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Post by mylungswereaching on Dec 6, 2011 12:45:57 GMT -5
I agree that Mike is a comedian and his comedy does not target gays any more than any other group. Good comedy frequently comes close to and over the line of good taste.
The idea that being conservative and being anti gay is not as far fetched as it seems. If you Google conservative and gay and look at first few pages, you can see lots of examples of groups that call themselves conservatives whose whole purpose is to fight against gay causes like gay marriage or gay adoptions. The official party platforms of many republican groups is anti gay. Is this caused by some rational reason or fear and religion?
When I look at gun control, I see that in general, but with a lot of exceptions, conservatives are against it and liberals for it. When you ask both sides why, they can give you a 1/2 dozen solid logical reasons to support their side. When you ask a conservative why not allow gay adoptions, which could save the government millions of dollars, the answers usually boil down to, we've always done it this way or its bad because its not good or misinterpret scientific studies to say something they never said. When someone is vehemently against something and cannot give a good reason why they are against it, the reason usually boils down to irrational fear or religious indoctrination.
There is a small but very vocal and influential part of the republican party that is blatantly homophobic. There is no equivalent group in the democratic party. That is why when someone hears a person who identifies themselves as conservatives say something that might be taken as anti gay, there is a tendency to ask is this person part of that homophobic group of conservatives.
I want to point out that any blanket statement about all liberals or all conservatives is stupid. Pointing out that some very vocal parts of the group exhibit certain behaviors is not.
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Post by mrmeadows on Dec 7, 2011 1:23:40 GMT -5
I have to agree with mylungswereaching. Being conservative does not mean one is homophobic, but being homophobic (i.e. anti-gay marriage, adoption, etc.) more than likely means one is conservative.
Not a broad-brush statement, just the way it is.
(That said, I still don't think there is any "hate" behind the gay jokes in MST3K or RT).
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Post by Mantis on Jan 22, 2012 20:48:01 GMT -5
Good grief what utter nonsense this whole thread is! Yes Mike is conservative. I am an ultra conservative and....and....gasp.....a CHRISTIAN! Many things I believe in have been parodied on MST3K and on Rifftrax. Christianity is parodied as much as any other subject on the planet. My question is since when is mindless liberalism the "right" or "normal" way to think. Having majored in Accoutning, with minors in finance and economics in college the fact is liberalism is absurd from every angle and at every level. I've put up with the leftwing media's misportrayal of the tea party as racists even though you won't find a single instance of racism at a tea party. The idiotic "claims"of racism on TV a couple years ago were proven to be total lies. I'm getting off on a tangent but my point is Mike's admited conservatism (yes it IS true) has NOTHING to do with his ability to be funny. Mike is also a Christian. Yes when Mike and the gang crack on Christian beliefs and history I don't find it offensive unless they take the name of my Lord in vain. As far as homophobia...that's a word that is so overused and often misused it isn't even funny. And if someone who is a Christian dares to disagree with that lifestyle because of our beliefs we are automatically labeled as "homophobes" just like if we dare to disagree with Obama's destructive and frankly moronic policies we are mis-labeled as racists. A phobia is a "fear of". We aren't afraid of homosexuality...we just believe it to be wrong. But if we dare say that we are lit up by the lefties. But when i see Mike joke about my beliefs my skin is a bit thicker than that just as a homosexual's skin should be.
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Post by MonsterX on Jan 22, 2012 23:42:48 GMT -5
This thread is not about whether or not the tea-party is racist- it is about whether or not Mike is homophobic. (To address the first part of your post.)
It's also easy to say that the word homophobia is overused when you are not a member of the LGBT community and you have no idea what it is to fear for your life while walking down a dark street late at night, just because of your sexuality. Do you fear for your life because you are Christian?
That being said, you of course have the right to think whatever you want regarding your Christian beliefs. (Or at least your interpretation of Christs teachings.) However, when you discriminate against someone, which is what you are doing when you say that being gay is a "lifestyle", as if gay people choose their sexuality, and then try to hide behind a bible, don't be surprised when you get called out for being a ignorant biggot who has no idea what he is talking about.
As a pansexual and bigender person, I've never thought that Mike or the gang were homophobic. Like a previous poster mentioned, I always thought that they were mocking the homophobic viewpoint.
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Post by TheNewMads on Jan 23, 2012 10:28:10 GMT -5
To just pick one aspect of the polemic above, I think the idea behind "homophobia" isn't that anti-gay bigots fear gay people outright, but that they have homosexual impulses or desires that they're repressing, and THAT's the thing they fear. If you look at the history of politicians who publicly endorse anti-gay legislation, they do seem to get caught with, say, hot young filipino men they pay full time to carry their luggage around and give them non-erotic, non-gay massages with non-gay happy endings. that's the idea behind "homophobia," and there does seem to be something to it.
There seems to be an absolutist streak in Mantis' thinking here. Really? EVERYTHING having to do with liberalism is absurd? there has absolutely never been a single racist in the tea party? That kind of absolutism makes the overall argument harder to accept, because it makes it seem like not a lot of thought has been put into it, frankly.
