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Post by TobyMobias on Oct 24, 2011 4:52:43 GMT -5
@madplummer: I'd like to add to that with this.
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Post by inlovewithcrow on Oct 24, 2011 14:13:37 GMT -5
I do get tired of the gay jokes, and I wonder if Nelson (and it is Nelson in part, for you can hear it on Nelson-only rifftrax, like Road House) is a closeted gay, there's so much of it. You know what they say about homophobia. I get tired of the "that's so gay" phrase, particularly in anyone over the age of 12, who should know better. But I do have to admit, that rooftop in Independence Day, that was gay, in the literal sense. They were dead-on correct there. I also get weary of the fat jokes. And I get weary of the repeated jokes. But yes, I'm offended. I always go out and have gay sex right after, though, and I feel better for having done so.
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Post by TheNewMads on Oct 24, 2011 17:02:51 GMT -5
i'm not a closeted gay, but i used to hope trace beaulieu was a closeted gay, for some reason.
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Post by mummifiedstalin on Oct 24, 2011 20:03:59 GMT -5
I do get tired of the gay jokes, and I wonder if Nelson (and it is Nelson in part, for you can hear it on Nelson-only rifftrax, like Road House) is a closeted gay, there's so much of it. You know what they say about homophobia. I get tired of the "that's so gay" phrase, particularly in anyone over the age of 12, who should know better. But I do have to admit, that rooftop in Independence Day, that was gay, in the literal sense. They were dead-on correct there. I also get weary of the fat jokes. And I get weary of the repeated jokes. But yes, I'm offended. I always go out and have gay sex right after, though, and I feel better for having done so. I am offended by the fact that you take offense.
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Post by SOL Stowaway on Oct 24, 2011 20:32:26 GMT -5
SOL Stoaway, I'm glad you're talking about this, though. I may disagree, but I'm not going to say that you're being stupid or oversensitive. It's not just a "PC" issue because language really can perpetuate negativity. Thanks. I do get tired of the gay jokes, and I wonder if Nelson (and it is Nelson in part, for you can hear it on Nelson-only rifftrax, like Road House) is a closeted gay, there's so much of it. You know what they say about homophobia. I've also read that there's some mild homophobia in Death Rat: In addition, there are quite a lot of mildly homophobic jokes about gayness, or men behaving gaily, or men feeling threatened by other men acting gay (sample joke: Ponty is terrified when a beefy male acquaintance asks him if he wants to "go out" sometime – it turns out that he's inviting him to "go out" hunting. Ha, ha). I want to believe that this is tongue-in-cheek and entirely ironic, but the jokes pop up with irritating and unfunny frequency. Again, it's funnier when the humor is aimed at homely 1960s B-actors with too-tight hot pants and shellacked hair; here, it almost seems like Nelson has some sort of agenda. Howard Stern has made fun of the gay lifestyle for years, while also voicing his support for gay rights. Dennis Miller, despite his post-9/11 turn to the right, also has no problem with homosexuals. I see nothing wrong with non-PC humor, as long as such jokes are told in a purely humorous, non-hateful way. I realize such jokes can be left open to interpretation. but sometimes one has to grow a thick skin and be able to laugh along. Really, though. Homotania? You're going to disown Rifftrax over *that*? *record scratch* Just to clarify something: there's no such thing as The Gay Lifestyle. That's just what the (social) conservatives would like you to believe. To say that you (presuming you're hetero), Osama Bin Ladin, Oprah Winfrey, Fred Phelps & Ron Jeremy have all lived the same lifestyle would be ludicrous, wouldn't it? Gay isn't a lifestyle - it's part of who you are. We lead a multitude of lifestyles just like everyone else. I don't mean to be defensive but that's a pet peeve of mine. That's easier said than done. I very much wish I knew how do grow a thicker skin on this issue. I've obviously been exposed to homophobia since I was a kid, yet all these years later, it still cuts like a knife whenever I hear a gay slur. And I'm sure I'm not alone there. I'm generally fine with non-PC jokes (I'm a fan of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, for example) but entertainers should know better than to go around making grade school-level gay jokes in a world where gays are being bullied, vilified and executed for who they are. It's like rubbing salt into an open wound. I could probably overlook it if it were an isolated incident. Homotania was just the last straw. I refuse to pay to be insulted.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 25, 2011 2:38:00 GMT -5
Eh, I think if you look hard enough you can find the boogyman anywhere... even in places he aint.
But if your seeing it -even if I'm not- and are upset by it. Probably best to stay away from the product. Your choice.
