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Post by slainmonkey on May 5, 2021 14:22:18 GMT -5
Like I said, I really don’t see a another Kickstarter having this level of success a 3rd time round, I know I wouldn’t do it a 3rd time, and I’m sure there are MANY others who feel the same way. The Gizmoplex needs to be self sustainable, or the show will die.....or at best go crawling across its belly over broken glass to be picked up by another network. Either way, if Joel want’s the show to thrive as an independent production, then he needs this to be commercially viable! again there is a lot of room between never having a kickstarter/pledge drive thing ever again and asking for 5.5 million dollars every season. I hope they can find the balance that rifftrax has. running small ask kickstarters just to pay for movie rights of big name titles that draw a lot of buzz is a tool that mst3k should use if needed. Movie rights likely isn’t the biggest issue since they have access to all the movies that Shout Factory has rights too, so for a while they could likely rest off that for a season or 2. The bigger issue is that MST3K is a more expensive production in general than Rifftrax, so the likely diminishing funding they would get from future Kickstarter’s is a potential problem....again, it all comes down to the sustainability of the Gizmoplex itself. I’m not saying it won’t work, but they are questions that fans need to consider.
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Post by dudehitscar on May 5, 2021 14:22:47 GMT -5
That ties into an earlier semi-related point someone was making earlier in regards to if Joel and Co need to do more fundraising for a potential Season 14 if subscription figures aren't enough with base Gizmoplex (I'm getting tired of typing that, can we just call it GPlex or something?). And the pushback on why that wouldn't be a big deal was "Well Rifftrax does a fundraiser every year. So what?" Its not a big deal because their KS is for a single extra event, not to fund a large portion of their base product or to sustain their operation on the whole. Which is what another fundraiser for Season 14 would be. If it hypothetically needed to happen. It would be like if Rifftrax had a KS to help fund 20 of their planned 50 riffs because the current subscriber base can't pay for everything they want to put out. Or it would be like RIfftrax has a KS to help fund the live shows which is the most profitable things they do every year and those profits funnel into the rest of what rifftrax does (including paying salaries, health insurnance, website tech support, and just maybe.. hear me out.. just maybe some of those profits pay for the rights to do some of the more expensive VODs.) Which is more likely than mike pocketing everything and letting the rest of the rifftrax operation fend for themselves IMO. To flip your guys logic around: I could easily go on rifftrax forums and whine ' why doesn't rifftrax fund their own live events from the profits of their VODS?'.. To which they will say 'cause it's a smart business move, we enjoy the awards that come from it, and being part of making it happen.'
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Post by Diet Kolos on May 5, 2021 14:28:40 GMT -5
Who's whining? I'm just pointing out my logic, as I see it. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it whining.
Calling it whining is purposefully inflammatory. Please desist, you're bringing down the level of discourse, in my opinion.
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Post by dudehitscar on May 5, 2021 14:35:32 GMT -5
again there is a lot of room between never having a kickstarter/pledge drive thing ever again and asking for 5.5 million dollars every season. I hope they can find the balance that rifftrax has. running small ask kickstarters just to pay for movie rights of big name titles that draw a lot of buzz is a tool that mst3k should use if needed. Movie rights likely isn’t the biggest issue since they have access to all the movies that Shout Factory has rights too, so for a while they could likely rest off that for a season or 2. The bigger issue is that MST3K is a more expensive production in general than Rifftrax, so the likely diminishing funding they would get from future Kickstarter’s is a potential problem....again, it all comes down to the sustainability of the Gizmoplex itself. I’m not saying it won’t work, but they are questions that fans need to consider. I agree that MST3K should have free access to anything shout has the rights to.... but that has not been the case.. Joel and Jonah have both been very clear that getting the rights to these movies is a big part of the cost and front work AND when I was running my MST3K group I reached out to shout to license episodes to show in a local movie theater as public viewings (you know, advertise and sell tickets for). they sent me a list of episodes that they have the rights to be able to license to me.. it was pathetically short and strangely didn't include a lot of titles that Shout Factory owned the rights to. The rights game seemes to be more complicated than we think.
