|
|
Post by continosbuckle on Jul 17, 2020 16:24:54 GMT -5
It boggles my mind when owners of these films start asking too much money. If Shout Factory can't meet their demands, than who will? Are any boutique Blu-ray labels planning a deluxe SOULTAKER or FINAL SACRIFICE release? Nope. Are either of them "cult classics"? Not really. They're best known now as MST3k fodder, which is a great way to give an otherwise worthless property a second life. Asking for too much money to renew is just pointless, because then their income stream for those titles is gone. Unless the owners pay to have their films scanned in HD and then try to sell them to streaming platforms, they're not going to be seen on TV or computer screens ever again. Never underestimate the pull of powertripping and the thrill that comes with it. After all, would any of us be talking about Tjardus Greidanus right now if he hadn't done this? Maybe he wants this more than the money he'd be able to get, after all, since a vast majority of the sales of The Final Sacrifice MST3k DVD has already happened, it can't be a whole lot of money at stake anyway. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 17:07:46 GMT -5
Toho especially is a corporation I wouldn't challenge. But you can challenge them. Fair Use is international and the worst that would happen is that it's blocked in the country where Toho sits. But YT is US based and Toho can go eat a bag of dickweeds. Does it matter in this case that Godzilla versus the Sea Monster was used illegally on the show in the first place? To be honest, I don't get this. What's preventing Shout from uploading (not to make money on) the episodes for which they cannot license the original movies? |
|
|
|
Post by jadenh on Jul 17, 2020 17:48:24 GMT -5
Just have someone from Shout dump the remaining episodes on 4chan or something lol. Or on archive.org or Google Drive, that usually works out fine.
|
|
|
|
Post by Afgncaap5 on Jul 17, 2020 20:45:07 GMT -5
But you can challenge them. Fair Use is international and the worst that would happen is that it's blocked in the country where Toho sits. But YT is US based and Toho can go eat a bag of dickweeds. Does it matter in this case that Godzilla versus the Sea Monster was used illegally on the show in the first place? I... actually had not heard that yet. Huh. Thanks. I believe the distinction is less "they were profiting off of my work" and more "they were robbing me of profits by making my work available for nothing" in that case. |
|
|
|
Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 18, 2020 1:50:13 GMT -5
But you can challenge them. Fair Use is international and the worst that would happen is that it's blocked in the country where Toho sits. But YT is US based and Toho can go eat a bag of dickweeds. Does it matter in this case that Godzilla versus the Sea Monster was used illegally on the show in the first place? To be honest, I don't get this. What's preventing Shout from uploading (not to make money on) the episodes for which they cannot license the original movies? Exactly. It didn't used to, at least for a whole lot of room, but YT now has a way to dispute these things, and you can actually fill it out and explain that it was a bootleg copy to begin with used by the then-TV station that hosted it. Which means that it most definitely falls under fair use. I know a LOT about this because for years I've hunted down all kinds of gems from movies to music to some very obscure clips. For instance, all those bootleg copies of some ABBA songs that have never been officially released, have no copyright owner. Nope. Because they were never officially released. A copyright cannot be claimed if the product was never sold. |
|
|
|
Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 18, 2020 1:55:39 GMT -5
Does it matter in this case that Godzilla versus the Sea Monster was used illegally on the show in the first place? I... actually had not heard that yet. Huh. Thanks. I believe the distinction is less "they were profiting off of my work" and more "they were robbing me of profits by making my work available for nothing" in that case. Available for nothing is exactly what fair use is. And in the YT world, that is most definitely allowed. If the channel isn't monetized, they can't scream about something being available for nothing as nobody is robbing profits from the guy since his product isn't available through any source or company or himself. Dispute it. As bad as YT is, and the crap they're up to, they really don't care about that filmmaker from Canada. So if he squawks, he'll be screaming into a void. Check: His product as seen through the altered version of the MST3K treatment is NOT his product. Parody, remixed, mash-ups, educational purpose, ALL of those things are under the fair use act. And definitely legal to host on a social media site like youtube. |
|
|
|
Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 18, 2020 2:03:48 GMT -5
The deal for The Final Sacrifice is particularly strange because it isn't available on DVD, Rifftrax, and many other places, but it is still available on VHX and Google Play. I guess the contract was longer than seven years for those specific platforms. It's also available here in 2 parts: The Final Sacrifice www.dailymotion.com/video/x5g3ahg (first half) www.dailymotion.com/video/x5g3ane (second half) And the copyright owner cannot say a thing about dailymotion as they do host everything on the premise of Fair Use. That's stated up front iirc. |
|
|
|
Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 18, 2020 2:07:42 GMT -5
BTW peeps, I have talked with Rory, and once I get the time, I will send him the file for The Final Sacrifice MST Ep. And he will most definitely dispute the copyright owner and use the fair use clause. It might take a while though. Bigger files are always a pain in the ass.
