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Post by timmy on May 20, 2020 10:41:05 GMT -5
"Nothing is off-limits when it comes to ridicule"- This is true only to a point. If it's taken to a ridiculous extreme and not explained properly, comments can be absolutely taken too far.
Liberal worldview-This is not representative of the series as a whole. The members who would go o to create Cinematic Titanic are liberals. The Rifftrax crew are so conservative that their heartbeats play "Peter was a Fireball". And that's why I find Rifftrax to be the most oppressive project to come out of MST3K. I get so tired of their riffs about having an interest in musical theater automatically makes you gay and oh dear God, their rage boner for Arby's comes dangerously close to a complex.
Bill is very liberal, and Kevin has described his politics as being closer to Bill’s than Mike’s. Mike is the only conservative of the three (if you count Mary Jo and Bridget they split evenly between left and right). I can’t speak to the politics of writers Conor and Sean. the show is (was) an equal opportunity offender when it came to political views on things
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Post by Shane on May 20, 2020 10:57:05 GMT -5
Let's place a rule; have a reasonable discussion and no attacks. Some jets beed to be cooled in this thread.
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Post by mylungswereaching on May 20, 2020 12:25:11 GMT -5
Let's place a rule; have a reasonable discussion and no attacks. Some jets beed to be cooled in this thread. In a thread talking about whether or not MST3k was too mean sometimes, a moderator comes in to tell people not to be too mean.
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Post by crowschmo on May 20, 2020 13:39:24 GMT -5
Talking about a baby saying "ow, you snapped my neck" I don't think is "too far", since no actual babies were harmed and it's not like those commenting wished there WERE. It's a fake premise. Talking about characters in a movie I don't think is going too far, because, you know, they're fake. It's when they talk about actual people that I think that they can go a bit too far. Like the Judy Garland comment in the pill popping scene in Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. She had a sh*tty upbringing and got hooked on pills when she was very young - pills forced on her by her mother and MGM. She was forced to get an abortion by her mother and first husband (her first pregnancy). She really felt like she had no control over her life when she was young and when she was older was fighting substance abuse constantly and ended up overdosing. That's pretty tragic, so I don't think the comment was called for. Only things like that I think are going too far. When it's directed at real, actual people. Like if they're calling someone fat or ugly, they are directing that at the actor/actress and not really the character, so that's unnecessary. Or when they say something that perpetuates stereotypes - unless they are deliberately making FUN of those stereotypes and making fun of the attitude behind it. Saying Lucy isn't funny is just an opinion, not an insult really, so I don't think things like that are "too far." If he said she was a POS, that would be a little different. So, if it's just directed at the crappiness of the movie and the direction and lighting and the characters, then anything goes, I think. These are opinions about the work, which any "artist" is opening themselves up to once they put it on display for the world to see. It's not like they are bombarding the writers and directors and actors of a movie with hate mail and calling them scum (you know, like people on Twitter do in this day and age). Saying the character of a kid is a brat or a jerk is not like saying it to an actual kid's face. So, I think most of what they do on MST3K is just fine.
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Post by fathermushroom on Jun 25, 2020 20:43:56 GMT -5
I'm with Crowschmo on this one, generally. I get a little uncomfortable when they remorselessly lay into Joe Don Baker in "Final Justice," because the riffs seem to be about Joe Don personally, whereas in "Mitchell" they appeared to be about the character (and they were a bit less hostile overall).
And--slightly off-topic--I've always thought the character of Mitchell was well played and likable in the way the director wanted him to be. He was a straight shooter who didn't mind pissing people off in the pursuit of justice. In "Final Justice" Joe Don portrayed a more embarrassing sort of USA-or-else chauvinistic bore.
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Post by foreign object on Jun 26, 2020 14:05:47 GMT -5
Off the top of my head I'd have to agree with the Judy Garland jibes as well. I'm actually watching the short "Progress Island USA" from "The Beast of Yucca Flats" and there's a JG riff in there as well. She was an easy tragic target. Other than that I can't think of any others that stand out.
