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Post by Afgncaap5 on Aug 19, 2020 21:51:43 GMT -5
Breaks from MST3K are understandable. Rumor has it this was a bit of a problem in the waaaaaay old timey MST3K news groups and such in the early Internet days.
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Post by BoB3K on Aug 20, 2020 13:04:58 GMT -5
I have gotten used to watching the entire uninterrupted film because of Rifftrax. I don't miss the Mads, the 'bots, the songs, or the skits. That format had it's time, but nearly 20 years later and I personally have moved on. It seems like there's two different camps on this. I am on the other side. I can see how people don't like the skits, but I do. But beside that, I've found that 20 yrs later, I don't really ever watch a riffed movie in one sitting and uninterrupted. Like I don't need or can't take that much cheesy/bad movie. When I watch an MST3K now, I usually pause it either right before or after the mid-way skit, and then come back and watch some more the next time. With Rifftrax, I still do that too, the pausing point is just random, and nowadays with my very lukewarm feelings for modern rifftrax, I might even watch it in more than two chunks, or at some point never come back to it. |
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Aug 21, 2020 3:47:43 GMT -5
I'm in the pro-skit camp myself. Honestly, as much as the theme song tries to shield against such impulses, I love the overarching non-skit "plot" segments of MST3K too. A bitter mad scientist tormenting the janitor who got the better of him, only to *still* (usually) be beaten by said janitor, keeping a rickety movie-theater-in-a-can afloat in space, going back in time through wormholes, all of it. For as downright silly and lighthearted as MST3K is, I just love its lore, ya know?
And the non-lore skits are incredible. My sister and I still quote the murder mystery dinner party to each other, for instance. They're just, uh... well, they're just fun.
Which isn't to say that I dislike the movie segments, of course, that's the "meat" of most episodes, but the skits really tie the show together for me.
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Post by BoB3K on Aug 22, 2020 11:37:18 GMT -5
I love the overarching non-skit "plot" segments of MST3K too. A bitter mad scientist tormenting... Yes, I think one of the things that Original MST3K had, both CC and SciFi, was that for all the silliness and cartooniness, it was essentially played straight -- Joel and Mike were trapped up in space, albeit not terribly down about it or really treated that badly. Dr F was trying to be a good mad scientist, with questionable results. Frank was a second banana albeit with a pretty flimsy mean streak that often lost out to his light-heartedness. Bobo and Brain Guy were, well, Bobo and Brain Guy. I hated Pearl in Season 7 (mainly because she was just played for a one-note joke), but once she became a main character and MJP gave her multiple dimensions of meanness, vulnerability, and silliness, she ended up being one of the best characters on the show. Compare that to the Reboot where all the characters, but the mads especially, came off very meta and snarky and fake, even though there were still often funny. |
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Aug 24, 2020 1:37:06 GMT -5
Compare that to the Reboot where all the characters, but the mads especially, came off very meta and snarky and fake, even though there were still often funny. I agree to a degree, but I kinda think that's intentional. Kinga Forrester seems like she's going out of her way to find a way to generate a quick revenue stream. Rather than Dr. F's concerns for the scientific pursuits and Pearl's concerns about global conquest and vengeance, Kinga's vice feels like it's straight up greed (which actually makes their family an interesting sort of "power triad" but that's a topic for another blog post.) I think that Kinga's character is intentionally trying to be meta in a way that she thinks "will really appeal to the viewers". In a way, she's kinda like the executive from the Poochy episode of the Simpsons, trying to come up with the coolest, hippest thing, possibly missing out on what the viewers actually want along the way. Ultimately, her attempts to be meta might have been a bit too meta for their own good, but I like the implications, whether they're real or not |
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Post by crowschmo on Aug 24, 2020 11:46:21 GMT -5
^^^^^ I hated that aspect of the show. The original did have references to viewers (with the letters from same, and The Mads' occasional mention of ratings, and Joel or Mike saying "we'll be right back"), but it was more just a peak into the relationships of the 'bots and their humans and the evil scientists and such and their "experiment" and wasn't this blatant money grab.