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Post by dudehitscar on May 5, 2021 14:52:08 GMT -5
Who's whining? I'm just pointing out my logic, as I see it. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it whining. Calling it whining is purposefully inflammatory. Please desist, you're bringing down the level of discourse, in my opinion. in the scenario I talked about where I used that word.. the whiner would actually be me... call it self depreciating humor. but no surprise that instead of acknowledging my points you would just focus on that.. what was inflammatory was you telling everyone to report me earlier. which was so uncalled for and silly that the mod showed up and just threatened to ban you in response. Look in the mirror.
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Post by majorjoe23 on May 5, 2021 14:54:03 GMT -5
When a studio/filmmaker licenses a film to Shout, Shout can't do whatever it wants with it. For something transformative, like MST3K, Shout has to have a secondary license to alter the film. They basically have go back to the studio and say "Would it be OK if we did this for XX more money?"
There was mention of the pirate forum. I'm a big supporter of Rifftrax (I own almost every title), but I've visited that forum on occasion to do things like download a title that has gone out of print (I still donate the cost of a VOD to Rifftrax) or to get bootlegs of audio captured from live events that couldn't be released merged with the film (in those cases, I've already gotten the MP3 as Kickstarter rewards).
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Post by majorjoe23 on May 5, 2021 14:58:20 GMT -5
That's partially why I'm hoping if this campaign is super successful and they raise 6 million+, Joel puts the extra cash into a rainy day fund to help pay for any future shortages. Exactly. I see people on the Kickstarter saying things like "They should do a stretch goal for a 13th/14th episode." No thanks, hold onto that money for season 14 or any unforeseen expenses, like season 11 had. Now, if he wanted to use any extra money to film the three unrecorded Cinematic Titanic titles as Gizmoplex events, I would be all for that.
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Post by slainmonkey on May 5, 2021 15:06:15 GMT -5
When a studio/filmmaker licenses a film to Shout, Shout can't do whatever it wants with it. For something transformative, like MST3K, Shout has to have a secondary license to alter the film. They basically have go back to the studio and say "Would it be OK if we did this for XX more money?" There was mention of the pirate forum. I'm a big supporter of Rifftrax (I own almost every title), but I've visited that forum on occasion to do things like download a title that has gone out of print (I still donate the cost of a VOD to Rifftrax) or to get bootlegs of audio captured from live events that couldn't be released merged with the film (in those cases, I've already gotten the MP3 as Kickstarter rewards). I never intended to imply that MST3K had free access to every movie that Shout has distribution rights to. However it would likely cut them a cheaper deal, provided the rights owners are fine with the of the movies getting riffed.
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Post by dudehitscar on May 5, 2021 15:35:40 GMT -5
That's partially why I'm hoping if this campaign is super successful and they raise 6 million+, Joel puts the extra cash into a rainy day fund to help pay for any future shortages. Exactly. I see people on the Kickstarter saying things like "They should do a stretch goal for a 13th/14th episode." No thanks, hold onto that money for season 14 or any unforeseen expenses, like season 11 had. I agree with both of you. One new episode a month plus one new short a month for the first year of the gizmoplex is plenty. I don't want bonus episode stretch goals unless they specifically say they are for future seasons.
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Post by wedestroymyths on May 5, 2021 15:39:39 GMT -5
Exactly. I see people on the Kickstarter saying things like "They should do a stretch goal for a 13th/14th episode." No thanks, hold onto that money for season 14 or any unforeseen expenses, like season 11 had. I agree with both of you. One new episode a month plus one new short a month for the first year of the gizmoplex is plenty. I don't want bonus episode stretch goals unless they specifically say they are for future seasons. Yeah...I mean, if this campaign brings in 300k over the goal, that's presumably the first episode of season 14, right there, locked in to start production while the "Gizmoplex year 2 subscription drive" or whatever it's going to be ratchets up in fall 2022 (presumably).
