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Post by crowreviews on Jan 6, 2020 21:25:42 GMT -5
So, with it confirmed that there will be no season 13 on Netflix, what's everyone's thoughts on the reboot in general? Personally, I thought it was pretty good. I know some didn't like how "slick" it looked. But I think the redesigned Satellite of love looked nice. If not, a bit simplistic. The riffing quality itself was consistently funny and witty. The characters were more or less the same as the original. Max is basically frank, Kinga is basically pearl, and Jonah is basically Joel, giving advice and is very intelligent. His relationship with the bots however, is pretty much that of Mike's. With, (from what I've seen) him getting mocked by the Bots for his ideas/opinions. But as a whole I liked both season 11 and 12, did they have there flaws? Yes, I really don't like that the whole thing was funded threw a kickstarter campaign. I mean, 5.7 mill just to make a single 14 episode season? I'm not certain, but does one season really need almost 6 million dollars? Not only that but doesn't Netflix give there original's money to make there show with in the first place? It seems odd to me. But anyways, I hereby open the floor to discussion! What were your thoughts on the entire reboot?
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Post by Megalon on Jan 7, 2020 0:10:00 GMT -5
It was good. It deserved another season, and on another platform it probably would have gotten one. I think it's only Netflix's draconian cancelation policy that prevented us from seeing a season 13. They were going to cancel the show after two seasons no matter what, because that's what their algorithm has told them is the optimal thing to do (to make money). Sad that the show was done in once again by cold-hearted TV executives.
I know some people want to assign some of the blame to Joel, but for now I think Netflix deserves most of the ill will. Until we know more, they look like the most likely villains in this story.
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Post by floatinginspace82 on Jan 7, 2020 11:48:04 GMT -5
So for me it was like this, I felt like there was a bit too much polish on the show, and to an extent too many cooks as well, that not withstanding I enjoyed probably 5 or 6 of the episodes out of the 14, but it was mostly about the movie and not the riffing if that makes sense. I grew up with the original I think I was like 9 when I first saw 212 Godzilla Vs Megalon and ever since then I was hooked. The new season wasn't bad but for me it wasn't what I was expecting, I could go on but the tl;dr for me is that it was ok for what it was but nothing groundbreaking.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Jan 7, 2020 12:13:43 GMT -5
It was ok. That might be a shock coming from me. But I genuinely like a few episodes in Season 11. Some are merely ok. And a few are dreadful. The less said about Season 12, the better.
But AVERAGED OUT...it was ok.
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Post by sotrain515 on Jan 7, 2020 15:08:38 GMT -5
I'm giving it a "didn't like it".
I've gone on at some length around here about my gripes with the show. If I had to boil my beefs down to a single word it would be ...timing.
Timing is everything with comedy. This reboot triple-tapped itself in the foot in my opinion. Recording the comedians separate from each other, recording them separate from the movie and finally (fatally) leaving it to the editors to drop in the punchlines for the finished product... I feel like I don't even know what Jonah, Baron and Hampton can really do as these characters because their performances were kneecapped from the start.
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Post by jadenh on Jan 7, 2020 21:00:17 GMT -5
Season 12 was mostly garbage, but season 11 was pretty decent. I just feel like the new cast didn't have enough time to get to know each other and be as funny as they could be.
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Post by BoB3K on Jan 8, 2020 11:31:18 GMT -5
You would think more would always be better but...
If there had only been a season 11, I probably would have voted [It was good]. I have the same critical opinions as many on the budget and writing and shooting, but overall it had the classic MST3K feel, had mostly good casting choices, had mostly good movie choices, and was generally fun to watch.
But, then came season 12, which I didn't even watch most of because the show had been compromised from premise to format. The minute Joel was off our Kickstarter money he sold out to a company that made demands to format, premise, movie choices, and then ended up funding him for a grand total of 6 episodes, and then backing out and leaving. And then there's the live shows that Joel is apparently obsessed with. I have no problem with a live show, but who knows what could have been done to keep the actual produced show up and going with all the time and energy that went into those 2 live show tours.
