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Post by Afgncaap5 on Jun 17, 2020 14:00:34 GMT -5
Official post on the Rifftrax thread here. So, I learned about his involvement with this podcast, late last night at about 3 AM my time (I stay up waaaay too late at night). He posted this response via the Rifftrax Twitter account about an hour and forty-five minutes ago, so this was a rapid turnaround for me. I'll keep commentary on the podcast in question as something for Observer's Brain, though I *am* glad that he was willing to take action when he saw that there was potential for people to be hurt by inaction. Also, I guess the podcast featured Ethan Nicolle, one of the two brothers who created Axe Cop?
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Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
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Post by Torgo on Jun 17, 2020 14:18:14 GMT -5
I haven't listened to the podcast because it's not my cup of tea, nor is it something I'd agree with personally, so I have no incentive to listen to it. Most of the outrage didn't seem to be about Mike's opinions stated but rather the opinions of others he was with (mostly on episodes he wasn't even on, according to the blog post that sparked everything). I understand the "bad company" aspect of the backlash, but to me it always seemed like Mike did very little to deserve some of this. It felt more like "You're friends with this guy? You must be an asshole too."
Dunno. I wanted to hear something out of Mike's mouth before I made any sort of judgment either way. I think he made the right decision, personally. While there is that lingering issue of why he wanted to talk politics with these specific people that are creating the stir, that's part of his private life and I don't think we have any right to hound him about it.
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Jun 17, 2020 14:26:56 GMT -5
I got kinda the same sense? Like, pretty much everything I heard was that the main founder of the show (not Ethan, the other one) had a lot of problematic opinions and said some things that were inflammatory (this all being secondhand, haven't gone out to look for the exact statements myself). For all I know, this was just a side project Mike was doing with some friends (I know that Ethan Nicolle has contributed to some things for... I forget if it was Rifftrax or the new MSTie stuff, but it was at least one of them). I'm not close enough to the issues or the podcast to know if Mike ever said anything wrong here, but so far it doesn't look like it.
On *that* note, it can't be easy to step away from a podcast like this, because, if it's just an activity a friend or associate was doing, you've then gotta take the official stance to be not involved with that project, and with that person/people by proxy (at least in terms of that project). That's a rough choice for any celebrity.
All things considered, I think he made the right choice, and I applaud him for it. But I also don't know all the details.
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Post by TV's Cowboy on Jun 17, 2020 16:45:30 GMT -5
Doug TenNapel(the other other podcast guy) isn't taking the news of Mike leaving the podcast well. Not like Doug's opinion on things matter though.
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Post by kidflash on Jun 17, 2020 17:52:29 GMT -5
Doug TenNapel(the other other podcast guy) isn't taking the news of Mike leaving the podcast well. Not like Doug's opinions on things matters though. He has a long, long, looooong history of having terrible opinions and being, uh, less than contrite about it when challenged. (Defiantly homophobic and transphobic with zero self-awareness if we're being blunt.) That's where the disconnect comes from. LGBTQ+ fans are rightfully up in arms about Mike working with this guy. It seems that Bill had no idea about the offending episodes of the podcast, and was understandably crestfallen when alerted to it on Twitter.
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Post by mylungswereaching on Jun 18, 2020 13:31:09 GMT -5
I think its certainly possible that Bill didn't know. Most people don't know everything about people they casually know. It's possible that Mike either didn't know or didn't know that the situation was that bad.
A business person like Mike knows lots of people. You hear rumors about people. Unless you know them well or you spend the time and money to investigate everyone you come into contact with stuff like this will happen. The question to me is how well Mike knew this guy and how much did he know.
Mike's a conservative but I've never heard anything about him that says that he's one of those far right wacko conservatives. If he says that he didn't know just how extreme the guy was I would tend to believe him unless there is evidence to the contrary.
Being a middle of the road conservative isn't the same as being a far right homophobic and transphobic jerk. I hadn't heard about this issue before but if these guy's are anywhere near as toxic as I've heard here, Mike's doing the right thing getting as far away as possible from them as possible.