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Post by Mantis on Jan 23, 2012 10:32:54 GMT -5
This thread is not about whether or not the tea-party is racist- it is about whether or not Mike is homophobic. (To address the first part of your post.) It's also easy to say that the word homophobia is overused when you are not a member of the LGBT community and you have no idea what it is to fear for your life while walking down a dark street late at night, just because of your sexuality. Do you fear for your life because you are Christian? That being said, you of course have the right to think whatever you want regarding your Christian beliefs. (Or at least your interpretation of Christs teachings.) However, when you discriminate against someone, which is what you are doing when you say that being gay is a "lifestyle", as if gay people choose their sexuality, and then try to hide behind a bible, don't be surprised when you get called out for being a ignorant biggot who has no idea what he is talking about. As a pansexual and bigender person, I've never thought that Mike or the gang were homophobic. Like a previous poster mentioned, I always thought that they were mocking the homophobic viewpoint. But the word homophobic IS overused to the point of ridiculous. We are not afraid of homosexuals. Real Christians don't carry picket signs and march against homosexuality. Real Christians don't commit violence against a person just because of their beliefs. But of course our left wing media zeros in on what few wackos you see doing that. What real Christians do is we share the Gospel with everyone equally and it is up to them to either accept it, reject it, or twist it so that their lifestyle can fit into it (square peg in round hole). In short, we love everyone equally.
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Post by Mantis on Jan 23, 2012 10:39:37 GMT -5
To just pick one aspect of the polemic above, I think the idea behind "homophobia" isn't that anti-gay bigots fear gay people outright, but that they have homosexual impulses or desires that they're repressing, and THAT's the thing they fear. If you look at the history of politicians who publicly endorse anti-gay legislation, they do seem to get caught with, say, hot young filipino men they pay full time to carry their luggage around and give them non-erotic, non-gay massages with non-gay happy endings. that's the idea behind "homophobia," and there does seem to be something to it. There seems to be an absolutist streak in Mantis' thinking here. Really? EVERYTHING having to do with liberalism is absurd? there has absolutely never been a single racist in the tea party? That kind of absolutism makes the overall argument harder to accept, because it makes it seem like not a lot of thought has been put into it, frankly. Liberalism is absurd at every level. It pretends to be about the poor but in fact has done nothing but fuel poverty. It pretends to be about equality in race yet history shows it to be the most racist of the two viewpoints. I have decades of thought and study put into this though my post may not be that well written. It's just my belief. But here's the deeper point in relation to this thread. Mike has a right to his views and shouldn't be chastised for a viewpoint that better represents the majority of Americans, (though the leftwing media tries so laughably to mis-portray conservatism as abnormal and not lining up with most of the country). In other words boycotting Rifftrax because Mike is mainstream is about as stupid and mindless as me refusing to go to a really good movie starring Alec Baldwin just because Baldwin (and most of Hollywood for that matter) is a liberal nutjob.
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Post by TheNewMads on Jan 23, 2012 11:00:17 GMT -5
i dunno, did anyone suggest boycotting Rifftrax because Mike's allegedly homophobic? I don't think anyone has suggested that. I personally DO detect a bit of homophobia in mike's riffing style but i don't think he does it consciously or out of ill will. I'm not trying to come down on him for it, I just think it's sorta a fun thing to speculate about. If anything was gonna make me boycott rifftrax/MST3k, it would probably be their race jokes, which to me are a lot more questionable. For instance, in "Watch Out for my Plants," for some reason they make a lot of jokes assuming the lead family is living in a depressed neighborhood, but it actually looks like a pretty decent neighborhood and it's hard not to conclude that they make that assumption just because the family's black. I dunno, I've been iffy on that since way back in the Warrior of the Lost World days and "Get yo' honky ass back down on the flo'." It doesn't make me mad, but i just think to myself, wow, I wouldn't have gone there.
I'll demur from discussing the liberalism/conservatism stuff.
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Post by continosbuckle on Jan 24, 2012 12:55:58 GMT -5
But the word homophobic IS overused to the point of ridiculous. We are not afraid of homosexuals. Real Christians don't carry picket signs and march against homosexuality. Real Christians don't commit violence against a person just because of their beliefs. But of course our left wing media zeros in on what few wackos you see doing that. What real Christians do is we share the Gospel with everyone equally and it is up to them to either accept it, reject it, or twist it so that their lifestyle can fit into it (square peg in round hole). In short, we love everyone equally. rationalwiki.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsman
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Post by TheNewMads on Jan 24, 2012 14:03:54 GMT -5
But the word homophobic IS overused to the point of ridiculous. We are not afraid of homosexuals. Real Christians don't carry picket signs and march against homosexuality. Real Christians don't commit violence against a person just because of their beliefs. But of course our left wing media zeros in on what few wackos you see doing that. What real Christians do is we share the Gospel with everyone equally and it is up to them to either accept it, reject it, or twist it so that their lifestyle can fit into it (square peg in round hole). In short, we love everyone equally. rationalwiki.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsmanexactly! i wrote a huge missive to this effect and then deleted it. I really need to work on being pithier.
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Post by Mr. Atari on Jan 24, 2012 18:17:48 GMT -5
Okay. This thread has had some good discussion, but we're way too deep in the minefield for this particular board. Take it to Observer's Brain if you want to continue.
Thanks.
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