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Post by kooky on Jan 31, 2021 4:31:30 GMT -5
Ok so this is tricky, because I would not know what actually went down behind closed doors. So I don't know every detail and maybe I'm mistaken.
That being said:
There was a very potent air of discomfort among the rest of the original MST3K writers and performers when the reboot was materializing back in 2015. Trace and Frank were both really vocally negative about it on Twitter, and Frank directly said that Joel wasn't interested in being apart of their venture or having them be involved in the reboot. I think Frank actually wanted to reprise his role and had to find out that Patton was playing a character based on him from the news (as opposed to being approached or told about it).
The Rifftrax camp were cordial and wished Joel the best on the project, but both Mike and Bill Corbett made posts that sort of beat around the bush on the general vibe that they did not feel fully compensated for their role in the creation and maintenance of MST3K. Mike Nelson in particular wrote that in all of his years there, he was really just a "hired hand." Bill Corbett went on a long rant about the fact that Jim and Joel got all the royalties in the dark 2000s when the show was off the air and the rest of the cast got none.
Does anyone else remember all this? It was very piece meal - a tweet or Facebook post here and there, but there was some serious snark coming from non-Joel MST3K alumni about the project.
But the biggest piece of evidence I have for what I said is Ken Plume's podcast, "A Bit of a Chat." Plume had Josh Weinstein on - who truly doesn't give a f*** - and Plume told Josh that he didn't like the way Joel had gone about promising that original cast members would be involved, and then essentially lying and not extending a full opportunity for them to be significantly involved. Josh was very professional and gracious about Joel without dragging him, but he was also honest about the situation. He said that the original cast/writers were offered money to write jokes, just like every other writer.
So without knowing all the details, it seems clear that Joel basically offered the rest of the original writer/performers the opportunity to send in jokes or be at home writers. I don't know why he did this, but I think it's because he felt like it's his show and he didn't want it stolen from him again like he felt like it was in the early 90s. But this last sentence is speculation. The discord among the original cast was real.
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Post by BoB3K on Feb 2, 2021 0:59:30 GMT -5
Couple thoughts / points --
Pretty much none of the original cast were asked to be in the reboot at the outset. Some didn't care, like Mike; some were a little more vocal, like Frank.
In the end, almost everyone was asked and did participate through cameos. I think some even have writing credits on the show.
Bottom line though, the RiffTrax guys like what they're doing and would never have agreed to drop that and come back. Bill and Kevin did come back for cameos, but Mike never has. I can't decide if it's because he is the face of RiffTrax and wants to stay completely separate or if there really is a little bad blood between him and Joel. I do know that Joel (along with Jonah) took part in the MST3K reunion Rifftrax thing, so my guess leans more to the former -- Mike is happy with his RiffTrax creation.
I actually think that 'The Mads' is kind of a response to Frank and Trace being left out of the reboot, so all things considered (I also like The Mads a lot), it might be a good thing.
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Post by Troy's Dad on Feb 2, 2021 11:09:58 GMT -5
I wanted to add that Mike was the only former cast member who declined to sign autograph cards for the MST3K official trading card series. I am not sure if there was compensation for their time, but every cast member (including some behind the scenes folks) signed cards and the creator of the cards hinted that Mike would not budge and would not take any part in the autograph cards. He seems to want nothing to do with MST3K.
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Post by Udvarnoky on Feb 2, 2021 11:25:47 GMT -5
I sense no antipathy from Mike toward MST3K or Joel. I think he's made his position clear: His relationship with that show was as an employee rather than a stakeholder, and he'd simply prefer to devote his energies toward projects he has participation in. The success of the MST3K brand enriches Shout! and Joel, so of course it's subordinate in Mike's priorities to projects where he has skin in the game.
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Post by BoB3K on Feb 2, 2021 12:14:01 GMT -5
I wanted to add that Mike was the only former cast member who declined to sign autograph cards for the MST3K official trading card series. Interesting, I didn't know that. Well, that cements it for me. Mike is disappointed that he never became more than just a Best Brains employee, (I mean jeesh, I don't blame him. He was the 'head writer' for most of the run and the main host for just about half) and so he is very nicely, professionally saying, 'sorry, you never made me an official part of your thing, and now I've got my own thing' to them whenever the chance arises.
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Post by kooky on Feb 2, 2021 18:53:38 GMT -5
I wanted to add that Mike was the only former cast member who declined to sign autograph cards for the MST3K official trading card series. Interesting, I didn't know that. Well, that cements it for me. Mike is disappointed that he never became more than just a Best Brains employee, (I mean jeesh, I don't blame him. He was the 'head writer' for most of the run and the main host for just about half) and so he is very nicely, professionally saying, 'sorry, you never made me an official part of your thing, and now I've got my own thing' to them whenever the chance arises. Does anyone have any inside information on the relationship between Joel & Mike? They really stay out of each other's orbit more than most MST3K alumni do, and I noticed that they never followed each other on Twitter (Mike's off Twitter now, but Joel & Bridget still don't follow each other which to me seems significant). I'm not trying to make something out of nothing but there really seems to be a consistently bad vibe and distance between them.
