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Post by Udvarnoky on Sept 1, 2019 11:08:31 GMT -5
Considering that Hampton and Baron were not even offered enough to make the tour worthwhile for them, I'm not entirely sure the current cast is the big expenditure we are assuming them to be. For all we know they're being as paid as much as nobodies would be and are working below their rates out of love for the show. And considering the crazy schedule the reboot apparently produces the host segments on, Patton and Felicia's on-screen work might only amount to a week per season.
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Post by Megalon on Sept 1, 2019 12:46:45 GMT -5
I still think it's too early to say Netflix definitely won't pick up more MST3K though. They could have just cancelled it already. The fact that they're still "in negotiations" ... Why do you think they're still in negotiations? I think it's more likely that negotiations broke down several months ago and Joel/Shout are now trying to decide on a new distribution/production model for the show. As BoB3k suggested earlier, the responsibility for announcing a "cancellation" is probably Joel's, not Netflix's (due to the unique relationship that Shout and Netflix have, which is different from the relationship Netflix has with its other "originals"). So Netflix's silence on the matter isn't necessarily indicative of ongoing negotiations (IMO). The only reason we haven't heard anything from Joel, I imagine, is because (1) news that the show is "cancelled" would adversely affect the tour, and (2) it would be better to break the bad news alongside the good news that the show will be continuing in a new format (which they haven't decided on yet). My prediction is that we'll hear something once a decision has been made (regarding the show's future), or on/around Turkey Day, whichever comes first. Or, in the worst case scenario (i.e. the Netflix contract precludes any new MST3k for 2-3 years), Joel might wait until after the tour ends to tell us anything. But come Turkey Day, there will be so many questions that I don't think he can reasonably brush the matter aside. That's my crystal-ball analysis, anyway. I could be completely wrong. Here's hoping Netflix has ordered three 22-episode seasons and we'll be rolling in new MST3k episodes this time next year.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Sept 1, 2019 13:57:44 GMT -5
If they got roped into a 2-3 year exclusivity deal for 6 measly episodes, of which Netflix didn't cover the entire cost, they got MASSIVELY ripped-off. That would be huge incompetence on Shout/Joel's part.
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Post by monkeypretzel on Sept 1, 2019 14:52:19 GMT -5
Considering that Hampton and Baron were not even offered enough to make the tour worthwhile for them, I'm not entirely sure the current cast is the big expenditure we are assuming them to be. For all we know they're being as paid as much as nobodies would be and are working below their rates out of love for the show. And considering the crazy schedule the reboot apparently produces the host segments on, Patton and Felicia's on-screen work might only amount to a week per season. A day per Season. At least they were only on set one day for Season 12.
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Post by Megalon on Sept 1, 2019 14:53:09 GMT -5
If they got roped into a 2-3 year exclusivity deal for 6 measly episodes, of which Netflix didn't cover the entire cost, they got MASSIVELY ripped-off. That would be huge incompetence on Shout/Joel's part. I agree. And maybe it's unlikely. But I can imagine scenarios where Joel/Shout would have agreed to such a deal. It's very possible that they were willing to gamble everything on another Netflix season, for example. "Go big or go home" sort of thing. Either the show hits the big-time on a major platform, or they go home empty-handed.
It would certainly be consistent with their other decisions regarding the reboot -- hiring a young cast, upping the budget, etc. If they were content with being a small-time venture, they would have gone the RiffTrax route from the beginning, but they clearly wanted MST3k to become a cultural phenomenon once again, and Netflix was the path they chose in pursuit of that goal. Who knows what they wouldn't have agreed to in pursuit of that dream?
Yes, I'm over-analyzing things. We don't have much information go on beyond the perception that negotiations seem to be taking longer than they should. But I wouldn't bother speculating it if weren't fun.
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Post by monkeypretzel on Sept 1, 2019 15:17:18 GMT -5
If they got roped into a 2-3 year exclusivity deal for 6 measly episodes, of which Netflix didn't cover the entire cost, they got MASSIVELY ripped-off. That would be huge incompetence on Shout/Joel's part. "Joel is the worst negotiator I ever met." - Unnamed cast member. I took that with a grain of salt when I first heard it from a MSTie with a couple of industry connections two years ago, while we were all waiting for an announcement on a Season 12 renewal and wondering what was taking so long. But when I heard it again this spring from a different MSTie who has met several cast members at various events, I took it a little more seriously. That stuff Joel said about not being able to sell the show to foreign markets so he needed to raise funds to stay out of debt for S12? You have to assume Netflix was aware of that too, so why not negotiate for more money to cover all the production costs? (The other possibility is that Netflix did provide full funding, and Joel went over budget like he did for Season 11 and needed an excuse when people kept asking why a pledge drive.) It's also possible that Netflix exclusivity is why the live shows aren't being recorded (as far as we know).