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Post by monkeypretzel on May 5, 2021 21:14:33 GMT -5
I will refrain from asking why a huge RiffTrax financial supporter would be on a pirate forum...oops.
lol. oh boy. yes you see.. the only way I would know about that forum is if I am lying about paying money to rifftrax and just downloaded everything illegally. Good spin.
but wait there is this: www.reddit.com/r/Rifftrax/comments/mnnec1/rifftrax_just_found_out_about_a_popular_forum/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
For the record, unlike rifftrax, I don't hate on everyone in those forums or the folks here sharing KTMA stuff or the guy who made cinema editions of the episodes. There are legit reasons to use that forum. Last thing I downloaded from anywhere that wasn't from Rifftrax officially was a synced rifftrax over the movie twilight back when I was in the middle east living out of hotels. But I paid for the mp3. While that twilight riff was amazing I just don't bother with the 'just the jokes' riffs anymore.
All of this started because I think, and I see a few others do, that the RiffTrax Kickstarters have a fundamentally different goal than the MST3K Kickstarters, because the RiffTrax ones are designed to fund their live show events separate from their other content, and the MST3K ones have been about funding the actual shows that are the content, and now the delivery service as well. The goalposts have moved from "RiffTrax gets most of their money from Kickstarters" to "RiffTrax gets the bulk of their money from doing live shows" to "RiffTrax's most profitable thing is the live shows." Somehow it's "putting down Joel and the reboot" and being a hater to believe that RiffTrax makes more money by recording and selling VOD and .mp3 riffs, their Friends subscriptions, and any revenue coming in from other streaming services like Pluto and Amazon Prime, than they do from ticket sales to their live events and later the VOD and DVD sales of those live events. (Note: RiffTrax almost certainly does not get a cut of concession stand sales either from the Belcourt or from the Fathom Events theaters. Movie Theaters make the vast majority of their profits from selling those expensive beers and popcorn, about an 85% profit margin. I also have never known RiffTrax to sell merchandise at their live shows with the exception of posters at the Reunion Show; usually they provide a nice little take-home gift to their Belcourt audiences like a plastic figure or a pin.) This is a difference of opinion, and without figures, either you could be right or I could. I've provided a case for why I feel my opinion is correct, you disagree. That's fine. What is not fine is how you basically have called me a liar and said I make things up and cherry pick. I think I do a good job of providing sources for my facts and full quotes, and when I give an interpretation of those facts and quotes I make it clear that it's my opinion. What I have seen on this thread and elsewhere is that you have a real problem when someone disagrees with you, and it makes you very angry. It's impossible to have a respectful back-and-forth discussion because of that anger. There are tons of people who disagree with me on this board and on Reddit, but no one other than you found it necessary to find my personal Facebook page and call me names and insult me on my own page. That is something only someone who is very, very angry would do - in my opinion. I should not have implied that you pirated RiffTrax. People can see your stance if they go to the RiffTrax Reddit post you linked to and scroll down to read your comment. It speaks for itself.
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Post by kracker on May 5, 2021 22:23:56 GMT -5
That's partially why I'm hoping if this campaign is super successful and they raise 6 million+, Joel puts the extra cash into a rainy day fund to help pay for any future shortages. BTW the idea of a rainy day fund is kind of moot because either way, the extra money is going towards episodes. If there are any future shortages, it would just mean they'd wouldn't be able to make as many new episodes or new content unless they supplement things somehow. The shortages wouldn't mean the Gizmoplex would go down since it only costs 50k to run and they'll still have all this content for people to watch. The sustainability you really speak of its the ability to continue to produce new episodes every month.
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Post by jadenh on May 6, 2021 6:01:01 GMT -5
Okay, but how do I get this stain out of my shirt? No matter how many times I put it through the wash, it never comes out.
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Post by dudehitscar on May 6, 2021 10:38:12 GMT -5
Okay, but how do I get this stain out of my shirt? No matter how many times I put it through the wash, it never comes out. wait.. y'all wear shirts here?
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Post by jadenh on May 6, 2021 10:58:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I have one that says I'M A VIRGIN on it.
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