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Post by demoniclambertobava on May 25, 2021 18:44:35 GMT -5
I'm getting more and more curious about this multiple bot idea. It seems to me that now that there are three sets, that kinda points to the idea that the bots from the Netflix episodes aren't the original bots. Are they replicas that Kinga made? It's kind of a fun idea to play with. I never thought they were. I've always assumed the original bots are still on Earth with Mike. Joel and Kinga can manufacture more.
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Post by Mighty Jack on May 25, 2021 19:38:40 GMT -5
And Kinga has Matt Claude Van Damme and his bots... somewhere, either she's playing with multiverses or multiple timelines, or just has multiple experiments going on all over the moon.
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Torgo
Moderator Emeritus
-segment with Crow?
Posts: 15,420
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Post by Torgo on May 25, 2021 19:45:55 GMT -5
The MST Cinematic Universe begins...
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Post by dudehitscar on May 25, 2021 19:56:10 GMT -5
If that’s the case, I kinda hope that Joel’s Gypsy (Calling her GPC is still weird to me) has a more old school voice please no.. the only time I liked Gypsy's voice is when the fact her voice was annoying was the joke (example: Joel's face to her singing in the Hired! The Musical sketch). nails on a chalkboard..
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Post by monkeypretzel on May 25, 2021 20:18:03 GMT -5
In an interview released on the old MST3K.com website at the time of Season 11's release, Lesley Kinzel asked Joel some questions and one of them was about the fans wondering how the Bots got back into space from being on Earth at the end of Diabolik. Sadly, I can't even find the interview in the Internet Archive so it appears to be gone forever, but I did save two screencaps, so I present Joel's original, April 2017 answer:
Joel: "I guess I never really though about it, because in my mind I always thought of that ending as just one alternative ending. And in my mind, I think, "They're robots, they were blown up a hundred times! There's duplicates! Didn't Forrester save a few robots somewhere, for his daughter to turn on?" But people really wanted to know. What's happening? What about those robots? They're on Earth! How did you fix that?"
Lesley: "You're not thinking about the canon!"
Joel: "All I thought was, oh, well, whether they're actually Tom Servo and Crow or they're duplicates of Tom Servo and Crow, it doesn't matter, because they're robots."
Personally, I had problems with Joel's thinking as soon as I read that, and I still do, because 1) it's a very glib dismissal as unimportant of what quite a few fans cared about and still do discuss frequently, and 2) basically what he's saying here, and what he confirmed later on in interviews and in the Season 11 documentary, is that what little he knew about the show's canon after he left, especially the Sci-Fi era, he dismissed as unimportant because it wasn't what he would have done had he still been involved, and he didn't like most of it.
But, that's what we've got. There are as many duplicates of Tom Servo, Crow, and the other bots as there needs to be because Kinga inherited them from her father, and we should really just relax and care about the much more important things that Joel cares about.
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Post by demoniclambertobava on May 25, 2021 20:18:34 GMT -5
Gypsy was a rare sight when I first started watching as a kid, and whenever she'd pop up sounding like a cow and making cryptic noises I was fascinated by her strange and mysterious role on the ship - running 'the higher functions of the Satellite of Love'. Later she became a more active character and that was great. I do miss Gypsy/GPC's old voice a lot, but I understand the stated rationale for not using a spoof female voice anymore.
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Post by demoniclambertobava on May 25, 2021 20:23:44 GMT -5
In an interview released on the old MST3K.com website at the time of Season 11's release, Lesley Kinzel asked Joel some questions and one of them was about the fans wondering how the Bots got back into space from being on Earth at the end of Diabolik. Sadly, I can't even find the interview in the Internet Archive so it appears to be gone forever, but I did save two screencaps, so I present Joel's original, April 2017 answer: Joel: "I guess I never really though about it, because in my mind I always thought of that ending as just one alternative ending. And in my mind, I think, "They're robots, they were blown up a hundred times! There's duplicates! Didn't Forrester save a few robots somewhere, for his daughter to turn on?" But people really wanted to know. What's happening? What about those robots? They're on Earth! How did you fix that?"
Lesley: "You're not thinking about the canon!"
Joel: "All I thought was, oh, well, whether they're actually Tom Servo and Crow or they're duplicates of Tom Servo and Crow, it doesn't matter, because they're robots."