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Post by GarrettCRW on Jun 26, 2020 20:23:21 GMT -5
I find it odd that Ernest Hemingway was discussed previously because I thought that riff was a bit harsh towards Alan Hale, Jr. myself. The man was not what I'd call a great actor, but he didn't exactly deserve the fate that landed him in the majority of his MST3K appearances.
In general, the jokes I find harsh are the ones directed at actors/crew members who had less-than-happy careers/lives, or more regularly, the jokes that wouldn't fly today (like the ones about the masculine-looking woman in Incredibly Strange Creatures). It's not an exactly science, but I find that if I'm cringing even slightly, it was probably harsh.
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Jun 27, 2020 3:25:28 GMT -5
It's not an exactly science, but I find that if I'm cringing even slightly, it was probably harsh. I think the fact that it's not exactly a science is part of the, uh... I dunno if this is a "problem", but let's call it one for the sake of the platitude. One of the things I've occasionally seen in comedy writing (particularly stand-up, but I imagine in sketch writing as well) is that comedians keep trying to find the "sweet spot" of laughter at the intersection between harmless jokes and cruel (or otherwise challenging) jokes. Genuinely good humor needs to be backed up by some teeth somewhere, and there isn't a guidebook for where those teeth are. As such, you wind up with comedy sketches where they'll try to figure out how far they can push things because they have to keep trying. And sometimes they push too far. I think this is why a lot of stand-up comedians can take a bit to respond if another comedian is accused of going too far with a routine. There's a sort of mutual understanding that "pushing the envelope" doesn't mean "hey, let's say what we want, because THE MAN won't censor us, woo!", it means "Okay, is it funnier if I do this? Okay, how about seeing if it's funnier if I do *this*? Maybe... maybe I should do thi-... nope, abort, too far, too far..." Almost listed some examples here, but no, no I shouldn't do that...
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Post by glowgirl004 on Jan 21, 2021 13:43:31 GMT -5
The one that always comes to mind for me for harsh is "PILLS for dinner?" "Ho ho, who am I? Judy Garland?"
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Post by comedyc on Jan 23, 2021 17:26:07 GMT -5
It's a large part of why I don't revisit the Sci-Fi era often. The riffs get nasty in spots and it's just not relaxing for me.
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Post by hike'em'up on Jan 24, 2021 10:49:46 GMT -5
It's a large part of why I don't revisit the Sci-Fi era often. The riffs get nasty in spots and it's just not relaxing for me. its a big reason why Ive always favored the Joel-era.
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Post by cahvaydweller on Feb 18, 2021 18:37:48 GMT -5
"Nothing is off-limits when it comes to ridicule"- This is true only to a point. If it's taken to a ridiculous extreme and not explained properly, comments can be absolutely taken too far.
Liberal worldview-This is not representative of the series as a whole. The members who would go o to create Cinematic Titanic are liberals. The Rifftrax crew are so conservative that their heartbeats play "Peter was a Fireball". And that's why I find Rifftrax to be the most oppressive project to come out of MST3K. I get so tired of their riffs about having an interest in musical theater automatically makes you gay and oh dear God, their rage boner for Arby's comes dangerously close to a complex.
Bill is very liberal, and Kevin has described his politics as being closer to Bill’s than Mike’s. Mike is the only conservative of the three (if you count Mary Jo and Bridget they split evenly between left and right). I can’t speak to the politics of writers Conor and Sean. Sorry for necroposting but I literally just saw this. I'm surprised to hear Bill's a liberal since his hatred for musical theater is easily equal to Mike's.
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Post by comedyc on Feb 18, 2021 20:15:07 GMT -5
Bill is a playwright, so I'm sure he has all sorts of theater opinions.
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Post by majorjoe23 on Feb 19, 2021 10:59:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure why I thought 3-2 was an even split. It's Bill, Mary Jo and Kevin on the left, Mike and Bridget on the right. Though that may just be an assumption for Bridget, based on her religion and marriage to Mike. I've never actually seen her discuss politics.
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