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Post by mechagamera on Oct 7, 2009 2:51:29 GMT -5
What do folks think about this idea. The fellas over at Rifftrax (with the exception of Bill) have had their share of riffing on our friendly giant turtle Gamera. Even though MST3K riffed a number of the Gamera films, there were two that they never did riff:
-Gamera vs. Viras.
Aka, Destroy All Planets. This movie was released after Gamera vs. Gyaos and before Gamera vs. Guiron. In fact, stock footage can be seen from this movie in Gamera vs. Guiron when the brain eating female aliens tap into one of the kids' heads to find out who Gamera is. The scenes featuring two boys in a miniature submarine and a flying saucer made of yellow and black stripped balls are from Viras. The monster Gamera fights is Viras, a giant spear headed squid alien. There's also aliens, two boys in upsetting shorts zipping around in a miniature submarine, and of course lots of giant monster smashing.
-Gamera vs. Jiger
Aka Gamera vs. Monster X, aka War of the Monsters. This film was released before Gamera vs. Zigra. Fortunately, the prodution values are much higher than on Zigra, with more monster scenes and even some city smashing action. Again, more kids running around (one Japanese, the other two Caucasian and apparantly British), more hijinks with the mini sub, and Expo 1970 who the title monster Jiger wants to destroy.
Also, we get Gamera's first and only female enemy, Jiger. She's sort of a wrinkly, hissing stegosaurus, minus the back plates. We know that Jiger is female because halfway through the move she actually injects Gamera with her ovipositor tail and lays an egg inside of him, ala "Alien"!!! Then the kids use the mini sub to travel inside Gamera ala "Fantastic Voyage" in order to kill the growing baby monster inside of him!! It's almost BEGGING for a good riffing. Also, the only stock footage is at the very beginning of the movie and plays during the opening credit sequance instead of being used to pad out the plot of the film. Probably the BEST out of all of the old Gamera movies.
Both of the above mentioned films are easily obtainable at any DVD seller. They've appeared in various giant monster movie collects. You've probably seen these sets, with two to four disc containing anywhere from 20 to 50 movies. Also, single disced version containing only the movies themselves are also available.
What do you guys think? Should Gamera be brought back by Rifftrax?
-Marc
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Post by lazlo25 on Oct 7, 2009 4:05:22 GMT -5
I dunno. RiffTrax hasn't done any B-movies for a while (aside from Planet of Dinosaurs and The Room). There's an iRiff of Gamera vs. Viras you can check out.
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Post by mechagamera on Oct 7, 2009 4:56:56 GMT -5
I suppose if they were to do either of the old Gamera films it would be a bit of a crap shoot.
On one hand, it would be great for die-hard fans of MST3K who know already that Mike and Kevin riffed on Gamera back when the show was still around. NONE of the Gamera episodes have been released on DVD, so fans either have dim memories of the episodes, bootleg or traded copies on tape or DVD, or have downloaded them off of some internet site. Plus both are Gamera movies that MST NEVER RIFFED!!! Two untouched, giant turtle classics! So from that angle it's bound to get attention and make money with MST fans.
Then again, for folks new to Rifftrax and unaware of MST and or Gamera, how are they to know who or what Gamera is, and if a giant fire breathing turtle that flies like a spinning UFO is worth paying $3.99 for a down load?
Also finding a copy of the original movie to play while the audio track is running is another issue. How accessible are either films through rental places like Blockbuster and Netflix? Can they be easily found online through places like Amazon.com or eBay for a reasonable price? What about other vendors that sell DVDs, Walmart, Target, Best Buy, etc? If not many carry the films, then how can customers be expected to pay for an audio rifftrax whose movie they can't find very easily?
There's the posibility of buying the rights to use the films or use them if they're in public domain and including a track on the movie for sale through the website. They've done this already with Destination Moon, Plan 9, The House on Haunted Hill, etc.
However, the old Gamera movies are a bit of a conundrum when it comes to that, which is why none of them have ever popped up in any of the MST3K volume collections. From my understanding, the international copyright they are under is not recognized by the United States, which makes copies of them public domain in the U.S. That's why folks see so many of them piled in discount DVD bins in local Wal-Marts and Best Buys for really cheap. Outside of the U.S., it's another story; they ARE NOT public domain and the rights need to be paid for.
So the question is, what to do? Do you only offer the film to fans state side and exclude possible international fans and their money? Do you track down who owns the rights and see if they'll sell them if an international release must be done? Will Rifftrax and Legend Films have enough money to buy the rights for the project? How long will they own the rights for? The longer the better in order to make sure they can break even and or make a profit from the initial cost of buying the rights and paying for the creation of the DVD.
