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Post by inlovewithcrow on Aug 3, 2011 22:36:05 GMT -5
of all time. I can't find the original article, but I can find the list on-line. I'll just post it first and give my thoughts in a bit.
1. American Beauty (1999)
2. Chicago (2002)
3, Clerks (1994)
4. Fantasia (1940)
5. Field of Dreams (1989)
6. Chariots of Fire (1981)
7. Good Will Hunting (1997)
8. Forrest Gump (1994)
9. Jules and Jim (1962)
10. A Beautiful Mind (2001)
11. Monster's Ball (2001)
12. Moonstruck (1987)
13. Mystic River (2003)
14. Nashville (1975)
15. The Wizard of Oz (1939)
16. An American in Paris (1951)
17. Easy Rider (1969)
18. The Red Shoes (1948)
19. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
20. Gone With the Wind (1939)
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Post by inlovewithcrow on Aug 3, 2011 23:03:07 GMT -5
1. American Beauty (1999). I read the shooting script for this before seeing the movie and despite my pro-gay stance, I thought, "what is this, a recruitment film for being a gay male?" and felt irked about how blatant that message was and how misogynistic it seemed, too. That was toned down in the movie as released but it predisposed me to be critical, and I was.
2. Chicago (2002). I just posted about how awful this was recently. It's not just not-great, it's awful.
3. Clerks (1994). It's kinda cute, but it isn't a great movie. It's like Cheech and Chong movies were in my day.
4. Fantasia (1940). Unless I'm on LSD, which I don't do any more, pretty boring. and it predates LSD.
5. Field of Dreams (1989) Agree totally. Another stupid movie with bad acting.
6. Chariots of Fire (1981) Oh, it was fine. Maybe not award-worthy, but it was fine.
7. Good Will Hunting (1997) Probably my favorite movie of this list. I'm a sucker for this kind of tale. (Ordinary People is another shrink-has-breakthrough-with-kid movie I liked)
8. Forrest Gump (1994) Horrible, horrible movie.
9. Jules and Jim (1962) I honestly don't remember it well--went through my Trufautt phase decades ago and only remember Day for Night.
10. A Beautiful Mind (2001) a pretty long ad for big pharma and how great being normal is supposed to be.
11. Monster's Ball (2001) didn't last through this one, either
12. Moonstruck (1987) A dull movie with dull performances by two bad, overrated actors.
13. Mystic River (2003). This was fine (if bleak) with very good acting.
14. Nashville (1975). Altman, in general, is overrated, imo.
15. The Wizard of Oz (1939). Don't know how you can hate this--it's a good kids' movie and Garland was at the height of her vocal powers.
16. An American in Paris (1951). I liked this fine, but the ballet sequence went on a little too long.
17. Easy Rider (1969). No appeal for me. I think it's a guy film.
18. The Red Shoes (1948). Just watched some of this tonight--pretty awful.
19. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968). I liked this for a number of reasons, including a marvelous score, but was always bugged in this (and Star Wars and many other s-f movies) by the sexism. Welcome to the Marvelous Future! where women get to be phone operators and housewives. Bite me.
20. Gone With the Wind (1939) Never a big fan. In fact, I don't think I've seen it all at one sitting because I tend to get up and wander away.
It strikes me that a lot of these had great scores and may have gone further than they would have otherwise because of the great scores. hmm.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Aug 3, 2011 23:21:15 GMT -5
The list is almost complete shite. Red Shoes is a work of genius, American Beauty one of my favorites. I enjoyed Chicago. As a magazine, Premiere makes good toilet paper.  |
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Post by Ratso on Aug 3, 2011 23:29:47 GMT -5
I stopped reading when I saw Wizard Of OZ on the list.
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Torgo
Moderator Emeritus 
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
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Post by Torgo on Aug 3, 2011 23:49:07 GMT -5
Congratulations Premiere. You proved you can pick 20 random popular movies and can put them in a list. I'm so proud of you.
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Post by TheNewMads on Aug 4, 2011 8:42:26 GMT -5
6. Chariots of Fire (1981) 7. Good Will Hunting (1997) 8. Forrest Gump (1994) 10. A Beautiful Mind (2001) 12. Moonstruck (1987) 14. Nashville (1975) i'm 50-50 on this list but these movies do, in fact, kinda suck. |
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Post by CBG on Aug 4, 2011 10:09:07 GMT -5
They didn't say they were bad, just overrated.
What about Casablanca or Citizen Kane?
I'll probably get stoned for that.