It might be indicative of how our world really is - unfortunately - but I didn't want to be clobbered in the head with it every second of the show. I'd rather have that home-spun feel still woven into it. There were no real quiet moments between Jonah and the 'bots, and there sure as hell wasn't any between Kinga and Max like we got with Clay and Frank. I think it still would have worked in this modern era to have that more homey feel on occasion and not the slick, over-done, smack in the face style.
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Post by travis on Aug 28, 2020 16:30:44 GMT -5
I'd love to see the already-written live shows turned in to studio episodes. A chance to see DEATHSTALKER 2 or NO RETREAT NO SURRENDER would be fun. It'd be even better to see them done like the original show. With the puppeteers voicing the robots, and the cast members all riffing the movie in the same room. Granted, COVID has changed all of that... but it'd be nice to eventually see. With the conclusion being that Joel all but completely squandered the take from his first, much-celebrated Kickstarter effort, I would have to end up sending in another donation in a moment of extreme weakness in order to participate this time around - contrasted against doing so with great enthusiasm for that first. Don't blow money sending merch to donors, just focus on producing another 7-8 quality episodes. You'd think he'd have done that the first time around - what change should anybody expect here? If Joel had raised 5+ mill the first time and hadn't wasted it on concept art, superfluous bonuses for backers, pointless star cameos, expensive, hard -to-schedule nerd friendly casting and, oh yeah, HAD INVOLVED ANY OF THE PREVIOUS WRITERS/AND CAST FROM THE GET-GO; and had spent all that money on actually producing a show, we'd be having a much different convo now. It may not have been the flashiest of products, it may not have even gotten picked up by Netflix, but I abso-freaking-lutely believe it would've been a better, funnier product. The amount of wasted resources and goodwill Joel spent on the Netflix series is incalculable. He burned his bridges with Trace and Frank, he wasted millions of the fan's AND Shout's cash, and now he's on his 3rd set of castmembers because he overpromised and underdelivered then tossed aside people that signed on, like Hampton and Grant Baciocco. What I'm saying is, Joel would need to do a big mea culpa and start from scratch, while giving some creative control to other people before I give him 1 more red cent. I'm with you on this. I was really excited about the Kickstarter and getting a new season, but the final product was so sterile and piece-meal. It could have been one amazing puppet show if the money had been managed better and the focus was on the show. |
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Post by travis on Aug 28, 2020 16:33:03 GMT -5
^^^^^ I hated that aspect of the show. The original did have references to viewers (with the letters from same, and The Mads' occasional mention of ratings, and Joel or Mike saying "we'll be right back"), but it was more just a peak into the relationships of the 'bots and their humans and the evil scientists and such and their "experiment" and wasn't this blatant money grab. It might be indicative of how our world really is - unfortunately - but I didn't want to be clobbered in the head with it every second of the show. I'd rather have that home-spun feel still woven into it. There were no real quiet moments between Jonah and the 'bots, and there sure as hell wasn't any between Kinga and Max like we got with Clay and Frank. I think it still would have worked in this modern era to have that more homey feel on occasion and not the slick, over-done, smack in the face style. This. |
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Post by edgecase41 on Sept 5, 2020 14:37:16 GMT -5
I won't support funding for live shows. Joel should be recording those while touring. But even then, live shows are not a substitute for the studio. There's so much more to MST than just movie riffing. I love the whole concept of being trapped in space and forced to watch bad movies as an evil experiment. I love the coziness of the theater and iconic silhouettes, as well as the coziness of the host segments on the bridge, deep 13, castle Forrester, etc. I love the collision of a Saturday morning kids show and late night creature feature. Without all of that the live shows might still be funny, but to me they're also rather bland by comparison and not any where close to approaching the real thing.
The only way I would contribute is if Joel offers the KTMA episodes. Those are the only rewards I would consider.