|
|
|
|
Post by Diet Kolos on Jul 19, 2020 9:31:05 GMT -5
I recently had 213-Godzilla vs. The Sea Monster pulled mostly down off YouTube by Toho who not only claimed the movie but also most of host segments. I'm not sure if disputing fair use would get me anything other than a copyright strike with them. Okay here's how it works, when you dispute a copyright in the instance you want your video put back up, that's all you're disputing is to be able to put it back up or the block taken off of it. You're not claiming to own the copyright. YT actually has a list of criteria for which you would dispute an action. It's only a strike if you dispute that you own the thing. So don't say you own that. But Fair Use can be for any number of things. When it comes to MST3K which is a popular TV series about all these movies that have already since been aired decades ago, the whole Fair Use for educational purposes comes into play since MST3K episodes can be featured as educational towards how TV shows last century were made. You can use any criteria within the fair use clause. You can also dispute it based on the fact it's the property of MST3K because it is altered, by the TV show producers and writers themselves. So that movie and sound therein have already been altered to that degree that it is NOT the original but a legitimate copy done on a TV show that featured it. A friend of mine, Rory Paige, had put the episode The Black Scorpion on his channel. Of course I sent him the file I ripped from my own DVD of it but he had the same deal where the copyright owners tried to have it blocked. He disputed it and told them it wasn't the original movie and it was uploaded by the Fair Use Act. YT took the block off and there the episode sits. Anyone can see it. He also uploaded a few other gems. Another friend, Loren Bopeppy, uploaded all the menus I ripped from my discs and sent to him. Of course nobody said anything because Dave Long who created the menus is a really cool guy and loves that we did all of this. And Shout Factory has never caused any grief over anyone featuring MST3K. It's a shame that very few people know that YT can put something back up if you dispute the blocking of a video from an old TV show. Or an old movie. Because you as the uploader, did have the right to feature something based on all the criteria that Fair Use permits. Alright. You're going to have to walk me through this. Let's say I uploaded 401-Space Travelers. Sony does a Content ID claim on 90% of the episode and the upload is blocked worldwide. Then what? What is the concrete, step-by-step guide to disputing and winning so the video isn't blocked? And if I've already consented to trimming the copyrighted material out ( As I've already done here) is it worth deleting, re-uploading and disputing? |
|
|
|
Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 20, 2020 6:27:29 GMT -5
Here's where people get tripped up, you're not claiming a copyright. You're telling them that your video is uploaded as FAIR USE.
Sony can go ahead and claim they own the copyright. Fine. Let them. What you're disputing is that you can feature it on your channel under the Fair Use Act. It's just that simple. I've gotten videos blocked too. And every time I've had them right back to being unblocked. It's not a strike against your channel. It's simply a copyright owner is claiming the copyright and wants it blocked. But YT does NOT strike you because you failed to ask some swollen meathead permission to upload it. You don't need permission to upload something. And YT doesn't leave something blocked if you're disputing the owner with Fair Use. It exists across the board for everything.
Then when they get all "oh we own the copyright" and YT is all "oh we had to block this bla bla bla" that's when you go in and simply dispute the action of it being blocked. That's all you're doing. You're disputing the block - NOT the copyright. Okay?
Under the Fair Use Act, you can feature a movie, a video, anything as long as you are using it for the purpose of whatever falls under the Fair Use Act.
It can be for educational purposes, or anything else listed under Fair Use.
For example: My friend Rory uploaded The Black Scorpion MST Episode (which I gave to him) as it was for my blog just to pinpoint where in the episode all the dialog on the animated menu was coming from. So in that instance it really was for educational purposes. The education of how those menus were put together by Dave Long. It doesn't matter what kind of educational purpose you want it for, it can be for anything.
But rarely do we come into disputes with copyright holders. Most of the time they allow it because if they see my videos they would know it's fan-made music and parody videos. There's only been a few times where I had to dispute a block on something. And each time, I won because Fair Use is a thing. I had a block on one recently that lasted a few days, but it was unblocked with nary a word about it. In that instance it was a remix of the soundtrack I used in my Digital Soldier oath. It was more like a mash-up. So in that category I was able to dispute the block because the music was altered.
And while some copyright owners can get mean and demand YT block it, you can still dispute it based on the fact it is altered and changed in some way. Heck, throw a special effect in there somewhere. Do you have video editing software? There are just simply too many ways around pompous dickweeds that own copyrights. YT as far as I know, doesn't play favorites with owners of old outdated movies and TV shows.
Look up Fair Use. It's your friend.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2020 14:21:42 GMT -5
But you can't just upload a whole movie and claim fair use. There's far more nuance to that. You have to be able to demonstrate that your use falls under fair use. And there are at least two factors that would seem to forbid any of us YouTube uploaders from claiming it. www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html"Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole: Under this factor, courts look at both the quantity and quality of the copyrighted material that was used. If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found; if the use employs only a small amount of copyrighted material, fair use is more likely. That said, some courts have found use of an entire work to be fair under certain circumstances. And in other contexts, using even a small amount of a copyrighted work was determined not to be fair because the selection was an important part—or the “heart”—of the work." "Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work: Here, courts review whether, and to what extent, the unlicensed use harms the existing or future market for the copyright owner’s original work. In assessing this factor, courts consider whether the use is hurting the current market for the original work (for example, by displacing sales of the original) and/or whether the use could cause substantial harm if it were to become widespread."