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Post by icecreambunny on Oct 25, 2011 3:10:57 GMT -5
lol, exactly, that's why I read 6 million reviews for every rifftrax and I don't download the depressing ones. Except X-Men, but that's before I learnt my lesson.
I wish there was a special review place for it though.
Edit: also, if you're implying you can stay away so there's no need to talk about it, that's untrue and unfair. It's healthy to talk about it, even though, as I said, this is not the most productive way. Also, if more people talked about it, it would be easier to weed the bad ones out.
This thread has already been super helpful.
Oh and finally, for homophobia, not only is THAT bogeyman basically everywhere, people will helpfully shove it in your face so you don't NEED to look for it. Like in offensive rifftrax jokes.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 25, 2011 3:40:02 GMT -5
^Not sure what your trying to say in that post? Were you addressing me with your edit. If so, go back and re-read what I said. Specifically the word "product". Meaning "Rifftrax". If a product continually offends or distresses, then don't buy it. If every time I eat Domino's pizza I throw up... perhaps I should not be eating it. I have zero problems with discussing it, as long as it doesn't go on ad naseum. (He he, bad pun). Clear?
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Post by TheNewMads on Oct 25, 2011 8:41:01 GMT -5
[I've also read that there's some mild homophobia in Death Rat: In addition, there are quite a lot of mildly homophobic jokes about gayness, or men behaving gaily, or men feeling threatened by other men acting gay (sample joke: Ponty is terrified when a beefy male acquaintance asks him if he wants to "go out" sometime – it turns out that he's inviting him to "go out" hunting. Ha, ha). I want to believe that this is tongue-in-cheek and entirely ironic, but the jokes pop up with irritating and unfunny frequency. Again, it's funnier when the humor is aimed at homely 1960s B-actors with too-tight hot pants and shellacked hair; here, it almost seems like Nelson has some sort of agenda. i'm a huge fan of "death rat," i read it more than once and i read it aloud to someone very dear to me when she was sick. i'm actually a bit sentimental about it. i think i remember this moment and it could be at least partly explained in that a big part of the novel's mission is to paint ponty as this sort-of fish out of water, milquetoast walter-mitty type who's constantly confronted with other men who are a lot more comfortable in their skin. they also tend to be pretty internally circumscribed. jack ryback is a rugged, good-looking guy but pretty vacant and simple-minded, king leo is this prince/george clinton hybrid and as such a bit of a self-indulgent narcissist in the traditional rock-star way. anyway, you DO also get the impression that king leo is bisexual and he comes on to ponty in ways that also make him uncomfortable, is a bit flirtatious etc. but another way to read that and the "wanna go out" moment is that Ryback and Leo are comfortable in their sexuality (Ryback, an unconsidered hetero, doesn't even think of the double meaning, and Leo, who's bi, isn't attracted to Ponty and is just messing around) and Ponty, milquetoast that he is, is the homophobic one. not though out of malice but out of anxiety, and the book is aware of the homophobia as part of the story. ponty's also uncomfortable in sex/romance generally, he's got a love interest but it takes him forever to realize it, etc. sorry for the book review. my point is, i've known a true bigot or two in my life and their key feature isn't even their bigotry; it's their two-dimensionality. i don't get that impression from nelson at all, and you learn quite a bit about him by reading his books, particularly DR and also Mind Over Matters. i think he's preoccupied with masculinity as a concept. and you can imagine why, a big beefy guy who also grew up as a theater geek, a comedian but also a devout protestant? that's a fascinating mish-mash of old-school masculinity and metrosexual. i think he just struggles with that and sometimes does it in clumsy ways. he's a far cry from some stars-and-bars-flying xenophobe.
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Post by TheNewMads on Oct 25, 2011 14:09:54 GMT -5
this just in!
that's from the facebook update on the new rifftrax short "Jobs in Cosmetology." Maybe some sensitivity training?
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imapotato
Nanite
You should really just relax...for Mystery Science Theater 3000
Posts: 40
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Post by imapotato on Oct 27, 2011 20:24:09 GMT -5
This thread shows why I can never really treat liberals seriously.
Because a person is homophobic he MUST be Conservative and Republican.
Mass ignorant assumptions such as we are racist,bigoted and other things?
You paint a whole group of tea party people by a broadbrush because the liberal propoganda machine that is the mass media goes to the ones with misspelled signs (I IMPLORE you to look at most of the Occupy signs) and who they think will be ignorant...that encompasses all Conservatives?
