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Post by intonyeon on May 13, 2021 16:01:06 GMT -5
I don’t know what you are even tryin to claim man!
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Post by Diet Kolos on May 13, 2021 16:14:57 GMT -5
Speaking of sincerity in movie-making. Sincerity certainly makes riffing easier. I don't wholly object to an insincere film, to a point. And its a very fine line. An out and out comedy CAN work, in my opinion, but it has to be camp comedy, like Catalina Caper. And even that's iffy. Its when the movie is self-aware that I think the watchability and riffing starts to suffer.
I'll call it the Hobgoblins Line. Hobgoblins is not a sincere film. Rick Sloane himself laughs at you when the film is over. Its a joke movie. They KNOW the Hobgoblins are dumb puppets. The riffing is VERY sparse for the episode (Project RIFF shows it as having the lowest amount of riffs since Season 1).
Now...Hobgoblins isn't a terrible episode even though I don't really like that they riffed it. Hobgoblins, for being a tasteless ugly film is...entertaining, in a tasteless ugly way. Because that's what Rick Sloane intended. The riffing I think gets that and they didn't try to out-riff the movie, so to speak. Hence the very low, relaxed riff rate.
Another example of a movie beyond the Hobgoblins Line is Wizards of The Lost Kingdom 2. Which, if I recall correctly, Joel said was a mistake to do because they thought it was a real sequel to the first one and not a dumb knock-off comedy.
If you watch the whole thing unriffed, its clearly supposed to be a comedy. For example in the beginning the disembodied voice tells Caedmon to drink his coffee to which he responds "What's coffee?" (A line that's cut out of the MST version) The way the kid walks. The dumb arm growing effect at the end with David Carradine's one-liner. Etc. It's just...bad comedy. And its really hard to riff over it because the movie isn't taking itself seriously. Plus they didn't adjust the riffing to it like they did in Hobgoblins, its the fast-pace riffing like the rest of Season 11) So its just...a mess to watch.
So...I forget what I was saying.
Something about how an insincere movie makes the job of riffing that much harder or something. I dunno.
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Post by Megalon on May 13, 2021 16:19:26 GMT -5
NOTE TO FUTURE READERS OF THIS THREAD:
The Kickstarter ended back on page 114. You can stop reading now. The rest of this thread is just one user stirring the pot and everyone else failing to block him.
Good day.
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Post by Diet Kolos on May 13, 2021 16:25:02 GMT -5
You sure? I could've sworn we were on Day 40 of the Kickstarter. The stretch goal is Joel will give every backer a hug if we constantly argue online.
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Post by dudehitscar on May 13, 2021 16:38:12 GMT -5
wait.. is the hitler building scene in the original japanese version of the film? Folks talk about how the US version added so much footage I assumed it was just in that one. my god that is even worse.. The context of where the shot comes from doesn't exclude the tastelessness of including it in a kids film.. you are making a lot of assumptions ('I'm sure the adults would have laughed').. how are you sure of that? that isn't the only time the movie chose to rub the kids nose in WW2 imagery.. writing in a chance to show a nuclear explosion and showing the aftermath of such with the burned out cities and the most BIZARRE one where the soldier are killed in a way that they disintegrate and leave behind a shadow of themselves on the wall.. just like what happened in hiroshima and nagasaki . you think the japanese parents were laughing at that? The final 'climax' battle is just as bad.. punishing the kids with real intense footage of bombings (of course right.. 'these japanese kids want as much WW2 reminders in their silly space man fighting aliens film!'..) and then mix it in with the same 4 shots of the spaceships fighting over and over (kids are too dumb to notice so why bother right?). great MST3K episode though. The wartime footage is absent in the Japanese version. That was added as stock footage (probably to pad the length since it was for TV) for the American release. The Hitler building is from the original Japanese cut. I don't understand how a shot of a (model) building with an enormous depiction of Hitler being shown blown to smithereens by alien spacecraft is tasteless except for the fact that it's Hitler's likeness being blown up. Personally, I don't think that's particularly tasteless but I'll concede that YMMV. Nevertheless, I don't think that's conclusive proof that Invasion of the Neptune Men has absolutely zero artistic value behind it and that the filmmakers (just the chief staff or everyone on the crew? what's your argument here?) were only trying to mock and punish their audience. No, I don't know for certain that Japanese audiences in 1961 laughed at the Hitler building, yes, it's an assumption. I do believe that the Hitler building shot isn't intended to be malicious and I stand by my reasoning (specifically, the similar shot of the destruction of the Japanese liberal party HQ). And I do know that people have laughed at it, I've seen so myself. The MST3K version is also evidence of that, although feel free to nitpick this argument on the grounds that people are laughing 100% solely at MST3K and not at all to the movie they're riffing. I think you're making just as many assumptions about the nature of the atomic explosions and what you consider to be WW2 imagery. How are you sure that the atomic explosion is an overt reminder of Hiroshima and not just an atomic explosion? Really all you've said here is shown that the film can be considered tasteless, specifically in the alien invasion scenes. You haven't proven --and I don't think you can-- that the people who made it were simply laughing on the way to the bank. You certainly haven't proven that there's