In short: claiming fair use when YouTube removes your video for copyright infringement may get your video back up, but I doubt it would hold up in court should it ever come to that.
|
|
|
|
Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 20, 2020 19:19:44 GMT -5
You're misunderstanding the fair use clause and equating that with those that seek to monetize the thing. You can upload a whole movie and keep it up. Please refer to the example of The Black Scorpion that Rory uploaded. That is the whole show. All of it. And if he uploaded it as the original movie sans MST3K, it would have still been the same issue. The whole shebang. A free channel is absolutely what fair use is for. There are many free movies on the YT. Here's an example of getting around nasty copyright owners by altering the video (yes in whole) to stay unblocked: King of California www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Nwg-kuiXY4I can find these all day. The uploader in that instance simply altered the whole entire picture embedded in a swirly star graphic. Rendering it altered. The whole thing is altered. Now what I would have done is put the graphic over the end credits and maybe put some sparkly graphic over the very beginning of it, and then the rest of it just as is. That would have sufficed. But it works and it's there. I can find these examples all day. And yes all of them would be examples of how people gotten around copyrights. And let me point out to you that YT does NOT remove videos for copyright infringement; they BLOCK them when someone squawks and then they give YOU, the uploader, the option to dispute it. Dispute is good. If you had something blocked and just uploaded it again, without any communication with YT, then that's on you. Dispute is there for a reason. And YT is fair about it. They really cannot control who uploads what. They're more into playing political games anyway. MST is like the last thing they're worried about. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 0:50:20 GMT -5
Whether I make money from my uploads or not (I don’t) is irrelevant. If I upload an entire MST3K episode without legal authority to do so, and especially an episode that’s available on DVD, then I’m going to run afoul of the copyright holder (Shout). It doesn’t matter if the entire episode is up for supposed “educational” purposes, such as your friend’s video, because I’ve made the entire episode available for free and have likely deincentivized potential consumers from buying the show from Shout.
My point is that you can’t just claim fair use because you’re using the video to illustrate something on a blog. You’re (potentially) taking business away from Shout, and they’d therefore have every right to have your video removed or worse. I do not think I’m misinterpreting the fair use act. It is designed to give some leeway to those using copyrighted works without a license; it is not designed to allow unlicensed use of any copyrighted work for any old reason.
|
|
|
|
Post by discomoonmusic on Jul 21, 2020 2:47:45 GMT -5
And you'd be wrong. You can upload a movie or a video without taking business away from the owners. What you're saying all comes out of misinfo and myth.
There are several channels that literally feature the entire episodes of MST3K and Shout! has never had a problem with any of it.
You're just simply wrong. I already explained it and gave numerous examples. Youtube is NOT a nanny. It's literally a website that broadcasts videos. End of.
Further notes: Unlicensed use is probably something you should look up. YT is a very well equipped to deal with "unlicensed" users since they are the majority of their userbase. Meaning it's a free site. You don't need any "license" to view something. Even for free. Did we all need licenses to sit in a living room and watch movies? No. We don't. If you got the disc, it's yours to do with what you want. Copyrights only go so far. And YT is a whole other beast. If you're afraid of them, fine. But I know what's up and I choose to not live in fear.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 10:11:49 GMT -5
First of all, there's no need to be rude. I get you, you think I'm wrong. We can still be civil about this.
Your examples, frankly, don't cut it. You've only proven that people upload copyrighted works without permission to YouTube... so? That doesn't prove that they're being covered by fair use (you have yet to demonstrate that).
You also claim "MST3K and Shout! has never had a problem with" episodes of the show being uploaded without proper license. How do you know they have no problem with it? Unless you speak for either entity then that's merely a supposition on your part. We don't know why they haven't had all of these videos removed because we're not particularly entitled to that information.
I never said that anyone needs a license to view something. To broadcast something, however, that's different and does require a license. That said...
"Did we all need licenses to sit in a living room and watch movies? No. We don't. If you got the disc, it's yours to do with what you want." Purchasing a copy of a copyrighted work is in fact a license for you to use that work for its intended purpose (your consumption of the material, in this case watching it). Here's a disclaimer from a WB Blu-ray that clarifies this: "This copyrighted product is authorized for sale or rental for private home use in the USA and Canada ONLY. Federal law provides severe civil and criminal penalties for the unauthorized distribution, reproduction, exhibition or retransmission of copyrighted motion pictures, videotapes, or videodiscs."
20th Century Fox Blu-ray: "The unauthorized reproduction or distribution of this copyright work is illegal. Criminal copyright infringement, including infringement without monetary gain, is investigated by the FBI and is punishable by..." yada yada yada.
Here's one from a Shout! MST DVD set: "For noncommercial private exhibition in homes only. Any public performance, other use or copying is strictly prohibited."
So no, you are not entitled to do whatever you want with it. By uploading an MST episode (a copyrighted work) to YouTube, it's no longer a matter of private exhibition in your home, it becomes a public performance (enabling its broadcast to people across the world), both clear violations of the agreement you made with the copyright holder when you purchased the disc. Even if you aren't making money on the distribution of the copyrighted work, you are in fact in violation of copyright law.
|
|