All in a thread about not making assumptions
Liberal=hypocrite
and if you think Rifftrax or Mike are homophobic because they happened to hit a nerve ( I love Ron Paul, and they rip him constantly) then I suggest you get the stick out of your...oh wait that might be considered bigotry too
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Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
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Post by Torgo on Oct 27, 2011 20:51:24 GMT -5
Woah! Party rage out of nowhere!
For the record, I grew up in a conservative household but classify myself as independent, so I'm definitely not speak from hard left, but I will note that your post is about liberals making negative generalizations by using negative generalizations against them. Let's try and keep that to a minimum, shall we?
It was a nice pleasant, unheated debate until that. I'd rather it not turn into "our side is right, everyone else is wrong" nonsense.
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Post by TheNewMads on Oct 27, 2011 22:00:12 GMT -5
This thread shows why I can never really treat liberals seriously. Because a person is homophobic he MUST be Conservative and Republican. Mass ignorant assumptions such as we are racist,bigoted and other things? You paint a whole group of tea party people by a broadbrush because the liberal propoganda machine that is the mass media goes to the ones with misspelled signs (I IMPLORE you to look at most of the Occupy signs) and who they think will be ignorant...that encompasses all Conservatives? All in a thread about not making assumptions Liberal=hypocrite and if you think Rifftrax or Mike are homophobic because they happened to hit a nerve ( I love Ron Paul, and they rip him constantly) then I suggest you get the stick out of your...oh wait that might be considered bigotry too the current front-running republican candidate for president is herman cain, a black man. have you noticed all the vicious race-based attacks against him from the left, where they question his citizenship, accuse him of being from Kenya, and make offensive caricatures portraying him as a witch doctor with a bone through his nose? yeah, me neither. the tea party's history on race is crystal clear. their protestations to the contrary really don't matter. their actions speak louder.
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Post by afriendlychicken on Oct 27, 2011 22:20:23 GMT -5
Wow, this has turned. I'm now going to post something I left for my friends on Facebook who were going at each other the other week. No offense is meant to anyone here on the board. It was me getting vehemently angry with my 'idiot' FB friends. "Why I hate politics reason number 1,000,000,000: Anyone who doesn't agree with you and is on the other side; because in politics there are always ONLY two sides; must be stupid, morons, hateful and disgusting while your Pinocchio clean side are angelic, saviors, the only choice for the REAL smart people in this country...I just think all of you are idiots and can and will never speak for me. So stop kidding yourselves and start liking each other because your two sides are much, much more alike than you think they are. From a critical thinker, skeptic and non-conformist." As for staying on topic, I worked with a bunch of guys on a job that were so homophobic that when a gay guy was hired, they wouldn't even talk to him. I did and was ostracized for it and asked how I could even stand talking to that f**. Well, I judge people on character, period. He was a nice guy, that's all that mattered to me. As for the guys I worked with? They were all left-wing democrats and I, like Torgo; buffy, you're Torgo right? I'm so confused ; grew up in a conservative family. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when it comes to homophobia, politics has almost nothing to do with it. It's all subjective to the person involved. And sol stowaway, I support you all the way my friend.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 27, 2011 23:16:56 GMT -5
But Mike's politics were brought into this debate from the very first. I used to love Mike. But ever since I found out that he's a conservative there's always been that question in my mind. My problem with all of this is, that if I dig deep enough I can present evidence that suggests that the MST3K gang and their post MST projects are xenophobic, sexist, racists... in addition to showing hatred for the bald and the fat. While a person might not like these jokes, you better be careful about calling someone homophobic or racists or whatever. Take women - I've heard comments that make mention of their promiscuity, in Abraxas the word "Rape" is tossed around casually. In one of the Terminators, Claire Danes looks are constantly picked on. There was a short where a little heavy set girl with a pug nose is compared to a pig. Are the folks at Rifftrax Misogynists? Or is it just that sometimes humor is in bad taste? Comedians make mean comments sometimes. And if you hate the gay jokes... do you still laugh at jokes about weight, the Japanese having one inch penises (from MST), jokes that knock Christianity as superstition (CT)? When I read, as a defense, that the person who is upset over a particular joke, but has no problem with other non PC shows, or other type of jokes that cross the line. I have to wonder, why is it okay to make fun of everyone and everything else? "You can quip about anything, except Jesus." Or, "I'll laugh at jokes about Claire Danes nose, but by God don't you dare make a silly joke about someones sexuality or I'll call you a homophobe?" Reeks of a double standard to me.
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