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Post by frankenforcer on Nov 3, 2010 13:51:00 GMT -5
I'm aware of the problems inherent in this question but curiosity is a killer and this has been sticking to me ever since I sat down and watched the Crow vs. Crow, 20th anniversary panel and the history of MST3K from Shout.
What is the general opinion of Jim Mallon from the former Brains and even the Msties? It seems there's a tense attitude there at least between 2 former brains. But I always wondered how the rest of the Brains feel about their former boss. Or for that matter what the fanbase feel about him.
If this is going to cause a Mike v. Joel situation then I retract the question.
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Nov 3, 2010 13:59:14 GMT -5
There is the possibility of some Mike v. Joel level tension (though honestly, the MvJ thing isn't as bad as it used to be), but whenever talk turns to Jim people manage to contain the discussion pretty well.
Ultimately, whatever's happened in the past, Jim currently helps to keep the BBI business afloat so that new and old MSTies can keep getting the old episodes.
As for a tense attitude between him and a few former brains, I think that is the case technically, but most of what I know about that is from some half-remembered interviews that I saw from some people. I probably shouldn't comment on them because I'll get something wrong.
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Nov 4, 2010 15:26:47 GMT -5
Joel has said in a few recent interviews that one of the main reasons he left was tensions with Mallon. He didn't give specifics, but he did say it was a personality difference. I think there's also some tension because Mallon wrote the contracts so that only he, Joel, and Mike ever made any significant money from royalties. (I could be wrong about that, but I don't think so...I just can't find any links to back it up.)
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Post by Shep on Nov 6, 2010 4:02:16 GMT -5
Several members of the cast have had problems with Jim at one time or another. He's the Matty Simmons of MST3K.
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Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
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Post by Torgo on Nov 8, 2010 14:47:19 GMT -5
It's funny how admins keep replying to this thread even though someone locked it. I'm gonna unlock it for the time being, since we seem to keep bumping it back up.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 15:38:03 GMT -5
I neverknew anything about Joel/Mike tension.
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Post by Mr. Atari on Nov 8, 2010 16:03:25 GMT -5
There have been odd comments in interviews throughout the years. I'm sure the links and documentation are around here somewhere.
To sum up: Joel came clean and admitted his MST departure was pretty much because of differences with Jim.
Mike mentioned once that he was put off that when BBI was auctioning off props, that Jim included some of Mike's personal property.
And some confirmation from other Brains leads me to understand that only Jim and Joel make royalty money from the show, a contract arrangement that has led to some acrimony.
I've always chalked it up to the difficult marriage between artistry and business. Without Jim, there never would have been MST. But at least part of the revolving door of participation over 10 seasons had to do with tension with Jim.
Then again, it could be that the whole thing is just hearsay and conjecture ("Those are kinds of evidence..."). Whatever rifts there are between the Brains and Jim (or between CT and Rifftrax) they all played nice at the reunion. As a fan, I'm indebted to all of the Brains. To put it another way-- even if I have Paul & George's side of the whole Yoko Ono thing, I'm sure glad I can listen to The White Album.
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Nov 9, 2010 8:47:10 GMT -5
There have been odd comments in interviews throughout the years. I'm sure the links and documentation are around here somewhere. To sum up: Joel came clean and admitted his MST departure was pretty much because of differences with Jim. Mike mentioned once that he was put off that when BBI was auctioning off props, that Jim included some of Mike's personal property. And some confirmation from other Brains leads me to understand that only Jim and Joel make royalty money from the show, a contract arrangement that has led to some acrimony. I've always chalked it up to the difficult marriage between artistry and business. Without Jim, there never would have been MST. But at least part of the revolving door of participation over 10 seasons had to do with tension with Jim. Then again, it could be that the whole thing is just hearsay and conjecture ("Those are kinds of evidence..."). Whatever rifts there are between the Brains and Jim (or between CT and Rifftrax) they all played nice at the reunion. As a fan, I'm indebted to all of the Brains. To put it another way-- even if I have Paul & George's side of the whole Yoko Ono thing, I'm sure glad I can listen to The White Album. Agreed. I think in one of the same interviews where Joel said he left because of Mallon, he did say that the show never would have gotten as big as it did without him. I have a feeling that we, as fans, like to think of huge on-going feuds, when, in reality, it's probably more just business relationships that went in different directions, at least now once it's cooled down. I also have a feeling that a lot of the seeming acrimony that some fans have for Mallon now has to do with the new website...which doesn't quite live up to what Rifftrax or CT are doing. A lot of us (i.e., me) see it as trying to profit off of the MST brand without really offering new content, or at least really substantial content. (And I don't know why the thread was locked. I'm fine keeping it open.)
