Post by monkeypretzel on Dec 19, 2021 17:52:14 GMT -5
Lesley commented about it. There was more than one tweet about it from various writers. There were complaints about it in one of the livestreams, IIRC. And Matt wrote this in one of the extended updates about movie rights:
"While it’s true that some historical MST3K edits have removed large chunks of plot — to the consternation of some MSTies — the show just works better when it’s kept tight and agile. In season 13, you’ll see us riff the uncut Gamera vs. Jiger, which we agreed to as a condition of getting the rights for it. And you might not think those extra fourteen minutes would make a huge difference in how the riff feels, but when you’re writing it – or watching it – those fourteen extra minutes can feel like a hundred years, especially when most of it is people in rubber suits throwing each other around."
So you can call it hyperbole. But it was definitely a sore spot for the writers who wrote on that episode, and they let us know it.
This quote makes it clear that the "fourteen extra minutes" is what they had to do over their ideal/average movie length. So we have our answer: in all likelihood, the movie run times for Season 13 will be 70 minutes or shorter, with the exception of Gamera vs. Jiger at 83 minutes.
"While it’s true that some historical MST3K edits have removed large chunks of plot — to the consternation of some MSTies — the show just works better when it’s kept tight and agile."
Really? I think the show works best when it's, y'know, making funny comments over a movie. If you cut the movie down so bad to where it doesn't even feel like a movie anymore, it kinda ruins the point of the show doesn't it? Yes, the movies featured on the show are "bad". No duh. However, I don't see any reason to cut it down unless it's for a content reason. If it can be made funny, then leave it in. And then the more the film is cut down, the less comprehenisble it is. And in this case, the lack of coherency isn't due to the filmmakers but the show itself. And that's bad. Even if the movies are shorter, the episodes are far less enjoyable.
Post by monkeypretzel on Dec 19, 2021 22:21:35 GMT -5
It was hard to write for the endless driving scenes in Manos - but imagine that episode without those riffs, especially Tom's epic monologue at the end.
There was no point to keeping the "Idiot Control Now" song in Pod People, it didn't advance the plot or have any bearing on the rest of the movie - but imagine no "Idiot Control Now" host segment. Imagine no "It Stinks!" Imagine no subplot in Season 12.
A more recent example is the inter-scene slides in A Talking Cat?!? and Santa's Summer House for RiffTrax. These are just screensavers inserted as scene breaks. They serve no purpose, they aren't necessary. And yet...there are some funny riffs over each and every one of those pointless, purposeless, needless breaks that make the overall movie riff a lot better. No one would have missed them if they were cut because it was easier NOT to have to write jokes for them.
Sometimes you leave in the pointless, the boring, the unnecessary, because those moments of nothing can add up to a LOT of something to the general feel of the movie, the reason why it was selected to riff in the first place.
Post by sol-survivor on Dec 20, 2021 3:21:56 GMT -5
It's interesting about the run times. When I was slogging through the Season 11 episodes that I did watch my reaction to the length of every episode was essentially "Isn't this thing almost done yet?" I swear when I was watching Carnival Magic, aka The Last Revival Episode I Finished, it felt about six hours long, and it wasn't fun. When I watch something long, and some of my favorite movies are well over 2 hours long, if it's enjoyable to me it just seems to zip by no matter how many times I watch it. Watching something I'm not enjoying just becomes an ordeal. Back in the 80s I used to go to play Bingo once a week with some friends and relatives. That's another thing I enjoyed doing, but after an extremely long dry spell where I wasn't winning anything and all I could hear around me was people complaining about this, that, and every little thing it got to be too much of an ordeal for me to enjoy it any longer. I stopped going and never looked back. There is a parallel there with the revival, for me at least. Something I used to enjoy got all the fun sucked out of it. Too bad.
What's the point of a helmet in skydiving, in case you land on your head?
Every time I meet a man he's either gay or a bear.
It's interesting about the run times. When I was slogging through the Season 11 episodes that I did watch my reaction to the length of every episode was essentially "Isn't this thing almost done yet?" I swear when I was watching Carnival Magic, aka The Last Revival Episode I Finished, it felt about six hours long, and it wasn't fun.
It goes back to what I was saying in my post about revisiting the Netflix era. In that back-half of Season 11, their riffing slows down to a near-normal pace, but the episodes also get really hard to watch. This lead me to a few conclusions:
A. The callous and rather ham-fisted cutting up of the movies to not exceed some arbitrary time constraint really impedes the viewer's ability to connect and care about watching the movie.
B. The rapid-fire riffing from the beginning of Season 11 carries a lot of water for the watchability of the show in its current format and can even make up for the movies being so heavily cut up. It doesn't matter what's being watched because the riffing is constantly hilarious, or at least drowning out the movie to the point where it doesn't really matter.
C. Without the rapid-fire, the viewer's attention can return more towards watching the movie instead of focusing solely on the riffers. However, since the viewer can't easily connect to the movie due to its compromised nature, the viewing experience becomes a rather tedious exercise.
You're not watching a movie, you're watching random film clips without a coherent through-plot and waiting for the riffers to say something funny, rather than watching a movie and having the riffers say funny things as you watch in tandem with them. This became a much worse problem in Season 12.
They need to strike a balance. Leave enough of the movie to be coherent and followable, and retain a decent pace of riffing.
Most of the movies they selected are in the 80-90 minute range for Season 13, so I'm hopeful that even if they do an arbitrary 70 minute cutoff, the movies themselves won't have to be edited down as much as, say, Killer Fish, which was missing 45+ minutes of movie.