|
Post by BoB3K on Nov 18, 2019 15:11:42 GMT -5
The coffee table book is finally out. And boy are there some telling things within it.
So, I'm not one of those people who has been losing any sleep at all about not getting the coffee table book for years. When I pledged, I just pledged a bunch and got everything that entailed. I'm not really sure what I was expecting out of it, but I guess some background and behind the scenes stuff, like pics of the writing and shooting and making of the new show.
What we got was a 110 page book that contains around 95 pages of direct evidence of Joel's way, way, WAY overproduction of the new show, and then a few pages about shooting and recording it. Most telling, there is literally NO section of any size about actually writing the damn show, not the riffs, the sketches. They don't even mention what movies were riffed, let alone any kind of episode guide / show thoughts like in the old (and fun and cool) MST3K amazing colossal episode guide. Nothing.
So, now we know were all the money went.
I've always said that I like MST3K for all its parts, and I've always said my ratio is-- 40% discovering and watching a fun cheesy movie, 40% laughing at and enjoying the riffing of the movie as I watch it, and 20% the host segments, the characters, the skits, the inventions, the theme of the show. I know some people think RiffTrax is as good as MST3K, I know some people love the worst, worst movies. But not me. I want a fun watchable cheesy movie, funny and fun riffing, and I want it wrapped in a silly, cheesy, cheap stuck-inside-Saturday-while-it-rains, up-late-at-night-bored-find-a-UHF-monster-movie show.
So I'm one of the people who would back this reboot right? Except, if you look at my ratio, and go to that last 20% and break out how much of that I care specifically about the sets and props and robot designs, it's I dunno 10%?...of the 20%...so like 2% of the show? I mean I want robot puppets and an SOL set and invention exchanges, but I don't care about their production and design. Actually, you assume their design--honestly part of the fun, is that they look and feel and probably were made of spare parts the night before the shoot.
I mean, my god, look at some of those sketches. There's a guy named Guy Davis that has 12 pages of just his drawings. I don't know how much Guy Davis charges for an entire sketchbook full of concept art, but I bet it could easily be as much as was spent on all of the KTMA season, personnel, equipment, lunch, everything.
So, I'm not really sure what Joel thought he was doing with that coffee table book, but to me, it showed me why his reboot was doomed from the beginning, and why they couldn't bring back our show with $5 million.
At this point, I really kind of hope Shout! can somehow take the reigns and maybe Joel will let them do a full, less indulgent* reboot.
*which honestly, that's what this was. Joel indulging himself and his artsy/creative friends. I'm not really sure what to think of Joel at the end of all this. I still love him for creating MST3K and for being Joel Robinson, but I doubt I will give him any more money any time soon.
|
|
|
Post by Diet Kolos on Nov 18, 2019 15:25:31 GMT -5
I got it about a week ago, delivered to my parents house, because I figured it would take years to arrive and I wouldn't know where I'd be living by then.
My parents called me and told me that it got there and I begrudgingly showed up to get it. My dad asked me what it was and if I would open it and I said no, because I really don't care anymore.
So he opened it and flipped through it a little bit. His commentary was that there was a lot concept art, but that he doesn't remember seeing most any of it in the actual show. I took a brief look and agreed.
One that stood out most to me was a big detailed design of what Gizmonic Institute looks like but, I seem to recall only appearing for less than 5 seconds in the show itself. Beyond that it's all blur of sketches of things that look okay on paper but didn't translate well in practical design, or didn't make it to the show at all.
Like you said, it's very obvious that a giant chunk of cash went towards designing and sketching. Not doing.
It's another telltale symptom of putting the cart before the horse: all the stuff outside the theater seemed way way more important than the meat of the show IN the theatre, THE RIFFING, which seemed like a total afterthought.
|
|
|
Post by BoB3K on Nov 18, 2019 15:42:49 GMT -5
It's another telltale symptom of putting the cart before the horse Right. Or maybe in this case, putting the creative cart before the production horse. It's actually a good example to show fans/viewers when they complain about people like Jim Mallon, when in actuality there are places, needs even, for the Jim Mallons along with the Joel Hodgsons.
|
|
|
Post by majorjoe23 on Nov 19, 2019 7:57:34 GMT -5
I, for one, am shocked - shocked - that the very visual process of writing wasn’t documented in a photo-heavy medium like a coffee table book.
You’ve got a real bug up you this week to complain heavily about anything and everything.
|
|
|
Post by Afgncaap5 on Nov 19, 2019 20:19:33 GMT -5
While I don't have one of my own to compare, I fear that the art of the coffee table book and of something like the ACEG are different things. Much as I'd love some focus on the writing (or perhaps production or rehearsals for individual episodes) I can also understand why that might've gotten lost in the rush.
|
|
|
Post by gerswin on Nov 19, 2019 23:57:10 GMT -5
Seems potentially similar to George Lucas and Episodes 1-3. The comparison has probably been made here before. Lucas is brilliant, but things happen when Creatives are given way more control and budget than they'd had in the past.