In the end it all comes down to money and time- how much will it cost to produce and how long will it take, and how much will it bring back in and how long will that take? Will it make a profit or won't it? Is it something the majority of the fans who frequant Rifftrax will want to see and purchase?
That's great to hear that someone has done an iRiff of Gamera vs. Viras! I'd still love to see the boys riff Gamera vs. Jiger. I grew up with that movie, and it has a special place in my heart, along with MST3K. It would be wonderful to see them do another Gamera movie that has alot of solid material to riff on and create some hiliarious comedy. I mean, how outragous can you get with two kids traveling inside Gamera in a miniature submarine, engaging in a giant monster version of Fantastic Voyage?
What do other folks think? Has anyone else seen either movie?
-Marc
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Post by Mod City on Oct 7, 2009 11:44:50 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I've seen neither, but would be interested in a Rifftrax treatment of them. I don't know if it would be easier for them to try to do it as a public domain DVD-and-riffing in one package or to do it the traditional Rifftrax way - seperate mp3 file for the riffing. I'm perfectly capable of viewing it either way.
Incidentally, Mike never technically riffed any Gamera movies back in the MST3K days. He may have written many of the riffs, but he was never in the theater if I remember correctly.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Oct 7, 2009 22:33:46 GMT -5
They never did Super Monster Gamera either. That one would have been super fun.
I'd like to see them do the Heisei Gamera series. Those overrated films (especially the second one) need to be taken down a notch or two.
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Post by dph on Oct 8, 2009 16:09:18 GMT -5
They never did Super Monster Gamera either. That one would have been super fun. I'd like to see them do the Heisei Gamera series. Those overrated films (especially the second one) need to be taken down a notch or two. Super Monster Gamera wouldn't work because it's all stock footage with a little bit of footage in between. I would love to see the other two (Viras, Jiger). The iRiff of Destroy all Planets is pretty lame so I would like to see it done by the trio, or even one of the others (ICWXP, Josh Way, or some of the other great riffers).
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Oct 8, 2009 19:58:13 GMT -5
They never did Super Monster Gamera either. That one would have been super fun. I'd like to see them do the Heisei Gamera series. Those overrated films (especially the second one) need to be taken down a notch or two. Super Monster Gamera wouldn't work because it's all stock footage with a little bit of footage in between. Not neccessarily. Remember, the redo of Santa Clause Conquers the Martians worked out perfectly fine. And there's plenty of rediculous new footage to feast on. I'd rather see it riffed than Destroy All Planets, which contains about 12 solid minutes of stock footage itself. Just thinking about the space chicks in those rediculous suits flipping around at the end makes me laugh. I'd love to see what an MST experience would have been like.
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Post by dph on Oct 8, 2009 20:15:35 GMT -5
Super Monster Gamera wouldn't work because it's all stock footage with a little bit of footage in between. Not neccessarily. Remember, the redo of Santa Clause Conquers the Martians worked out perfectly fine. And there's plenty of rediculous new footage to feast on. I'd rather see it riffed than Destroy All Planets, which contains about 12 solid minutes of stock footage itself. Just thinking about the space chicks in those rediculous suits flipping around at the end makes me laugh. I'd love to see what an MST experience would have been like. Good Point, especially about the space women. As for the riffers, now that I think of it, only Kevin saw the Gamera movies as Tom Servo (I know mike saw them as a writer, but not as a riffer). I think it would work. I saw the Japanese version of Destroy all Planets first, and they actually separated all of the unimportant parts of the stock footage from that one and actually offer it as separate footage from the menus.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Oct 8, 2009 23:27:58 GMT -5
My feelings exactly. I'd love to hear Mike and Bill take on a Gamera flick. The small taste of Japanese chees with Prince of Space and Neptune Men made my mouth water.
I'd definatly take a Godzilla flick too. It's probably slightly more likely that RiffTrax would target him than Gamera, especially with Emmerich's film sporting the brand name. I have a clip of Mike, Servo, and Crow on one of those morning shows helping hype up the 98 film with clips of Godzilla movies (which they riffed a tiny bit. The movies were King Kong vs. Godzilla, Godzilla vs. Gigan, and Godzilla vs. Hedorah, if I remember correctly) and showing off a bit of Godzilla trivia with the audience. It's one of my most prized MST pieces (and a special thanks to our old, rarely visiting friend Ator for hooking me up with it).
