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Post by Crowfan on Sept 8, 2014 17:57:11 GMT -5
I didn't think this should go in the football thread since it's not really about football.. The Ravens released running back Ray Race after new video surfaced of him and his then fiance, now wife, in that elevator. Here's the link to the video: WARNING!!! GRAPHIC!!! www.tmz.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice-elevator-knockout-fiancee-takes-crushing-punch-video/I was raised that a man never ever hits a woman. Any "man" who hits a woman is not a man at all.
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Post by MadDog1981 on Sept 8, 2014 20:01:51 GMT -5
I would be fine with him getting black balled from the NFL.
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Post by Mr. Atari on Sept 8, 2014 23:22:02 GMT -5
I don't agree with him on many things, but I wholeheartedly agree with Keith Olbermann's take. If the NFL had seen the video before and only suspended Rice for 2 games, they are unbelievably complicit and Goodell should resign immediately. If the NFL had only seen the video outside the elevator and suspended Rice for 2 games without doing any more investigating, and even getting outbid for the evidence by TMZ, they are unbelievably inept and Goodell should resign immediately. The NFL held the fiancee up as a scapegoat, proclaimed the high character of Rice, and floated sources to league-friendly "journalists" who proclaimed that the NFL had seen the evidence. When league mouthpieces like Adam Schefter, Peter King, and Chris Mortensen all agree that the NFL screwed them over, you know it's an epic disaster. No matter how this is spun, the NFL is grossly at fault and has lost whatever flimsy credibility it had. And that's saying a lot after everything else that's happened on Goodell's watch-- Michael Vick, Spygate, Bountygate, Incognito hazing, concussions, ex-player suicides, adding more Thursday night games while claiming to care about the player's safety, the handling of the referee strike, looking the other way on HGH and PEDs, a murder-suicide in Kansas City, and Aaron Hernandez. The NFL-- it's fantastic!
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Post by Crowfan on Sept 9, 2014 4:59:35 GMT -5
I'm not an Olbermann fan but he got it right and I agree with him 100%. Godell must go.
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Post by MadDog1981 on Sept 9, 2014 5:55:34 GMT -5
Not to defend Godell but they suspended him for 2 games and then turned around and made the penalty for domestic violence a lot harsher.
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Post by nondescript spice on Sept 9, 2014 12:09:30 GMT -5
i agree with olbermann. the nfl is a sham. i like football but don't watch much of it, but even i can see the corruption. the story and the video sickened me. but what i can't get my head around is that the woman married price after this?? i know that has little to do with the present story, but that was a big wtf moment for me.
if some douchebag in anytown, usa got caught on video punching his girlfriend or wife out cold, he'd be in jail. most likely. gosh, i don't even know anymore. i suppose palmer married rice after he punched her hard enough to knock her out because of the same reason the nfl hoped no one would make a big deal out of this - money.
even as i type this, i heard a blip on the news that vp biden approved of the ravens and the nfl's decision to sack rice. hurrah. too little, too late.
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Post by Crowfan on Sept 9, 2014 16:54:33 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I heard this right, but apparently both Ray Rice and his wife spoke publicly and she defended him and wanted people to respect their privacy. Did I hear that right?
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Post by nondescript spice on Sept 9, 2014 17:38:21 GMT -5
yeah, i saw it on msn news today.
according to her instagram, his wife posted this:
"I woke up this morning feeling like I had a horrible nightmare, feeling like I'm mourning the death of my closest friend," Janay Rice wrote. "But to have to accept the fact that it's reality is a nightmare in itself. No one knows the pain that the media & unwanted options from the public has caused my family. To make us relive a moment in our lives that we regret every day is a horrible thing. To take something away from the man I love that he has worked his ass off for all his life just to gain ratings is horrific."
i know i shouldn't judge here, but i just can't believe anyone would voluntarily support someone who could be so brutal - and from what i saw from the video, totally remorseless. domestic violence is a multifaceted plague that i don't claim to understand. i used to volunteer for a DV shelter in my town, and i was amazed at some of the things i learned. what stood out the most was how many times a woman would go back to a violent husband or boyfriend before she finally left for good - hopefully before she was killed. since the wife isn't playing the victim here, i suppose we should just let her stay with this jerk. maybe if he was taugh that beating a woman is okay, she has wrongly learned she deserves it. i hope it's worth his money. and i just hope they don't have kids.
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Post by Mod City on Sept 9, 2014 17:56:03 GMT -5
The first video was awful, this new one is somehow even worse. It's beyond disappointing as to exactly what professional sports leagues (and teams and their owners) will turn a blind eye to when it comes to embracing players of questionable character. Maybe the NFL's handling of this situation will act as a wake up call to all sports professionals when it comes to who they are, who they represent and who they want to be.
And while it's somewhat part of a different discussion, remember when Michael Sam was going to ruin the league? I thought I saw this video posted here earlier but I can't find it. Dale Hansen, ABC sportscaster in Dallas, talking about Sam coming out as gay and his prospects in the NFL draft. He calls out the NFL for this kind of stuff well before the Rice video broke. It's a little over 2 minutes but it's worth watching, especially the first half in regard to this issue.