Personally, I had problems with Joel's thinking as soon as I read that, and I still do, because 1) it's a very glib dismissal as unimportant of what quite a few fans cared about and still do discuss frequently, and 2) basically what he's saying here, and what he confirmed later on in interviews and in the Season 11 documentary, is that what little he knew about the show's canon after he left, especially the Sci-Fi era, he dismissed as unimportant because it wasn't what he would have done had he still been involved, and he didn't like most of it. But, that's what we've got. There are as many duplicates of Tom Servo, Crow, and the other bots as there needs to be because Kinga inherited them from her father, and we should really just relax and care about the much more important things that Joel cares about. I remember that response well and never found it to be glib or thoughtless. The fact is he's right, canon and continuity have never been hugely important to the show - it's even in the theme song. But I remember that he gave that answer out, that they were duplicates or are manufactured by Kinga, and it's very plausible IMO and was more than enough for me as a longtime fan to be happy with. I have never been onboard with the supposed antipathy or dismissal of the post-Joel years that I feel some project onto his interviews, and I've kept a close eye over the years. I feel it feeds into a subjective narrative. Further, Bill Corbett and Mary Jo are on the new show. I just don't find it tribalist and I don't think there's anything wrong with the way many of the MST principles have often fluffing off the canon - I don't think it is a value statement at all. YMMV.
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Post by said43 on May 25, 2021 20:43:14 GMT -5
My guess is that it'll be some sort of multiverse explanation for why the hosts and bots differ. It would make more sense to me than there suddenly being multiple Crow and Tom personalities with multiple Kinga experiments running simultaneously.
But then again. It's just a show. I should really just relax.
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Post by Mighty Jack on May 25, 2021 20:55:43 GMT -5
In an interview released on the old MST3K.com website at the time of Season 11's release, Lesley Kinzel asked Joel some questions and one of them was about the fans wondering how the Bots got back into space from being on Earth at the end of Diabolik. Sadly, I can't even find the interview in the Internet Archive so it appears to be gone forever, but I did save two screencaps, so I present Joel's original, April 2017 answer: Joel: "I guess I never really though about it, because in my mind I always thought of that ending as just one alternative ending. And in my mind, I think, "They're robots, they were blown up a hundred times! There's duplicates! Didn't Forrester save a few robots somewhere, for his daughter to turn on?" But people really wanted to know. What's happening? What about those robots? They're on Earth! How did you fix that?"
Lesley: "You're not thinking about the canon!"
Joel: "All I thought was, oh, well, whether they're actually Tom Servo and Crow or they're duplicates of Tom Servo and Crow, it doesn't matter, because they're robots."
Personally, I had problems with Joel's thinking as soon as I read that, and I still do, because 1) it's a very glib dismissal as unimportant of what quite a few fans cared about and still do discuss frequently, and 2) basically what he's saying here, and what he confirmed later on in interviews and in the Season 11 documentary, is that what little he knew about the show's canon after he left, especially the Sci-Fi era, he dismissed as unimportant because it wasn't what he would have done had he still been involved, and he didn't like most of it. But, that's what we've got. There are as many duplicates of Tom Servo, Crow, and the other bots as there needs to be because Kinga inherited them from her father, and we should really just relax and care about the much more important things that Joel cares about. I remember that response well and never found it to be glib or thoughtless. The fact is he's right, canon and continuity have never been hugely important to the show - it's even in the theme song. But I remember that he gave that answer out, that they were duplicates or are manufactured by Kinga, and it's very plausible IMO and was more than enough for me as a longtime fan to be happy with. I have never been onboard with the supposed antipathy or dismissal of the post-Joel years that I feel some project onto his interviews, and I've kept a close eye over the years. I feel it feeds into a subjective narrative. Further, Bill Corbett and Mary Jo are on the new show. I just don't find it tribalist and I don't think there's anything wrong with the way many of the MST principles have often fluffing off the canon - I don't think it is a value statement at all. YMMV. I agree, not glib - Red Dwarf's creators had the same problem, when fans would call them out on continuity or the science facts, etc, the Dwarf producers/writers would have to remind those fans that this is a comedy first, laughs take priority over all of that. So yes, we'll contradict ourselves on science facts on occasion, to serve the comedy. What was it Dr. F said about waffles, they're just a vehicle for syrup? The comedy's the syrup - the waffle's enjoyable, fun to discuss, and play with, but it's a vehicle for the comedy. Like Red Dwarf, I don't believe MST3K needs to commit to a strict continuity, it's flexible.