That said, lots of folks consider Episodes 1-3 to be disasters. I don't think Seasons 11-12 are disasters by any stretch of the imagination. I just think it should have been a slam dunk for a slim budget, and instead it's struggled to stay alive.
|
|
|
Post by BoB3K on Nov 21, 2019 0:08:48 GMT -5
I, for one, am shocked - shocked - that the very visual process of writing wasn’t documented in a photo-heavy medium like a coffee table book. Look, I don't disagree with your point, and I'll even give you your heelarious delivery of it. But, I have to completely disagree. Who said a coffee table book HAS to be a 'photo heavy medium'. In fact, I believe many books, even 'coffee table' books contain words too. Lots of em. I actually think books with words came before any with pictures. Anyway, the Colossal episode guide has almost NO pictures and would be just fine as a coffee table book. You want pictures? Throw the movie poster and a few scenes from the movie in on each page along with the thoughts and behind the scenes for each movie. And there's also NO reason why some of the book couldn't be about the writing process, with words AND pictures of behind the scenes of the writing group, the writing room, etc. And even saying ALL of that, even conceding that a coffee table book should be full of pictures, WHAT those pictures represent is still a bunch of stuff that had little to nothing to do with the bulk of the new season, what was on screen, or what most people really give a crap about MST3K. They're still a record of where Joel spent a lot of his money and time and energy.
|
|
|
Post by BoB3K on Nov 21, 2019 0:23:30 GMT -5
You’ve got a real bug up you this week to complain heavily about anything and everything. Yeah, wonder what that could be. Maybe something to do with all the recent signs that Joel has, after one of the most successful Kickstarters in history, only been able to parlay that into 1.25 seasons of new MST3K before running the project into the ground. And from the looks of it, was barely able to get the extra .25 made without bending to demands from the 'network'. MST3K binging my ass
|
|
|
Post by crowreviews on Jan 6, 2020 21:38:15 GMT -5
I didn't know there was a coffee book, i'll have to check it out.
|
|
|
Post by majorjoe23 on Jan 7, 2020 0:42:12 GMT -5
I, for one, am shocked - shocked - that the very visual process of writing wasn’t documented in a photo-heavy medium like a coffee table book. Look, I don't disagree with your point, and I'll even give you your heelarious delivery of it. But, I have to completely disagree. Who said a coffee table book HAS to be a 'photo heavy medium'. In fact, I believe many books, even 'coffee table' books contain words too. Lots of em. I actually think books with words came before any with pictures. Anyway, the Colossal episode guide has almost NO pictures and would be just fine as a coffee table book. You want pictures? Throw the movie poster and a few scenes from the movie in on each page along with the thoughts and behind the scenes for each movie. And there's also NO reason why some of the book couldn't be about the writing process, with words AND pictures of behind the scenes of the writing group, the writing room, etc. And even saying ALL of that, even conceding that a coffee table book should be full of pictures, WHAT those pictures represent is still a bunch of stuff that had little to nothing to do with the bulk of the new season, what was on screen, or what most people really give a crap about MST3K. They're still a record of where Joel spent a lot of his money and time and energy. I missed this, so I’m a few months late in responding. The term “coffee table book” has a certain connotation. If Joel had said “We’ll provide an in-depth book about MST3K,” that’s one thing. But let’s look at the first paragraph of the Wikipedia entry on Coffee table books. “A coffee table book is an oversized, usually hard-covered book whose purpose is for display on a table intended for use in an area in which one entertains guests and from which it can serve to inspire conversation or pass the time. Subject matter is predominantly non-fiction and pictorial (a photo-book). Pages consist mainly of photographs and illustrations, accompanied by captions and small blocks of text, as opposed to long prose. Since they are aimed at anyone who might pick up the book for a light read, the analysis inside is often more basic and with less jargon than other books on the subject. Because of this, the term "coffee table book" can be used pejoratively to indicate a superficial approach to the subject.Joel delivered exactly what was promised. He did it embarrassingly late, but it’s not like he promised an encyclopedia and delivered a chapbook.
|
|
|
Post by Megalon on Jan 7, 2020 1:16:52 GMT -5
Look, I don't disagree with your point, and I'll even give you your heelarious delivery of it. But, I have to completely disagree. Who said a coffee table book HAS to be a 'photo heavy medium'. In fact, I believe many books, even 'coffee table' books contain words too. Lots of em. I actually think books with words came before any with pictures. Anyway, the Colossal episode guide has almost NO pictures and would be just fine as a coffee table book. You want pictures? Throw the movie poster and a few scenes from the movie in on each page along with the thoughts and behind the scenes for each movie. And there's also NO reason why some of the book couldn't be about the writing process, with words AND pictures of behind the scenes of the writing group, the writing room, etc. And even saying ALL of that, even conceding that a coffee table book should be full of pictures, WHAT those pictures represent is still a bunch of stuff that had little to nothing to do with the bulk of the new season, what was on screen, or what most people really give a crap about MST3K. They're still a record of where Joel spent a lot of his money and time and energy. I missed this, so I’m a few months late in responding. The term “coffee table book” has a certain connotation. If Joel had said “We’ll provide an in-depth book about MST3K,” that’s one thing. But let’s look at the first paragraph of the Wikipedia entry on Coffee table books. “A coffee table book is an oversized, usually hard-covered book whose purpose is for display on a table intended for use in an area in which one entertains guests and from which it can serve to inspire conversation or pass the time. Subject matter is predominantly non-fiction and pictorial (a photo-book). Pages consist mainly of photographs and illustrations, accompanied by captions and small blocks of text, as opposed to long prose. Since they are aimed at anyone who might pick up the book for a light read, the analysis inside is often more basic and with less jargon than other books on the subject. Because of this, the term "coffee table book" can be used pejoratively to indicate a superficial approach to the subject.Joel delivered exactly what was promised. He did it embarrassingly late, but it’s not like he promised an encyclopedia and delivered a chapbook. I don't think BoB3K's expectations are unreasonable. I'm pretty sure a behind-the-scenes coffee table book about the Simpsons, SNL, or even classic MST3k would have included at least a few photos of the writers' room. And I agree with his suggestion that the lack of such photos is telling.
|
|
|
Post by majorjoe23 on Jan 7, 2020 7:44:22 GMT -5
It’s not an unreasonable request, but I’ll go back to my earlier statement that a few people sitting around a meeting table with laptops isn’t exactly a thrilling visual. But I haven’t seen the book, so I’m not sure how that would stack up to what is presented.
|
|