Hansen was also the sportscaster who broke open the Southern Methodist University football scandal in the 80s, as well as some other good work over the years.
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Post by Crowfan on Sept 10, 2014 14:11:47 GMT -5
What I don't understand is if the grand jury had this tape, why the Hell isn't he in jail??? I mean, if I did that to someone in an elevator or otherwise, I'd be arrested. Why was he not arrested?
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Post by Crowfan on Sept 10, 2014 18:17:35 GMT -5
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Post by GarrettCRW on Sept 11, 2014 3:25:01 GMT -5
Rice got the standard "rich and/or famous" favorable treatment from the police in New Jersey, where he just so happened to have played college football (at Rutgers). They hid behind the refusal by Rice's now wife to prosecute. (FUN FACT: Goodell interviewed the two during his disciplinary hearings TOGETHER, which is the last thing you want to do if there's a chance of spousal abuse.) On today's show, Olbermann called for Goodell to be fired, as letting him quit isn't a harsh enough stand against the guy's misdeeds.
Seriously, Goodell makes me miss Tagliabue, and that guy was as lame a stuffed shirt as the sport has ever seen. I think that Mark Cuban may have overshot his estimation on the fall of the NFL by putting it at ten years.
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Post by nondescript spice on Sept 18, 2014 14:25:00 GMT -5
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Post by Crowfan on Sept 18, 2014 17:24:15 GMT -5
And it just keeps getting worse and worse. Jonathan Dwyer of the Cardinals broke his wife's nose because she didn't want to have sex with him. Nice guy. And this happened after the Ray Rice news and video broke. Amazing how stupid some people are.
And I'm not a Patriots fan, but I will give them credit, and a lot of it. When Aaron Hernandez was accused of murder and some other charges, the Patriots cut him. No waiting for due process or anything else. They did the right thing and other teams should take notice of that.
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Post by mylungswereaching on Sept 19, 2014 16:36:22 GMT -5
I'm not sure how these things should be handled. I know I don't like one size fits all.
Some cases are easy. A case with a violent offender who shows no remorse at the time and it's all on video is a no brainer. Ray Rice was easy. Most of the other recent cases have enough evidence to make a reasonable decision. If the cops come and the couple is screaming at each other and the wife's nose is broken, something bad happened. The NFL doesn't have to wait for due process. If the case is reasonably clear cut, they can and should act.
What happens when a less obvious case comes up? A husband and a wife are having a loud argument. The police are called and by law the husband is arrested. After interviewing the husband and wife separately both have essentially the same story, a lot of yelling, no physical violence. There may even be a video which show that there was no physical violence. The police officer who talks to the wife see's no evidence of physical abuse. But the husband was arrested for spousal abuse, should he get a suspension by the league?
In a lot of cases boil down to he said there was no violence. She said there was no violence. A broken nose said that there was violence. She says she slipped on ice in the driveway. He says he doesn't know what happened because he wasn't home when it happened. A doctor says that the broken nose looks like it came from a punch not a fall. Maybe he hit her, even probably he hit her. The police do nothing because there isn't enough evidence. Is it enough to throw him out of the league?
What happens in the previous case if the guy is banned from the league and 6 months later a neighbor realizes that she really did fall in her driveway and he caught it on a security camera? What do we do with a guy whose lost a year out of his career when both he and his wife says there was no crime but couldn't prove it at the time? What if he was a marginal player who may or may not have been in the league with or without the suspension? What happens when mental illness is added? He slaps her. He feels appalled at himself and goes for help. She never reports it to the police because he was obviously remorseful and took immediate active steps to get help. Doctor determines that the violence was partially related to his depression etc. He's given treatment and it seems to be working. Someone at his doctors office breaks the law and tells the League. League bans him. Is it right to ban someone for having a mental illness when they are in active treatment for their behavior?
Some cases of spousal abuse are clear cut. Many more are not. Who gets to decide?
The Ray Rice case is a case in point. Ray Rice is accused of a crime. The legal system tells him that he must go for treatment and do community service. He agrees and does what he's told to do. He takes full responsibility for his own actions. The NFL looks at what the law decided and determined a short suspension was appropriate. The NFL followed the lead of the legal system. They changed their minds when the video became public.
There was a fairly recent case where a talented but mentally ill football player was caught hitting his girlfriend. The team made him go to the team doctor. The doctor recommended a treatment program. The doctors in the program told the team that he and his girlfriend were better off if he stayed in the structured life that the NFL provided. He continued in the program. Later on he killed his girlfriend and killed himself in front of his coach. Would it have been better if the league had just suspended him?
What criteria should the NFL use? In the USA, someone can get life in prison for having a small amount of pot but 3 years in prison for beating someone to death. Aaron Hernandez will probably end up spending less time in prison for killing multiple people than many people have for having a relatively small amount of drugs in their possession.
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