So with that, my overall opinion falls to [It was ok].
I really think in the end, the shortened weird Season 12 may have hurt more than helped. Obviously we'll never know the exact details of the process, but I think what they needed was to just put out a normal Season 12 of let's say 8-12 eps, without any fundamental changes from to 11.
Of course, it's probably all moot, as the real problem was the budget and how Joel spent it. That initial kickstarter should have fully funded season 11. Joel should have made money from selling season 11 bluray and streaming, and then used that to fund a season 12.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Jan 8, 2020 13:30:40 GMT -5
Well, lookie there. We appear to be at a stalemate, essentially. Pretty even split. Reinforcing my point that if averaged out among all opinions, most people would say overall it was "okay".
Which proves what a disaster Season 12 really is. Remove that and I'd say it was good.
And Bob is right. The whole thing was neutered from the start by a complete mismanagement of budget. I know everyone hates him, but Jim Mallon would have been instrumental in keeping this new show on track financially. You wouldn't have gotten any cameos for season 11, but I feel like in the end it would have made for a longer-lasting product that made money.
I think the biggest issue was Joel promising more episodes for more money to begin with.
At a certain point past a certain amount of money they made on the Kickstarter, they should have just put that extra money towards making the 12 episodes better. Or hell, PAYING FOR THEM 100%. Because it's my understanding the kickstarter funding money was factoring in licensing amounts that a distributor would pay to fully fund the episodes, so they weren't actually asking for how much it would take to make an actual episode.
And then of course Joel went completely overboard with concept designers and prop builders and wood carvings and all sorts of extraneous nonsense stuff that cost way too much money and didn't translate into the show at all.
With the extra fundraising they had to do for Season 11 AND for season 12, it makes me wonder if they've even broke even on the costs of Mallon's buyout and the production of both seasons.
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Post by mylungswereaching on Jan 8, 2020 13:54:58 GMT -5
I'm kind of between good and Okay. The show provided enough laughs to go into the good category for me.
The good thing about shows now is that they aren't locked into a regular schedule. There is nothing to prevent Joel from learning from his mistakes and rebooting it again a year or two from now. MST3k doesn't have to be a big budget show. It can be produced on a much smaller budget. That mean's it doesn't have to go to a big pocket company like Netflix. The problem with big pocket companies is that they require big ratings. MST3k just didn't get enough viewers to make it worthwhile for a big company like Netflix to keep showing it.
Trim the show down. Don't go for all the bells and whistles and big name stars and start showing it on a cheaper, smaller network.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Jan 8, 2020 14:30:17 GMT -5
MST3k doesn't have to be a big budget show. It can be produced on a much smaller budget. Trim the show down. Don't go for all the bells and whistles and big name stars and start showing it on a cheaper, smaller network. The problem is, you realize and understand this and I realize and understand this...but does JOEL realize and understand this? The fact MST was made for a decade+ on a tiny budget wasn't enough to keep Joel frugal the first time. I'm not sure this experience will change his mind. Besides, Joel is an artiste. He isn't satisfied with what works and what's safe. He wants to innovate and change stuff, or he gets bored and moves on. For better or worse.
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Post by Megalon on Jan 8, 2020 14:58:11 GMT -5
MST3k doesn't have to be a big budget show. It can be produced on a much smaller budget. Trim the show down. Don't go for all the bells and whistles and big name stars and start showing it on a cheaper, smaller network. The problem is, you realize and understand this and I realize and understand this...but does JOEL realize and understand this? Joel might have learned as little as George Lucas learned after The Phantom Menace. Lots of parallels there. Sometimes the worst thing that can happen to an artist is getting everything they want.