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Post by mylungswereaching on Sept 1, 2019 17:38:31 GMT -5
Set up a permanent fixed set for the SOL and Mads in a place with really cheap rent and easy access and leave it up year round. Renting a studio in LA, then hiring people to build a set for a month and then tearing it down and starting all over again could easily be more expensive in the long run than building a set in a place with really cheap rent and leave it standing and even renting it out. Rent out the expensive stuff like the cameras when needed but keep the set standing. Or break the set down and store it in a storage place until you need it again a few years from now. The cost of carpenters and such must be much higher in LA than in the Midwest some place.
Most host segments are not linked to the movies. So they could write a whole bunch of them all at once. You could do a couple of years worth in a week. 3 or 4 days to set everything up. Fly in the mads. Film 2 years of mad segments in a day or two. Then bring in the SOL crew and film their segments in a day or two. Then return the rented equipment. If the Mads are doing it mostly for the love of the show, they may not ask a lot of money for a days worth of work every two or three years.
Then get the movies. Get the writers together somewhere and spend a week or two for each movie writing the jokes like in the old days. Some writers like the Mads can send in jokes if they like and receive writing credit. There doesn't have to be anything fancy for this. It could be an office building or even at someones home. If the writers are in LA, do it in LA. Its a lot cheaper to rent a room than a studio.
Once you get the movies written, film the theater segments, either at their own studio or rent one in L.A.
Salaries is always the biggest expense in any business. The only full timers should be the writers. The Mads are hired for 1 or 2 days every 2 or 3 years. The technical people are only hired when actually filming which would be a week for two or 3 years of host segments and a couple of days for each movies theater segments if everything is written out in advance.
MST3k could get a movie, write and film the entire episode in a week to ten days. I don't see why they couldn't do the same thing now except that there are three separate processes. Writing, host segments and theater segments.
I think that the price ballooned because it wasn't planned well enough and Joel isn't a slave driving task master. You really need a new Jim Mallon for the theater segments if you want to keep the costs under command.
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Post by Ford Prefect on Sept 1, 2019 18:21:06 GMT -5
I still think it's too early to say Netflix definitely won't pick up more MST3K though. They could have just cancelled it already. The fact that they're still "in negotiations" ... Why do you think they're still in negotiations? I think it's more likely that negotiations broke down several months ago and Joel/Shout are now trying to decide on a new distribution/production model for the show. As BoB3k suggested earlier, the responsibility for announcing a "cancellation" is probably Joel's, not Netflix's (due to the unique relationship that Shout and Netflix have, which is different from the relationship Netflix has with its other "originals"). So Netflix's silence on the matter isn't necessarily indicative of ongoing negotiations (IMO). The only reason we haven't heard anything from Joel, I imagine, is because (1) news that the show is "cancelled" would adversely affect the tour, and (2) it would be better to break the bad news alongside the good news that the show will be continuing in a new format (which they haven't decided on yet). My prediction is that we'll hear something once a decision has been made (regarding the show's future), or on/around Turkey Day, whichever comes first. Or, in the worst case scenario (i.e. the Netflix contract precludes any new MST3k for 2-3 years), Joel might wait until after the tour ends to tell us anything. But come Turkey Day, there will be so many questions that I don't think he can reasonably brush the matter aside. That's my crystal-ball analysis, anyway. I could be completely wrong. Here's hoping Netflix has ordered three 22-episode seasons and we'll be rolling in new MST3k episodes this time next year. I think they're still in negotiations because Joel said so in one of the live tour updates. He could be lying of course, but since I haven't heard anything from such solid sources as "unnamed cast member" to say otherwise, I'll take him on his word for the time being. We talk about expenses on the show but those are sort of relative in juxtaposition with other aspects. The show is more expensive now, but almost everything is more expensive than it was in the 90s. Compared to most other modern shows, it's still pretty cheap. When you look up most expensive Netflix shows you won't find MST3K anywhere on the list. Not bad for a program where the series is well received critically and every episode is feature length. How much lower can the budget get before it becomes unacceptable to fans and casual viewers? A lot of that goes to licensing movies, which apparently have to be good prints of widescreen color titles. I'm not sure trying to emulate the 90s Mallon method anymore than they already are is something they can or even want to do now.