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Post by reaperg on Oct 11, 2009 9:45:20 GMT -5
Super Monster Gamera wouldn't work because it's all stock footage with a little bit of footage in between. Not neccessarily. Remember, the redo of Santa Clause Conquers the Martians worked out perfectly fine. And there's plenty of rediculous new footage to feast on. I'd rather see it riffed than Destroy All Planets, which contains about 12 solid minutes of stock footage itself. Just thinking about the space chicks in those rediculous suits flipping around at the end makes me laugh. I'd love to see what an MST experience would have been like. Good point, but I'd still pick Jiger over Viras and Super Monster for that reason -- all-new material. Plus, it also features the actor who played Cornjob, slipping glasses and all. The upside to Viras is a cameo by Carl Craig, who played the Amerian boy in that movie and has made the convention rounds.
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Post by Ford Prefect on Oct 18, 2009 4:01:16 GMT -5
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Post by dph on Nov 25, 2009 22:07:15 GMT -5
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Post by fanboyscifitheater on May 22, 2010 0:38:06 GMT -5
It's been awhile since the last message was posted on this subject, but I just came across this website and wanted to let everyone know that we at Fanboy Sci-Fi Theater have been trying since last November to get our iRiffs of DESTROY ALL PLANETS and GAMERA VS. MONSTER X uploaded onto RiffTrax's website. For some reason, our iRiff of GAMERA SUPER MONSTER went through okay, but we could never get the other two films uploaded, which is odd because all three are the same format and size. We've been waiting six months for RiffTrax to upgrade their website, and now the iRiff section seems to be finally up-and-running again, but we are still not able to get our videos uploaded. At this point, I don't know when or if we will ever get the other two GAMERA films uploaded onto RiffTrax's websites, but we have been planning to make all three available on DVD-R through eBay, Amazon, and our own website (as soon as we get around to creating one).
However, hearing about the legal problems with the Gamera films being in public domain in the USA but not outside the USA concerns me somewhat, since eBay and Amazon sell worldwide. But then, the GAMERA DVDs released by Alpha Video, RetroMedia, and other small video companies are sold through eBay and Amazon and are thus available worldwide as well. Also, most of these low budget DVDs have no region encoding and are probably compatible with any DVD Player worldwide. While I wouldn't go out of my way to market to international customers, I don't know if I could prevent anyone outside of the USA from buying a copy. Both DESTROY ALL PLANETS and GAMERA VS. MONSTER X are available from multiple video companies, and SUPER MONSTER was on one of Elvira's double feature DVDs (They even used the original Japanese widescreen print and not the U.S. TV version I use). Also, isn't there a law that states that once a foreign film is altered in another country--such as having English subtitles or dubbing added--that it is no longer protected by copyright? With the riff commentary added, the films would be altered and therefore possibly not under copyright outside of the USA because of that.
I'm not sure, but I'm thinking that you might be able to sell a "bootleg" (or as I prefer, "non-commercial") DVD-R copy of DESTROY ALL PLANETS outside of the USA, but not the Japanese version, which is GAMERA VS. VIRAS. I believe this is why most video companies are selling the AIP TV versions of the films, with altered titles like ATTACK OF THE MONSTERS, rather than the Sandy Frank VHS versions like GAMERA VS. BARUGON. Notice that the recent release of the original GAMERA film on DVD is the Japanese version called GIANT MONSTER GAMERA instead of the original U.S. version (with added footage of American actors like the original GODZILLA) called GAMMERA THE INVINCIBLE. That indicates to me that Daiei must not own the rights to the original U.S. versions, but then I'm no legal expert. However, Carl Craig from DESTROY ALL PLANETS works for the FBI, so perhaps he can shed some light on this matter. If anyone else has any suggestions, I'm open to hearing them.
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Post by fanboyscifitheater on May 22, 2010 0:46:33 GMT -5
Also, I'd love to hear what dph thought if SUPER MONSTER and if you had a chance to check out or riff of KING KONG. We are currently working on CURSE OF BIGFOOT, FACE OF THE SCREAMING WEREWOLF and COUNT DRACULA AND HIS VAMPIRE BRIDES.
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Post by dph on May 29, 2010 9:25:20 GMT -5
I liked Super Monster Gamera, it was nice to finally get a riff of this movie. As for King Kong, I have not been able to see that one yet. I find it pretty hard to make it through that movie already being that it's so long. I've been wondering what was the delay with the other Gamera tittles. Judging by the riffs on the stock footage of Gamera vs. Jiger, I figuered you guys had finished them already. Have you contacted rifftrax about this problem? I had no problem downloading Super Monster and burning it to dvd.
As for Shout's New release of Giant Monster Gamera, that is actually the original Japanese title. The rights issue is up in the air being that Daiei no longer exists and Kadokawa now owns the rights to Gamera, however there are some complications with that.
My advice is to get your site up and running and sell it through there. It's almost impossible to find DVD-R's on ebay anymore and I think there is a very good reason for that.
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