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Post by brandonakaxerxes on Nov 9, 2010 16:08:05 GMT -5
I remember there was some talk that Jim Mallon objected to Rhino producing the "Film Crew" DVDs. Fans seemed to think it was because he though Mike, kevin, and Bill were "plagiarizing" MST3K. I thought Mallon had defended himself once saying that he didn't want Rhino producing Film Crew, because if they were spending money on b-movies for that series, they wouldn't be using their money on securing rights to b-movies for MST3K episodes. That's why Film Crew moved to Shout Factory (of course, MST3K soon followed).
When Mike tells the story of Jim tagging his personal items for EBAY, I can't help but wonder if that's just Mike in Chuck Jones mode, exaggerating a story just to make a person laugh. You'd think Mike would have figured that Jim tagged it unintentionally, thinking it WAS an MST3K prop when it wasn't. If Jim did tag people's personal items on EBay deliberately.... then, I don't know what was behind that.
For the record, I spoke with someone who used to have ties with Comedy Central, and said that CC execs, back in 1994 offered to produce MST3K: The Movie, and offered them the same creative freedom they have with the series, but Jim wanted a crap load of money (it's unclear if Jim wanted the money for himself, or for the whole cast), which CC was unwilling to give out.
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Post by fathermushroom on Nov 9, 2010 21:42:48 GMT -5
And then there's the recent interview with MJP where she says she resents JM (her words) for repackaging MST3K over and over.... whatever that means precisely.
So it's not dead yet I suppose.
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Post by Skyroniter on Nov 9, 2010 22:58:25 GMT -5
And then there's the recent interview with MJP where she says she resents JM (her words) for repackaging MST3K over and over.... whatever that means precisely... Other than the brief foray in that animated series I can't see how he has"repackaged" the show in any way.
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Post by GProopdog on Nov 10, 2010 8:19:28 GMT -5
And then there's the recent interview with MJP where she says she resents JM (her words) for repackaging MST3K over and over.... whatever that means precisely... Other than the brief foray in that animated series I can't see how he has"repackaged" the show in any way. The only other thing MJP could be talking about is the cast changes to the show. Sounds a bit strange to be resentful about though...
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Nov 10, 2010 8:54:12 GMT -5
I think I get what she means in context: [/i] No. I’m rather detached from their release because it doesn’t effect me at all — I can’t expect a check from them, I’m bitter toward [executive producer] Jim Mallon for repackaging and repackaging [these episodes]. I guess for the record, to make a less bitter interview, the packaging and the compilations are pretty cool and pretty fun, and when we’re doing signings at Cinematic Titanic, people come through the line with these new packages, and that’s usually my first introduction to them, so I’m always pretty intrigued at that point. I’m usually not on the radar for these releases because of Jim Mallon’s deal with Shout! Factory and… well, I don’t want to talk about filthy lucre. So if people want to support your work, they should be coming out to see Cinematic Titanic, then.[/i] Yes.[/quote] I think she's specifically referring to Rhino and Shout! (technically two repackagings?). And since she doesn't make any money when someone one else still makes money from something she's helped write, I can understand the resentment. That's especially true when you're still trying to make a living doing something similar and you don't want your current project to compete with earlier work that you don't get paid for any more. But I don't think it's huge resentfulness. After all, CT wouldn't be anything without a lasting and thriving MST3K fan base, and the re-releases go a long way to keeping us all going. And none of the CT/Rifftrax folk ever have a problem still signing/talking about/appreciating fans who want to talk MST3K. They all know that they're all still part of the same community.
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Post by msmystie3000 on Nov 10, 2010 9:11:48 GMT -5
I had a nickname for Jim "Mr. How To Lose Friends & Alienate People"....though I hope things work out. Jim does have a way of turning off folks, I dunno....
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Post by frankenforcer on Nov 12, 2010 7:58:23 GMT -5
Wow, never heard half of these things. I read Joels words about hsi departure. I was very hesitant to post this because I didn't want to start a war of words and I knew this would be a sensitive subject. The reason I got curious came from a throw away comment Bill mad in reference to Jim on the Crow vs. Crow Dragon panel that was an extra on one of the SHout Factories DVD's.
I personally have no ill feelings toward Jim as I understand how hard it is when mixing personal relationships with business and I am glad Jim is carrying the MST3K torch as it's a show that deserves to be remembered. No matter what his reasons are, it's Jim carrying on with MST that has let me have 19 volumes of dvds with my childhood show and why I proudly have Crow, Tom, and Gypsy standing on my DVD rack.
If this was locked at one time I fully understand. I'm glad to see that MSTies can discuss something this sensitive calmly. Who says we can't learn fromt he past. ;D
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