In any case, I think the real story here is that only 17 people have voted in the poll so far. At the end of the day, there just aren't that many people watching the new MST3k. In which case, it really doesn't matter how good (or bad) it was. It was always going to get cancelled.
Edit: Oh, and I'm not trying to suggest that the show failed due to lack of promotion. It got tons of promotion. It also appeared on one of the largest platforms on Earth, all of which suggests that it failed solely on its own merits or lack thereof. So even though I voted "It was good," I'm willing to admit that maybe, in this case, I just have bad taste.
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Post by BoB3K on Jan 8, 2020 16:09:13 GMT -5
Not bad. eclectic, niche? MST3K is one of the most awesome concepts ever in entertainment, but it also has a limited appeal. I mean, the basis for the show is that you're watching entertainment that was originally deemed 'bad' by the general public. No amount of jokes or skits are going to change the fact that a large part of the experience is sitting through a 'bad' movie. I personally love MST3K, but even I don't really like the 'bad' eps that a lot of people seem to like (like Manos). I like the cheesy and old dated eps. If you stop and think about it, one kind of obvious idea to the whole thing is that your production around the 'bad','cheesy' movie really shouldn't be a bigger production and bigger budget than the original itself. I think either by design or by necessity, that's where the original MST3K really nailed it. The skit in the middle of a Gamera should just be Joel and the bots doing a fake toy commercial using preexisting old toys and a single-take. Or giving a middle-school level 'report' on what's inside gamera, again, in a single-take. RiffTrax has survived for years putting out $10 commentaries. If Joel would have kept the production small, I don't see why Shout! couldn't have just put out $15 MST3K eps, maybe 10 to 12 a year.
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Post by hike'em'up on Jan 10, 2020 19:31:15 GMT -5
I didnt like it.
Never even made it through the Season 11 list, stalling out after Starcrash, which was terribly disappointing itself. Felt that was an appropriate place to bury this latest reanimation. It just didn't work, it never came together. The things that grated in the first couple episodes - outlined several times over by various people on this site - persisted, even became more noticeable, irritating.
Not only that, but - yes - all the hindsight criticisms on how that kickstarter money could have been more wisely directed and spent only makes it that much worse. The suggestions that have been offered here are so much better than what they chose to do. Joel blew it, plain and simple. And that's the worst part to accept as an unrepentant Joel worshipper.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Jan 10, 2020 20:00:26 GMT -5
Joel blew it, plain and simple. And that's the worst part to accept as an unrepentant Joel worshipper. I admit to being strongly "Pro-Joel" as far as the OG episodes. Still am. I like Mike, don't get me wrong, but I really like the characteristics of the Joel episodes. The feel of the riffs. The tone. It felt very genuine. Very innocent. A kids show gone askew, kind of thing. But this reboot...man, it really made me rethink why I liked those episodes. Joel may have been a part of it, but whatever he brought back then, it didn't translate now.
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Post by hike'em'up on Jan 10, 2020 21:45:55 GMT -5
Joel blew it, plain and simple. And that's the worst part to accept as an unrepentant Joel worshipper. ... I really like the characteristics of the Joel episodes. The feel of the riffs. The tone. It felt very genuine. Very innocent. A kids show gone askew, kind of thing. But this reboot...man, it really made me rethink why I liked those episodes. Joel may have been a part of it, but whatever he brought back then, it didn't translate now. You've absolutely nailed it on the Joel episode aesthetic. I can appreciate the work that actually went in to producing it, but it came off in the finished product as simple, completely accessible, and endearing as hell. It seemed to follow Joel's almost sleepy, 'who cares?' style of delivery that he brought to his previous stand-up act. The rest of the cast was superb in taking that lead. Nobody really over-did anything, never over-acted a segment, and no one ever came off as taking themselves seriously. They let their collective, sharp wit do most of the heavy-lifting - which worked. And yeah it was child-like and innocent, as most any puppet show is, but at the same time was also so reliably funny that you accepted it as a whole.
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