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Jun 20, 2020 16:28:07 GMT -5
Mike's a conservative but I've never heard anything about him that says that he's one of those far right wacko conservatives. If he says that he didn't know just how extreme the guy was I would tend to believe him unless there is evidence to the contrary. Totally. I used to consider myself a conservative, and Mike was always one of the people that reminded me of why. I don't really consider myself conservative now (largely because while my opinions on political issues haven't changed, a lot of mainstream conservative focus seems to have shifted under my feet, so I guess I'm liberal now?) but I never felt like I should hold it against Mike for sticking to the label. Yeah. Like, even in a different scenario, I think the issue that people were being hurt by his involvement would have been enough for Mike to step away. Honestly, he might've already been trying to quietly distance himself from the show since his statement indicates he hadn't been on in a while, but the situation kinda demanded that he do something visible and official about it. And that really is such an important thing, being willing to openly and publicly change something. It's far too easy to say "Yes, that's a problem I don't agree with, so I'll just quietly not contribute to it", not realizing that that still gives the thing a sort of quiet seal of approval from you. Publicly distancing himself can't have been comfortable, but Mike needed to do it, so I'm happy he did.
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Post by TheNewMads on Jun 25, 2020 14:03:30 GMT -5
The political dynamics of the MST3k team have always been interesting to me. Frank, I know, is a very fervent activist progressive but in a bernie-green party type mode. (He does frequent guest gigs on The Jimmy Dore Show, or at least he did.) I met Trace Beaulieu back in 2003 just at a convention and he was very upset about Bush, definitely struck me as a Blue No Matter Who voter, but I don't know for sure. Joel's obviously a media performance artist along with everything else, I get a sense he's either Blue No Matter Who or activist left (as in, a Nader voter).
I've gotten inklings of Mike's politics, I know he was very upset about 9/11 and that he's a Christian, etc., but I think he's a super-compassionate guy and his politics are almost entirely vectored through his religious convictions.
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Post by mylungswereaching on Jun 25, 2020 19:51:43 GMT -5
The political dynamics of the MST3k team have always been interesting to me. Frank, I know, is a very fervent activist progressive but in a bernie-green party type mode. (He does frequent guest gigs on The Jimmy Dore Show, or at least he did.) I met Trace Beaulieu back in 2003 just at a convention and he was very upset about Bush, definitely struck me as a Blue No Matter Who voter, but I don't know for sure. Joel's obviously a media performance artist along with everything else, I get a sense he's either Blue No Matter Who or activist left (as in, a Nader voter). I've gotten inklings of Mike's politics, I know he was very upset about 9/11 and that he's a Christian, etc., but I think he's a super-compassionate guy and his politics are almost entirely vectored through his religious convictions. I'm pretty liberal in a lot of ways but I like the old school fiscal conservatives. It's really good to have someone watch government spending and complain about wasting money. The problem is that the old school fiscal conservatives are now considered RINO's in today's Republican Party so they tend to be independents or Democrats. It's far Right Wingers that I can't stand rather than conservatives. Mike seems to be a more old school conservative rather than the right wingers who see conspiracy in everything. When I was a kid someone who said that the U.S. Government had secret bases on Mars to turn people gay they would have been considered a lunatic. Now they are main stream Republicans. I think that's why Kevin, Mike and Bill can get along. None of them seems to be too far to the extreme (by world standards.)
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Post by TheNewMads on Jun 26, 2020 5:49:30 GMT -5
I'm actually happy with seeing conspiracies everywhere, but like everything, the idea that only right wingers see conspiracies everywhere is a conspiracy.
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Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 16, 2020 3:02:50 GMT -5
I'm actually happy with seeing conspiracies everywhere, but like everything, the idea that only right wingers see conspiracies everywhere is a conspiracy. Here here! Something about conspiracies is that some of them are actually true. And the world will be in the light soon enough. All evils revealed. I'm in Arkansas and I can tell you, we've had a front row seat to the Clintons; the land of Clinton where the shadows lie, and I hate hate hate them and all their minions and orcs, with a passion. A passion that is alike to Beatrix Kiddo. Kill Bill & Co. Of course I also hate the clowns on the right too. Chock it up to me just hating everyone and that I've learned to stop worrying and love the bomb.