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Post by TheNewMads on Aug 4, 2011 10:27:42 GMT -5
They didn't say they were bad, just overrated. What about Casablanca or Citizen Kane? I'll probably get stoned for that. i think you'll probably get stoned for hating on citizen kane, but i've seen it pretty competently argued that "casablanca" is actually a hot mess, it's a pastiche of ripoffs of other movies and cliches and the characters were all so cardboard two-dimensional. (big bad nazis, conniving frenchmen, the antihero american loner, YAWN.) also, it's pretty excessively sentimental. i wish i could remember where i'd read that article because i remember being gobsmacked by it because it literally had just never occurred to think of "casablanca" as anything other than the finest movie on the planet but this guy made such a good case that it was actually a huge turdblossom that he started to convince me. so take that, aram fingal! |
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Post by TheNewMads on Aug 4, 2011 13:20:38 GMT -5
a lot of the movies on that list i dislike not necessarily because they're bad but because i find their politics irksome. the sexism in 2001 is annoying, for instance -- although you COULD make an argument that the sexism isn't kubrick's but that it was part of a critique he's plainly leveling against the kind of hyper-rational, military-industrial culture 2001 presents us. i mean the movie is very understated and it doesn't guide you much or underscore its own points, but heywood floyd is actually an incredibly powerful and sinister embodiment of patriarchy, he's pretty much dr. friggin' evil but kubrick presents him so matter-of-factly you hardly notice. (think about it: they create a cover story about an epidemic on the moon base even though that's totally going to freak out the families of the people stuck there! also, everyone talks about how HAL9000 "went nuts" etc. but in the movie *I* saw he seemed to actually be following orders, that the astronauts were on the Discovery 2 for PR purposes but the powers-that-be (whom Floyd stood in for) were perfectly fine with turning the Discovery 2 into an unmanned probe if the crew started to give them trouble. so what i'm trying to say in my incredibly long-winded way is the sexism in 2001 may have been part of what kubrick was critiquing rather than a transparent extension of *his* ideology. "beautiful mind" i found irksome because john nash is actually a pretty tweaky dude. you should see the bits about john nash in the adam curtis documentary "the trap," it's a real eye-opener. the guy was a paranoid schizophrenic and had a very dim view of human nature, he assumed everyone acted solely out of self-interest and his economic theory was basically sprung out of that. by creating such a rosy picture of him "beautiful mind" pretty much implicitly endorsed his ideology, though i doubt that's what ron howard intended. he's a talented guy but nowhere near as precise a thinker as kubrick. his movies that i've seen are feel-good movies but aren't terribly sophisticated or deep. "beautiful mind" was the same way, though it had intellectual pretensions, it wasn't a terribly smart movie itself. i saw "forrest gump" as basically an endorsement of anti-intellectualism. it was also nationalistic in a manipulative and one-dimensional way. i can't remember much about it, i only saw it once when it came out, but i remember being really underwhelmed by it. whatever emotional reaction it elicited from everyone else was totally lost on me, i guess. wow, i'm just typing and typing and typing today. sorry...  |
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Post by The Mad Plumber on Aug 4, 2011 16:48:24 GMT -5
What? Is it just a list? Did the article have any justifications for these choices? None of these movies are my favorites, so I'm not necessarily offended. In fact, titles like Forrest Gump and A Beautiful Mind are films I could do without seeing again. I guess that seems to get missed is that the title of the article is "overrated", which I suppose means that the films are boosted up higher than they deserve without really being horrendous. But, really, The Wizard of Oz? Even I will admit that that is a timeless classic fantasy.
I'm reminded of a thread I brought up earlier where I questioned the "classic" status of several films. I noted my dislike for films such as Giant and Breakfast at Tiffany's. MJ himself brought up that critics seem to have changed their minds about Tom Jones.
I haven't seen 2001 yet and I'm trying to finish it. It's hard when family members interrupt me. Maybe I'll finish it tonight. So far, it's kind of so-so with me. There really seems to be a lot of padding, as if this film is Stanley Kubrick's love letter to classical music.
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Post by TheNewMads on Aug 4, 2011 17:14:42 GMT -5
what's amazing about 2001 is that is doesn't have a lot of padding: it's ALL padding. but then you realize that a story is actually being told, all in the subtext. i had a bit of a moment with fantasia, because i love that damn movie. but i think it's funny how people get bent out of shape when other people don't like their pet movies. i actually think 2001 is the most magnificent movie ever made, but when it came out pauline kael wrote a brilliant article talking about what an utter piece of crap she thought it was. in fact pauline kael is probably my favorite critic who i almost always disagree with her, but i always used to love to read her stuff. i think she also hated easy rider, which is another one of my lifelong favorites. i'd be interested to know what she thought of nashville.
i'd add "seabiscuit" to premiere's list. i couldn't stand that movie, so pandering.
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Post by Shep on Aug 6, 2011 2:15:15 GMT -5
I have to admit I agree with a lot of those choices (except 2001 and Easy Rider)
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Post by Ratso on Aug 6, 2011 11:31:23 GMT -5
2001 isn't overrated... if you ask the average person on the street what they think about that film they'll say it was either boring or made no sense.
Same goes for Fantasia.
These movies aren't as loved as you would think.
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Post by The Mad Plumber on Aug 6, 2011 23:38:55 GMT -5
2001 isn't overrated... if you ask the average person on the street what they think about that film they'll say it was either boring or made no sense. I presume that when an article references a film as being overrated, I think they tend to be pointing to esteemed critical opinion as opposed to general consensus. I've finally finished 2001. It's an okay film, but certainly not a favorite. I might almost say that it's a 45-minute film stretched out to 180 minutes. Nevertheless, I have to recognize it as being the precursor to so many films, include Star Wars and Alien. |
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Post by inlovewithcrow on Aug 7, 2011 18:10:53 GMT -5
I did, btw, hunt and hunt for the original text of this on line but couldn't find it. I'd like to hear the author's original arguments. He may well have thought a lot of these films were okay but overhyped. Who knows. If anyone ever does find a link, add it!
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