|
Post by The Mad Plumber on Oct 27, 2011 23:19:42 GMT -5
I'd like to point out a couple things.
This thread has gotten highly political. It's turned from what seemed to be a somewhat innocent question as to whether Mike Nelson was homophobic into a left-right quarrel. "Observer's Brain" is the area for political debate and, quite frankly, I doubt that left-right quarrels are welcome there either.
Also, the main basis of this accusation seems to be some interview that Mike said he was a Conservative or a Republican. I know that lingering somewhere in the depths of "Observer's Brain" is a thread about Mike's supposed political affiliations or beliefs in which everybody has chimed in on the subject.
Furthermore, this also seems to be turning into a mutated variation of a Mike vs. Joel debate.
|
|
|
Post by TheNewMads on Oct 27, 2011 23:32:04 GMT -5
i'm pro-J. Elvis! If you like Kevin Murphy's tom, you suck forever!
anyway!
i play in bands quite a bit and for whatever random reason the last two drummers i've played with have been really annoying homophobes. the guy i'm playing with now is an unknown quantity, seems pretty apathetic politically, the guy in the last band was a union democrat. (which isn't exactly a liberal by any stretch, but not really a conservative, either.) they both did similar things: anytime you did something they read as effeminate they'd call you gay or f*g, and anytime you said anything even remotely phallic -- if something was "hard" or "rigid" or "long" or "thrusting" etc. -- it was the same routine. to me it seemed like these guys were actually enforcing a code of conduct THEY had learned, this kinda macho code -- both of these guys had huge vans and/or SUVs, sorta had manly-man jobs (one's an AC repairman, the other a defense department contractor) and somewhat overbearing wives who seemed to be really invested themselves in how manly their husbands were, etc. honestly, to me that lifestyle seems confining and i think men who feel obligated to live it chafe at it, and they express their claustrophobia by directing homophobic slurs at people who don't invest in that same value system. that phenomenon isn't going to have much to do with political boundaries, it has more to do with someone's chosen lifestyle and that person's comfort with it. kinda what i was trying to get at with my discourse on mike. i think a lot of his apparent homophobia is actually his personal struggle with his own image of masculinity, how well he fits that image, how valid he feels that image is, etc. that's what i think the drummers were dealing with. doesn't make it any less irritating, but i kinda get it.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 27, 2011 23:48:22 GMT -5
That's making a broad assumption about Mike. Plus, he's not the only one writing these jokes. I feel we are treading a dangerous ground. Waiving around in the dark, hoping to hit something..."It must be his politics, or he must be struggling with his image of masculinity... or he's defective, or he ate paint chips as a child or... (pick your poison)"
Or he could just be a guy making a joke, without an agenda, without some inner psychological demon he's struggling with, without malice.
|
|
|
Post by mummifiedstalin on Oct 27, 2011 23:53:46 GMT -5
Take it to Observer's Brain. And the next person who makes broad generalizations about liberals or conservatives, Republicans or Democrats gets banned. Have a nice day.
|
|
|
Post by TheNewMads on Oct 28, 2011 0:18:02 GMT -5
noted, darth. i will watch my Ps and Qs. "It must be his politics, or he must be struggling with his image of masculinity... or he's defective, or he ate paint chips as a child or... (pick your poison)" i think it's just this one, and i don't believe there's any shame in it. i get that he's not the only one writing the jokes but i also get the impression that this is a preoccupation of his from his books and his other writings. he really doesn't try to hide it that much.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 28, 2011 0:25:45 GMT -5
But the only way we'll know is if Mike himself speaks about it. Otherwise we are simply spinning our wheels.
|
|
Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
|
Post by Torgo on Oct 28, 2011 0:35:19 GMT -5
I'll just walk up to him and ask him "why do you hate homosexuals, you biggot?"
If everybody sends me a hundred dollars, I'll totally do it.
|
|
|
Post by afriendlychicken on Oct 28, 2011 0:47:48 GMT -5
I'll just walk up to him and ask him "why do you hate homosexuals, you biggot?" If everybody sends me a hundred dollars, I'll totally do it. Thank you! You've just given me the best laugh I've had all day. So? Where do I send the check?
|
|
|
Post by mummifiedstalin on Oct 28, 2011 0:49:29 GMT -5
But the only way we'll know is if Mike himself speaks about it. Otherwise we are simply spinning our wheels. I think it's fair to voice concerns. It's fair to talk about it. And it's fair for people to put together an argument. You're right that it doesn't make it conclusive, though. But I don't know that it's so much spinning wheels as just hammering out different reactions. The trick is not to end up totally damning the guy OR just outright dismissing the way people react. It's clear that enough people have noticed *something* that it's an issue that resonates with some people. Like I said, I don't find those jokes particularly offensive -- and I'm one who would be a likely candidate to get upset at that kind of thing. But enough people have voiced similar concerns that I think it'd be a fair question to ask him sometime if ever given the chance. Not in a challenging way, either, but in the sense of: how much does your personal politics affect the riffing? Do you worry if some of your jokes are taken to be straightforwardly demeaning rather than ironic? Are those kind of jokes meant to just be low-brow, or satirical, or really just laughing at things that seem "gay"? Conversation-worthy, in other words.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 28, 2011 1:03:03 GMT -5
I agree with you.
I'm not saying we shouldn't voice concerns. I'm simply uncomfortable with branding someone with a label (like a band of angry villagers with torches). I wouldn't like it if someone suggested that I was a racists or homophobic etc, and then tried to explain why with flimsy pop psychology. Would you?
I do like the way you phrased that question and would be interested in reading a response to it.
|
|
|
Post by mummifiedstalin on Oct 28, 2011 1:11:45 GMT -5
Then they should all line up and do a Rocketts kick line -- in the official uniform, of course.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 28, 2011 1:16:22 GMT -5
of course. (I tell ya, I'm feeling like Henry Fonda in a room full of Lee J Cobbs. Or a Preacher standing before a yard full of Robert Eastons... burn the witch?)
|
|
|
Post by afriendlychicken on Oct 28, 2011 1:42:33 GMT -5
of course. (I tell ya, I'm feeling like Henry Fonda in a room full of Lee J Cobbs. Or a Preacher standing before a yard full of Robert Eastons... burn the witch?) You had to know that was coming... If you feel like Henry Fonda, then I must be the John Fielder character. I wear glasses and am very timid, and only want the truth.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Jack on Oct 28, 2011 2:18:20 GMT -5
Ha ha, perfect! - Actually I'd like to be Henry Fonda, I wish I was that wise and caring. Just as long as we don't have this guy on the jury.... fourm.
|
|
|
Post by janinthepan513 on Dec 5, 2011 19:10:25 GMT -5
Somewhat impressed by how well most of this thread has gone.
First off-To the OP, your looking for homophobic remarks in Rifftrax only after finding out Mike is a conservative doesn't make you much better than the homophobes who look for stereotypical behavior of gay people. Being conservative does not make you homophobic.
But I agree with most of the posters here-this is COMEDY. It's meant to be tongue-in-cheek, and people need to be willing to laugh at themselves. I've never found any mst3k/rifftrax material hateful at all-it always works as just for fun humor (often very intelligently).
That being said, to speak more generally, comedians fill an important role in society by discussing taboo issues through humor. Attack them for, or deprive them the ability to, push the envelope, and you create a very boring (and repressed) world.
|
|