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Post by majorjoe23 on Feb 3, 2021 8:47:34 GMT -5
I wanted to add that Mike was the only former cast member who declined to sign autograph cards for the MST3K official trading card series. I am not sure if there was compensation for their time, but every cast member (including some behind the scenes folks) signed cards and the creator of the cards hinted that Mike would not budge and would not take any part in the autograph cards. He seems to want nothing to do with MST3K. I know they were paid something for signing, but everything I saw from Richard Parks is that he just got no response from Mike and Bridget. I assume he either had an email, or Kevin or Bill were asked if they would pass it along or mention it to them. He does do new intros for MST3K episodes sold on RiffTrax (or has done, do they still record intros when new episodes are added?) The fact that he allows MST3K to be sold by his company, and the fact that the website says “Rifftrax = The MST3K ‘Mystery Science Theater 3000’ stars today!” makes me think he’s not opposed to having something to do with the brand.
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Post by BoB3K on Feb 3, 2021 12:44:11 GMT -5
The fact that he allows MST3K to be sold by his company, and the fact that the website says “Rifftrax = The MST3K ‘Mystery Science Theater 3000’ stars today!” makes me think he’s not opposed to having something to do with the brand. I remember reading, probably from Bill, back when that first started, that they--Mike, Kevin, and Bill--were finally getting a little kickback from MST3K, getting some profit from the eps sold through RiffTrax. So, I would maybe amend your comment to -- "he’s not opposed to making a little money off the brand." Obviously, he's going to continue to mention it, even today after all these years of RiffTrax, it's still a solid part of his professional resume.
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Post by vgaddict on Feb 5, 2021 10:13:52 GMT -5
What if the original MST3K was lightning in a bottle, and the revival was NEVER going to be as good?
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Post by BoB3K on Feb 5, 2021 12:42:51 GMT -5
What if the original MST3K was lightning in a bottle, and the revival was NEVER going to be as good? I think that is already a common sentiment around here. I think the real question was, could it be comparably good, could it have that same feel. I know in my opinion, the big issue is that you need the same ingredients. Joel thought he was doing that with the format and sets and characters. But, a lot of us here agree that he actually failed in the most important part -- the writers room -- not just what writers were in it, but that there is actually a real physical room that the 5-8 writers/performers get together in each week and watch and riff a movie, write it up into a script, throw together some quick skits to fit in, and then go shoot it. I'd also throw in that it be away from 'Hollywood' and that the writers are also the performers. I think the key is the that the group is a group--they don't all have to be best buds, but they should be a group that enjoy writing and performing together. It's how many successful comedy acts work -- Monty Python, Kids in the Hall, MST3K. Honestly, considering how Joel ran the Revival's production, I think Season 11 came out pretty well, probably about as good as could be hoped for. The original MST3K was definitely lightening in a bottle, but the formula itself is solid and there to make more fun and funny incarnations of movie riffing projects. I guess another way to say it is, we can't really answer your question until someone tries a new riffing project that does have all the ingredients.
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Post by Megalon on Feb 11, 2021 16:47:12 GMT -5
I was shocked to see people discussing the Kickstarter in this thread as if it were a part of history -- which I guess it is now. 2015? Has it really been 6 years? It seems like just yesterday we were all donating our money and eagerly awaiting the latest news about the coming reboot. Time sure does fly.
I'm still sad that the reboot was cancelled. Say what you will about the show's quality, it didn't deserve the treatment it got from Netflix.
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Post by Megalon on Feb 12, 2021 12:52:04 GMT -5
Oh, and for those who think Mike, Kevin, and Bill should have dropped everything and rejoined the USS MST3k, consider this:
RiffTrax is still around and supporting its creators. MST3k is not.
I'd say they made the right choice.
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Post by Troy's Dad on Feb 23, 2021 15:26:08 GMT -5
I was shocked to see people discussing the Kickstarter in this thread as if it were a part of history -- which I guess it is now. 2015? Has it really been 6 years? It seems like just yesterday we were all donating our money and eagerly awaiting the latest news about the coming reboot. Time sure does fly. I'm still sad that the reboot was cancelled. Say what you will about the show's quality, it didn't deserve the treatment it got from Netflix. I'm sad that despite it being less than 3 years since Season 12, Jonah is old news and now revival efforts are centered around Emily being the new host. I really think if the series is to return someday, Jonah needs to return. 20 experiments are not enough, the guy deserves some more time in the role.
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Post by BoB3K on Feb 23, 2021 18:02:52 GMT -5
I really think if the series is to return someday, Jonah needs to return. 20 experiments are not enough, the guy deserves some more time in the role. I understand this sentiment, but I don't agree. Seasons 11/12 were liked in various degrees by various fans, but now it's over and done without ever really gaining any traction. The last thing we need is to add yet another reunion/comeback wish to the list. My sentiment is if Joel ever tries again, he damn well better learn some lessons and start over completely and be small and agile and in person and full time. I don't know anything about this Emily since I've had nothing to do with the live shows, but if she's a comic and a performer and is willing to sit in a building with other comic performers and write and shoot a new version of MST3K together, then great. Or for that matter, if Jonah was willing to do that, even better. Anything else though is a big who cares.
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Post by cavedweller on Apr 18, 2021 9:51:09 GMT -5
Now that the Netflix revival has been canceled, what is your opinion on the Jonah era of MST3K? What were your favorite episodes? What did you like about the show? Was it a worthy followup to the show we all love? I don't think it was a worthy follow up. I have the dvd sets because I am a bit of a completist. Jonah doesn't have the personality to pull it off like Joel or Mike. Jonah looked uncomfortable doing the skits. The writing was subpar and I didn't have many chuckles. I think Avalanche is my favorite episode. I don't watch any of the skits, and just fast forward to the riffing. I can do without the rest.
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