no artistic merit at all in the entire film. Also it just seems to me that you don't know much about Japanese entertainment, much less about what's considered appropriate in children's entertainment. What you may consider tasteless is often just a matter of fact in Japan: off-hand, I can think of several Japanese-produced TV shows and movies ostensibly for children with content that we'd consider gruesome, horrific, immature, or even taboo. Kids being shot by (real) guns, monsters dismembering each other, and fictional characters based on or even directly invoking real life bastards such as Hitler. That doesn't mean, however, that all that content was the product of people trying to harm their audiences. How many children's films from Hollywood depict open displays of affection, namely kissing? That's generally avoided in Japanese entertainment for the same audience. I don't know that the reason for that is a matter of taste or not, but it's further testament to the different attitudes in the people who make these films. I'm not saying that children's entertainment depicting Hitler is absolutely 100% all right, just that there is a cultural barrier here that I do not fully understand. I'm certain that you understand it even less. And that's OK - you're offering your perspective, just as I'm trying to offer mine. I'm merely trying to suggest that you don't default to the assumption that the filmmakers were using film as a tool to hurt. yes I am aware of my opinion (which I called my opinion several times) is in fact just my opinion. Shall I say it again? It's my opinion. beating me up for not having all the data and filling those gaps on intent with my opinion while you did the exact same thing is pretty hypocritical and silly. we are both making assumptions and filling in the gaps of context when we watch these movies. I am reminded of the endless debates in the horror circles about I spit on your grave.. you will get folks who will argue to death that the film is actually some inspired feminist masterpiece. for the rest of us is an abhorrent hateful film and the filmmakers should be ashamed. I don't care what the intent was.. the results speak for themselves. Perhaps the filmmakers don't hate the audience.. the film they made sure does IMO. should we debate the cultural influences and intent of a film like Salo too while we are at it?
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Post by intonyeon on May 13, 2021 16:42:32 GMT -5
Ok but we’re talking about a goofy Japanese kids movie with a terrible dub not a horror movie that exploits ra*e and revenge fantasies
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Post by jadenh on May 13, 2021 16:56:48 GMT -5
So, Laserblast is a pretty funny episode, right guys?
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Post by dudehitscar on May 13, 2021 16:57:46 GMT -5
Ok but we’re talking about a goofy Japanese kids movie with a terrible dub not a horror movie that exploits ra*e and revenge fantasies commenter above says I shouldn't assume the filmmakers intentions despite what the finished product is. You think he is right unless it comes to horror films?
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Post by intonyeon on May 13, 2021 17:03:46 GMT -5
If the filmmakers think they made a masterpiece than yeah, that’s what they think lol I don’t really get you man
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2021 17:06:57 GMT -5
beating me up for not having all the data and filling those gaps on intent with my opinion while you did the exact same thing is pretty hypocritical and silly. I did not "beat you up" over anything. I have no intention of further engaging with you on this subject or any other. Perhaps it would be in the best interest for both of us and for the rest of the forum for you to do likewise.
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Post by Diet Kolos on May 13, 2021 17:07:47 GMT -5
Laserblast is a pretty good episode. All of Season 7 is pretty good. I think my favorite of the season is Deathstalker.
Of all the episodes in season 7 my least favorite is probably Brute Man. It's not one of my least favorite episodes but it's below season 7's average.
But, like all of my least favorite episodes, I try not to focus on it or watch it. Why engage with something you don't enjoy and you know will always be unpleasant? I just tend to ignore it and focus on things I do enjoy.
I'd say that's pretty good advice for everyone.
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Post by jadenh on May 13, 2021 17:23:09 GMT -5
I actually think Brute Man is a great episode, and one of my top ten episodes. But hey, it's cool if you happen to not like it that much.
Personally, I think Quest of the Delta Knights is not a good episode, and is probably the worst of season 9. But hey, who says that I have to watch it? I'll just continue to watch my favorite episodes, which are Gorgo, Devil Fish, and The Screaming Skull.
Now if only we could continue to have more discussions like this.
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Post by dudehitscar on May 13, 2021 20:30:20 GMT -5
Kevin Murphy on Invasion of the Neptune Men:
"Suffice it to say that the reprehensible nature of Invasion of the Neptune Men is embodied in the filmmaker's choice to use actual WWII file footage in what is ostensibly a children's film. To glibly summon the darkest shadows of our century because one has run out of models to blow up is to stoop to Schumacherian levels of banality. Though we as a rule cut only for time, we also cut for violent content, and we very clearly considered arial bombardment footage of Japan to be of a violent nature. Nuff said. ...can you tell I hated this film?"
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Post by intonyeon on May 13, 2021 20:41:22 GMT -5
Too bad he’s literally wrong
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Post by dudehitscar on May 13, 2021 21:19:59 GMT -5
Too bad he’s literally wrong source?
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