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Post by TheNewMads on Jul 16, 2020 6:03:14 GMT -5
I'm actually happy with seeing conspiracies everywhere, but like everything, the idea that only right wingers see conspiracies everywhere is a conspiracy. Here here! Something about conspiracies is that some of them are actually true. And the world will be in the light soon enough. All evils revealed. I'm in Arkansas and I can tell you, we've had a front row seat to the Clintons; the land of Clinton where the shadows lie, and I hate hate hate them and all their minions and orcs, with a passion. A passion that is alike to Beatrix Kiddo. Kill Bill & Co. Of course I also hate the clowns on the right too. Chock it up to me just hating everyone and that I've learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. That Tom Cruise movie American Made referenced the whole Mena Arkansas thing with the Clintons. That's an idea that seems to have hit the mainstream. (I've also always wanted to see someone have a whack at remaking the Coleman Francis oeuvre. He's pretty conspiracy and politically minded and maybe could have been an Oliver Stone type if he hadn't sniffed so much airplane glue when he was younger, or whatever it was that happened to him.) Back to the topic, I think it kinda sucks you can't appear on a podcast without being responsible for everything the podcaster has thought and said. It would have been cool if Mike would have been able to say, I've learned so and so has certain opinions I don't agree with, so I've made arrangements to go on his show and talk to him about it. Has a Best Brains ever been on Joe Rogan? I've always thought Paul Chaplin was the hidden genius in that group, he and Duncan Trussell would have a lost weekend if they ever hung out.
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Post by majorjoe23 on Jul 16, 2020 9:25:23 GMT -5
But it’s not like Mike had just appeared on Doug Tenapel’s podcast. Mike was co-hosting a podcast with him, and these things were being said on that podcast.
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Post by mylungswereaching on Jul 16, 2020 9:44:55 GMT -5
I'm actually happy with seeing conspiracies everywhere, but like everything, the idea that only right wingers see conspiracies everywhere is a conspiracy. Here here! Something about conspiracies is that some of them are actually true. And the world will be in the light soon enough. All evils revealed. I'm in Arkansas and I can tell you, we've had a front row seat to the Clintons; the land of Clinton where the shadows lie, and I hate hate hate them and all their minions and orcs, with a passion. A passion that is alike to Beatrix Kiddo. Kill Bill & Co. Of course I also hate the clowns on the right too. Chock it up to me just hating everyone and that I've learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. A conspiracy involving a small number of people who stand to gain a lot of money, yeah maybe. But a conspiracy that involves millions of people in hundreds of countries that would result in no financial gain for any of them. Not so much. My favorites are the ones like that the CIA has secret bases on Mars where they turn people gay. And people believe this stuff. You are right that conspiracy theories are on both the right and left. But they are almost always on the extremes and the extreme on the right is much, much bigger than the extreme on the left is at this point in history. And no, people who want things that are common in most first world countries and many 2nd and third world countries like universal health care are not on the extreme left. I also don't like the idea of guilt by association. It depends on how obvious it is. If someone appears on the Nazi radio hour, there is a problem. If someone appears on a show and one of the co-hosts has some awful ideas that they talked about 20 years ago and have kept quiet about since, not so much.
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Post by mylungswereaching on Jul 16, 2020 9:51:23 GMT -5
But it’s not like Mike had just appeared on Doug Tenapel’s podcast. Mike was co-hosting a podcast with him, and these things were being said on that podcast. Yeah, that's a problem. Then its a question of how much Mike knew in advance and did he agree or just tolerate him. There is a problem with the idea of purity. Let's say you've got a friend and you like most of his ideas but you really don't like a few of them. You call him out on the ideas that you don't like and he backs down. Do you keep him as a friend? How extreme do the views need to be to drop someone? If you have to have absolute agreement about every issue, how can someone have any friends? Where do you draw the line? It's pretty clear now that Tenapel is pretty toxic. Mike did the right thing by walking away.
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