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Post by dudehitscar on May 25, 2021 22:00:13 GMT -5
Personally, I had problems with Joel's thinking as soon as I read that, and I still do, because 1) it's a very glib dismissal as unimportant of what quite a few fans cared about and still do discuss frequently, and 2) basically what he's saying here, and what he confirmed later on in interviews and in the Season 11 documentary, is that what little he knew about the show's canon after he left, especially the Sci-Fi era, he dismissed as unimportant because it wasn't what he would have done had he still been involved, and he didn't like most of it. gonna need a source on such 'confirmed facts'... this reminds me of the sci-fi era haters spinning the changes they made as somehow being insulting to the CC era/cast/canon.. bottom line: this is the show where Frank took Torgo (the white's) hand and they faded into second banana heaven.. if you can accept that you can accept any explanation they come up for anything.
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Post by Mighty Jack on May 25, 2021 22:31:29 GMT -5
I know Joel's spoken about preferences, but I didn't take that as being disrespectful, just how he preferred things, like the satellite returning to being a satellite and not flying around like a spaceship.
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Post by intonyeon on May 26, 2021 0:50:26 GMT -5
Depending on however bad the Jim Mallon drama was I wouldn’t doubt or blame Joel for wanting to not have anything to do with that era
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Post by demoniclambertobava on May 26, 2021 1:20:25 GMT -5
I remember that response well and never found it to be glib or thoughtless. The fact is he's right, canon and continuity have never been hugely important to the show - it's even in the theme song. But I remember that he gave that answer out, that they were duplicates or are manufactured by Kinga, and it's very plausible IMO and was more than enough for me as a longtime fan to be happy with. I have never been onboard with the supposed antipathy or dismissal of the post-Joel years that I feel some project onto his interviews, and I've kept a close eye over the years. I feel it feeds into a subjective narrative. Further, Bill Corbett and Mary Jo are on the new show. I just don't find it tribalist and I don't think there's anything wrong with the way many of the MST principles have often fluffing off the canon - I don't think it is a value statement at all. YMMV. I agree, not glib - Red Dwarf's creators had the same problem, when fans would call them out on continuity or the science facts, etc, the Dwarf producers/writers would have to remind those fans that this is a comedy first, laughs take priority over all of that. So yes, we'll contradict ourselves on science facts on occasion, to serve the comedy. What was it Dr. F said about waffles, they're just a vehicle for syrup? The comedy's the syrup - the waffle's enjoyable, fun to discuss, and play with, but it's a vehicle for the comedy. Like Red Dwarf, I don't believe MST3K needs to commit to a strict continuity, it's flexible. I do value some canon and continuity in MST - I was always fascinated by the bits of lore like Gizmonics, Gypsy's role on the ship, etc. But I also think the way they always kept it barely explained, obscure and bizarre always lent it a strange magic. The business with Gypsy and 'the payload', or the nature of Kingachrome or Moon 13 or what not, is all of the same style and tone to me; you don't know entirely WTF is going on but it's weird and wonderful. I would love to know more, I eat up any line of dialogue or interview reveal about that stuff, but I'm not sure I want to know everything. I think the show's always kept strict adherence to canon, continuity or 'rules' at arm's length, except for a period in part of the Sci-Fi years where forced structure (not just the host segment storylines, but a sense of sort of stricter rules, if that makes sense?) made it feel a little less loose to me. It felt like someone BTS insisting 'this has to make more sense! explain yourselves!' But I think the comedy ultimately always comes first for MST and that's for the best. The details of stuff like how the bots are back are not wholly relevant. I do assume, though, that they are new models and that this will be explicitly revealed eventually - probably in a tossed-off sentence in a 90 second host segment, which is how it probably should be.
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Post by demoniclambertobava on May 26, 2021 1:22:25 GMT -5
I know Joel's spoken about preferences, but I didn't take that as being disrespectful, just how he preferred things, like the satellite returning to being a satellite and not flying around like a spaceship. I deeply disliked the whole chase plot device, and I got the sense the cast and crew didn't love it either.
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Post by Mighty Jack on May 26, 2021 4:54:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't want to make it sound like I'm against cannon, I think it adds to the magic and fun, I enjoy the world-building if you will, the character interactions, the domestic quality of the host segments in season 3 for example (I remember years ago someone asking me why I liked some of those segments, that they weren't very funny - maybe not, but I enjoyed the character work, the rapport they had, even if was just them hanging out on a rainy day).
But I'm okay with a loose, flexible continuity - it's not written in stone for me, and I don't need everything clarified (how did Larry survive that spider attack? - I say that as a joke, but I guess there are some who took that riff literally, rather than just a quip about a character that looked like Dr. Erhardt - it's cute to play around with the idea of that, but come on).
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