly bee on Aug 19, 2010 13:58:12 GMT -5
Speaking of negative reviewers, how many of y'all have read this: I, Robot: The Shame of Mystery Science Theater 3000 by Chris Fujiwara. I'll give the guy credit for one thing--he did some research. He at least watched The Movie and read the ACEG. Like many ranters, though, he gets more riled up about what MST represents to him, "a viewing public paralyzed by fear, desperate for any externalization of a comforting 'distance' to protect them from recognizing their own anxieties writ large in the image unspooling from the past not dead enough to suit them." It's kind of sad, actually. I read a very interesting book by Fujiwara about Jacques Tourneur: The Cinema of Nightfall. Fujiwara's written about other famous directors and is obviously an old-movie buff. It almost seems his dislike of MST stems from his dislike of "[t]he irrelevant yocks that frequently greet [classic] films... when they show at a revival house or a college auditorium." Someone needs to stick his head in some ice water! ....and what the heck is a "Yock"? A Yob-Jock? i think it means t0 laugh
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 16:02:06 GMT -5
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say that SOMETIMES I can agree with these people. It doesn't come as a surprise to find that many of them are referencing the Sci-Fi era, as I also feel that they had become a bit too harsh on the films in those years. During the Joel era, not every film was portrayed as being absolutely terrible and unwatchable. For example, after the original Gamera film Joel thanks the Mads for not sending such a bad movie that week. Crow confesses his enjoyment of First Spaceship on Venus at the end of that episode. Both The Beatniks and The Magic Sword would have a few mentions about the film being decent in the episode. Sure, they still lambasted the films but they managed to show some reverence towards them as well. Once the show had shifted onto Sci-Fi, though, any chance that a film would be considered even somewhat decent was thrown out the door. That overwhelming negativity works when you are watching, say, Werewolf or Horror of Party Beach but it seems out of place in the few decent ones like Time Chasers or Diabolik. Of course, most of these reviewers blow it way out of proportion but, sometimes, even I get tired of the negativity in the Sci-Fi era (and most Rifftrax). Just my two cents. I like the scifi era a lot, and started watching it first before buying the Joel episodes on dvd, however i would have to somewhat agree the humor style that shifted becoming more cynical is generally not really my favorite sort. And i keep liking the Joel episodes more and more each time. Of course scifi is still very great but to pick it apart like we're doing Joel is the best. Whimsical humor is tougher to pull off than cynical humor and it's better.
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Post by continosbuckle on Aug 19, 2010 16:50:05 GMT -5
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say that SOMETIMES I can agree with these people. I wouldn't entirely disagree with someone attacking MST3k, although for me, the attacks are misplaced, and should be more directed at the lesser thoughtful fans of the show. One of my pet peeves with the fans is the fact that once a movie appeared on the show, that was pretty much it for said movie being taken seriously or even fairly considered on its own merits. The IMDb, for example, has filled up with countless 1 votes for every film they did, and each film's entry has endless comments and site reviews suggesting that the film has no artistic merit whatsoever. The reaction is quite savage, and frequently unfair. The guys themselves will acknowledge that they didn't really choose films for the show based on their badness. Rather, they chose them based on their riffability, which is something entirely different. Frequently the films were bad, true, but that was based partly on the "riffability quotient" and partly on the fact that the show didn't have a budget to get the rights to mainstream "good" Hollywood films. The simple thing is, the films weren't chosen because they were bad, and many fans misunderstand this. Of course, they can claim they've been misled by the show, which is reasonable, but the show can't very well claim that it's about a guy being sent "riffable movies". Instead, it's much simpler, easier and funnier to just call them "the worst we can find". After all, even the best movies on the show had serious shortcomings. And in fact, often the most highly regarded episodes were those that featured movies that had real heart to them, or at the very least, movies where the people making them seemed to care about the product and were trying to make something good. This can be deadly and appalling, because the attention the film gets for being part of a "good" episode opens it up to more of the unthoughtful abuse and criticism that I mentioned earlier. You can often get the impression that Misties are unfairly piling on movies that don't deserve that negative attention. And the fact that it's not thoughtful criticism only exacerbates the situation, because added to the 1 votes and the bad reviews, all negative reactions to it come to seem spiteful, foolish and ill-conceived. No less a "luminary" than Rick Sloane noted that he didn't mind the abuse heaped on Hobgoblins so much as he wished that the abusers had something original to say; something that the MST3k guys hadn't already covered. The ill-conceived criticism seemed to be directly inspired by the show itself, which casts the show in a more negative light, as if it's causing all the unfair treatment these movies receive. So I can imagine that if you liked This Island Earth, or Time Chasers, or any of the Godzilla or Gamera movies, that you might go look the films up on the IMDb and end up being somewhat less well-disposed toward the show, even going so far as to have a very angry reaction.
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Post by msmystie3000 on Aug 19, 2010 21:29:13 GMT -5
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say that SOMETIMES I can agree with these people. It doesn't come as a surprise to find that many of them are referencing the Sci-Fi era, as I also feel that they had become a bit too harsh on the films in those years. During the Joel era, not every film was portrayed as being absolutely terrible and unwatchable. For example, after the original Gamera film Joel thanks the Mads for not sending such a bad movie that week. Crow confesses his enjoyment of First Spaceship on Venus at the end of that episode. Both The Beatniks and The Magic Sword would have a few mentions about the film being decent in the episode. Sure, they still lambasted the films but they managed to show some reverence towards them as well. Once the show had shifted onto Sci-Fi, though, any chance that a film would be considered even somewhat decent was thrown out the door. That overwhelming negativity works when you are watching, say, Werewolf or Horror of Party Beach but it seems out of place in the few decent ones like Time Chasers or Diabolik. Of course, most of these reviewers blow it way out of proportion but, sometimes, even I get tired of the negativity in the Sci-Fi era (and most Rifftrax). Just my two cents. I like the scifi era a lot, and started watching it first before buying the Joel episodes on dvd, however i would have to somewhat agree the humor style that shifted becoming more cynical is generally not really my favorite sort. And i keep liking the Joel episodes more and more each time. Of course scifi is still very great but to pick it apart like we're doing Joel is the best. Whimsical humor is tougher to pull off than cynical humor and it's better. I feel the same. Both eras are hilarious but I do prefer CC more. To me it's not "Joel or Mike" but "CC or SF". Pearl & her goons are funny but they don't hold a candle to the ingenous hilarity of Dr. Forrester & TV's Frank. Bill's Crow is an absolute laugh riot but Trace's Crow certainly has him beat "by a beak". CC era just had that combo of warmth, charm & cleverness that SF lacked. Sure, I LOVED Space Mutiny & Final Sacrifice & I think Crow's "Woman as Cryptid" type bit was one of the FUNNIEST skits ever....however, overall, in general, CC had that charm, warmth, cleverness & heart....Joel's skits had a very clever, somewhat cerebral thing to it, he was like a hybrid of Groovy Stoner Dude, Steve Burns (of 'Blue's Clues') & a loving Father. Trace & Frank made the best comedy duo ever!
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