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Post by Megalon on Sept 5, 2020 16:02:30 GMT -5
I won't support funding for live shows. Joel should be recording those while touring. But even then, live shows are not a substitute for the studio. There's so much more to MST than just movie riffing. I love the whole concept of being trapped in space and forced to watch bad movies as an evil experiment. I love the coziness of the theater and iconic silhouettes, as well as the coziness of the host segments on the bridge, deep 13, castle Forrester, etc. I love the collision of a Saturday morning kids show and late night creature feature. Without all of that the live shows might still be funny, but to me they're also rather bland by comparison and not any where close to approaching the real thing. Agree 100%. I used to think MST3k was all about the riffing and the bad movies, but then I realized... I've never even bothered to watch an episode of the Film Crew, Cinematic Titanic, or any of the live shows, nor have I watched more than a handful of Rifftrax. As it turns out, once you take out the show's basic premise and trappings (space, robots, puppets, etc.), it loses all appeal for me. |
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Post by kmorgan on Sept 9, 2020 20:23:03 GMT -5
I won't support funding for live shows. Joel should be recording those while touring. But even then, live shows are not a substitute for the studio. There's so much more to MST than just movie riffing. I love the whole concept of being trapped in space and forced to watch bad movies as an evil experiment. I love the coziness of the theater and iconic silhouettes, as well as the coziness of the host segments on the bridge, deep 13, castle Forrester, etc. I love the collision of a Saturday morning kids show and late night creature feature. Without all of that the live shows might still be funny, but to me they're also rather bland by comparison and not any where close to approaching the real thing. Agree 100%. I used to think MST3k was all about the riffing and the bad movies, but then I realized... I've never even bothered to watch an episode of the Film Crew, Cinematic Titanic, or any of the live shows, nor have I watched more than a handful of Rifftrax. As it turns out, once you take out the show's basic premise and trappings (space, robots, puppets, etc.), it loses all appeal for me. I can understand that, but I'd certainly count the live shows as an exception. The way the cast reacts to the audience can make things a lot more funny that just a studio-bound performance with no feedback. While I hope the shows were/ will be recorded for posterity, I'll still support them either way. |
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Post by beljah on Sept 20, 2020 15:02:56 GMT -5
The only way I would contribute is if Joel offers the KTMA episodes. Those are the only rewards I would consider. Well that's not likely to happen since, as I understand it, they never had the rights to use those films back then. It's been over 30 years now and if there were agreements and money to be made, it would have already happened. I don't really know how Joel handles it other than the Cinematic Titanic live shows, where it was clever to have those live shows filmed and released as new eps with no studio equivalents. I believe that's what you were pointing to. The audience reaction and shots(we truly are dweebs, are we not?😉), the shorts, and the closing songs make them worthwhile IMO. I do appreciate the fact that whatever incarnation, Best Brains never insulted their audience's intellect with canned laughter. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 17:30:14 GMT -5
The only way I would contribute is if Joel offers the KTMA episodes. Those are the only rewards I would consider. Well that's not likely to happen since, as I understand it, they never had the rights to use those films back then. Well it's true that KTMA's license to show those movies likely didn't allow the station or its employees to produce altered versions, but I don't think that's preventing Shout from licensing those films today and selling the KTMA episodes. For one thing, Shout has already sold two KTMA shows, albeit in a very limited manner. But more importantly, during the show's cable run, BBI definitely licensed films from the incorrect parties and used films on the assumption that they were PD. For example, check this BBI production chart from Tom's Temple which shows MST Hour episodes labeled "PD" which shouldn't be. Marooned is not in the public domain, neither are Cave Dwellers or Pod People (or they wouldn't have been PD at the time). www.mst3ktemple.com/images/mem-cc-hourlist.jpgHere's another BBI document listing season 6 episodes: Samson vs. the Vampire Women, for example, was licensed from "Sinister" (Sinister Cinema), but Sinister is one of those mom and pop video labels that has skirted the line between bootlegging and legitimacy for decades. Shout licensed Samson from Cinematografica for Vol. XXIV. www.mst3ktemple.com/images/mem-cc-sea6-list.jpg |
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Post by edgecase41 on Sept 21, 2020 8:49:55 GMT -5
The only way I would contribute is if Joel offers the KTMA episodes. Those are the only rewards I would consider. Well that's not likely to happen since, as I understand it, they never had the rights to use those films back then. It's been over 30 years now and if there were agreements and money to be made, it would have already happened. Jordan Fields from Shout is on record saying that there is no legal barrier to properly licensing the films they used back then and releasing the KTMA episodes. |
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Post by jadenh on Sept 21, 2020 12:48:55 GMT -5
Well, that's definitely good to know. However, it does make me wonder even more why they won't release them. Do they really think they're that bad? There's obviously a demand for them and if there's no problem licensing the films and releasing the episodes, then release the episodes.
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