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Post by Megalon on Sept 1, 2019 19:27:28 GMT -5
I think they're still in negotiations because Joel said so in one of the live tour updates. Hm. Are those the same updates that appear on the News tab of the Tour website? Because I can't find anything related to Netflix, Season 13, or ongoing negotiations. Similarly, the last Kickstarter update (#78) was about the tour, and it didn't mention any of those things. Neither did Update #77, sent April 18. There haven't been any other Kickstarter updates since Season 12 was released. I also checked Joel's Twitter posts from the past six months. Nada.
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Post by Ford Prefect on Sept 2, 2019 7:07:16 GMT -5
I think they're still in negotiations because Joel said so in one of the live tour updates. Hm. Are those the same updates that appear on the News tab of the Tour website? Because I can't find anything related to Netflix, Season 13, or ongoing negotiations. Similarly, the last Kickstarter update (#78) was about the tour, and it didn't mention any of those things. Neither did Update #77, sent April 18. There haven't been any other Kickstarter updates since Season 12 was released. I also checked Joel's Twitter posts from the past six months. Nada. He briefly alludes to it at the very end of the last Kickstarter update. I noticed he seems vaguely optimistic in that he uses the term "seasons" instead of just referring to season 13.
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Post by Megalon on Sept 2, 2019 12:12:56 GMT -5
Hm. Are those the same updates that appear on the News tab of the Tour website? Because I can't find anything related to Netflix, Season 13, or ongoing negotiations. Similarly, the last Kickstarter update (#78) was about the tour, and it didn't mention any of those things. Neither did Update #77, sent April 18. There haven't been any other Kickstarter updates since Season 12 was released. I also checked Joel's Twitter posts from the past six months. Nada. He briefly alludes to it at the very end of the last Kickstarter update. I noticed he seems vaguely optimistic in that he uses the term "seasons" instead of just referring to season 13. Ah, this part: "I also want you to know that we're still in discussions about the future of Mystery Science Theater 3000, and making more seasons. There's no official news yet, because we're focusing most of our attention on preparing for the tour, but as soon as there's something else to share, I'll be sure to tell you."
I think I missed that part before. Thank you.
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Sept 3, 2019 3:19:18 GMT -5
You really need a new Jim Mallon for the theater segments if you want to keep the costs under command. Not super relevant, but when I read this line, my brain edited the identity of Jim Mallon to be Patrick Brantseg and it gave it an entirely different read at first. The importance of a prop master and set designer more than a producer/budget person.
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Post by kidflash on Sept 3, 2019 21:33:29 GMT -5
If they got roped into a 2-3 year exclusivity deal for 6 measly episodes, of which Netflix didn't cover the entire cost, they got MASSIVELY ripped-off. That would be huge incompetence on Shout/Joel's part. Netflix builds some exclusivity into every deal. Look at how hard Sony had to work to extricate One Day At A Time rights from the service in a reasonable timeframe to keep the show going after its cancellation. I would guess the tour is a way to keep MST3K going while Joel and Shout are trying to figure out future plans, be they Netflix or somewhere else.
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Post by Megalon on Sept 3, 2019 21:51:58 GMT -5
I would guess the tour is a way to keep MST3K going while Joel and Shout are trying to figure out future plans, be they Netflix or somewhere else. That's my thinking as well. It reminds me of when Conan O'Brien lost the Tonight Show: his contract forbade him from jumping to another network, so he went on a live tour instead and called it "The Legally Prohibited from Being Funny on Television Tour."
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Post by majorjoe23 on Sept 19, 2019 21:07:29 GMT -5
Some comments from Felicia Day: www.inverse.com/article/59342-mystery-science-theater-3000-season-13-release-date-netflixIn an interview with series star Felicia Day (currently promoting her new book Embrace Your Weird and Season 2 of the sci-fi comedy podcast Voyage to the Stars) tells Inverse the Netflix series is on a break while “The Great Cheesy Movie Circus Tour” takes place throughout the U.S. until March 2020. “I know they are kind of on hold,” Day says. “They’re doing a live tour that will take six months. It’s [creator] Joel Hodgson’s last tour and it’s a farewell tour. I’m hoping once they get settled a little bit they can turn their eye back to the show, because I love being on it.”
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