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Post by Megalon on Aug 30, 2021 15:46:45 GMT -5
Season 13 is a continuation of Seasons 11 and 12 in some ways, but also a new beginning (a reboot of the reboot, if you will). The show is ditching its network (Netflix), acquiring a new host (Emily), and undergoing who knows what other changes. This is as big a move as the one from Comedy Central to the Sci-Fi Channel and could see just as many sweeping changes. So what are your predictions? What is changing, and what will stay the same? Here are my thoughts:
- Opening Sequence Will they retain the old one (and the "gag" of having the host repeat the opening each episode), or film a new one? I think they'll have to shoot a new opening for Emily, but maybe they'll keep the old opening for Jonah. More likely, I think they'll shoot an all-new opening that works for each host (with maybe a few key changes here and there (a la "Did I mention my mother's here?")) to signify who's hosting that episode.
- Opening Theme-song Har Mar Superstar was involved in some #MeToo stuff last year, and I'm not sure how that has impacted his relationship with Joel. Will they record a new theme-song or keep the old one? Considering they changed Gypsy's name to accommodate the over-sensitive, I'm thinking Har Mar's theme song will be dropped for the same reason.
- The Skeleton Crew Oddly, this seemed to be one of the more controversial features of the new show. I really have no idea if it will stick around or not, but I'm thinking it won't. I think Joel is too restless as a creator to keep everything the way it was, so he'll probably come up with something new here for Season 13.
- Middle Host Segment Removed from Season 12, I think it'll make a come-back in Season 13.
- Commercial Bumpers I think they're here to stay.
- Closing Credits Will they still be 4-5 minutes long and thank tons of backers? I'm thinking so. And they'll probably use the same music (which I liked).
- Flying Tom Servo and other post-production shenanigans in the theater Sadly, I think they're here to stay. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone can talk Joel out of his worst George Lucas tendencies, especially not after the Kickstarter raised so much money. Oh well.
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Post by intonyeon on Aug 30, 2021 16:12:34 GMT -5
Not really sure if there was a uproar about GPC, seems like some people expressed concern with Joel and he took it to heart.
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Post by Megalon on Aug 30, 2021 16:22:23 GMT -5
Not really sure if there was a uproar about GPC, seems like some people expressed concern with Joel and he took it to heart. That's why I'm inclined to think that Har Mar will get the boot. There's no real pressure on Joel in either case, so if he bends to the political winds on one issues, then he's likely to do the same on the other. In any case, it's not like the theme-song didn't change frequently during the show's original run, so a replacement after 2 seasons would be pretty par for the course.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Aug 30, 2021 17:02:38 GMT -5
- Flying Tom Servo and other post-production shenanigans in the theater Sadly, I think they're here to stay. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone can talk Joel out of his worst George Lucas tendencies, especially not after the Kickstarter raised so much money. Oh well. I don't mind some of that, some of it was funny (Tom trying to lift the rocket in Time Travelers was a hoot), and while not done post-production, they interacted with the movie in the classic era too (the use of props, kissing a character, etc). However, if they go overboard with it as they did with Killer Fish, that's a deal-breaker, that just ruins an episode for me. (I don't hate the new bots, but having them around, means giving them something to do, and that can make an ep too busy, too crowded. They don't leave much breathing room in the theater as it is) I don't have any predictions, more curiosity as to how the multiple hosts will be explained and worked out.
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Post by majorjoe23 on Aug 30, 2021 17:58:37 GMT -5
We heard a portion of a recording of Jonah singing the theme song in the Kickstarter videos, so I'd say Har Mar's theme song being gone is a foregone conclusion.
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Post by BilLumberg on Aug 30, 2021 18:13:42 GMT -5
I think they should have each host sing the theme song for the episodes they are hosting.
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Post by monkeypretzel on Aug 30, 2021 19:48:32 GMT -5
Not really sure if there was a uproar about GPC, seems like some people expressed concern with Joel and he took it to heart.
He took it so to heart that knowing about the issue by May 2017 at the very latest, he waited through another season and two live tours to announce the name change in Summer 2019. It would have been easy to change the name at the very beginning of the first Kickstarter, or on the first live tour if he wasn't aware of the concern until after Season 11 dropped. As for the uproar? It was never an uproar, it was a Tumblr thing that lasted for about a week after Season 11 dropped, with very few people caring there. When someone brought it to Facebook, the basic response was a shrug from the fanbase. I don't think anyone who was actually Romani ever said anything about being offended, at least not that I can remember, including the original fangirl on Tumblr, who raised objections *on behalf of* the Romani. Probably that's why it took so long for any official response, because no one cared about it until suddenly Joel told them they should, and that had more to do in my opinion with the charged political/social climate than anything else.
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Post by intonyeon on Aug 30, 2021 20:23:36 GMT -5
If nobody cares then how did he give in to the political pressure lol
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Post by monkeypretzel on Aug 30, 2021 20:34:29 GMT -5
The only prediction I disagree with is the one about the restoration of the third host segment. I think that's gone forever. There was something said during the Catalina Caper Endless Summer watch along, and sorry I can't remember who said this, about how long one of the host segments was, and how they would never write anything that long now.
That leads into my one prediction: the episodes are going to be short, like Season 12 short, with the exception of the Gamera movie, because that's what Joel thinks people want. The kids have a shorter attention span now, right? So let's make the show shorter and tighter. If you take what he said at face value, about Netflix not giving them notes, and the decisions about how the Netflix show was made being his, then Season 13 should be more of what we've seen. Any significant differences will be interesting, and to me, surprising. (Other than the obvious quality issues with the way production is being done. These shows probably aren't going to look very good, visually.)
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Post by monkeypretzel on Aug 30, 2021 20:49:41 GMT -5
If nobody cares then how did he give in to the political pressure lolOK. I'll spell it out: Joel seemingly had no problem with Gypsy's name for 30+ years, even after he was made aware by one small fan contingent that "gypsy" is considered a slur to the Romani people, to the point that he still used the name in interviews and tweets until late 2020/early 2021. It was only at a time when white male entertainers/creators were getting some pushback for their lack of diversity/inclusivity in their properties that suddenly he announces how important it is to him that Gypsy be known as GPC, not only going forward, but retroactively. Joel's not stupid; he can read the winds and the one thing he hates above anything else is criticism of his work or decisions. He made the change at the time when it was most advantageous to his image to do so, and when anyone objecting could easily be painted as a hater or a bigot or worse - as happened in at least one Facebook group. He didn't "give in" to political pressure, he manipulated a very small concern to a very few people into an announcement that made him look like a hero, like this was always something he was concerned about in the past. It worked; he got a lot of praise and congratulations and it basically took away a lot of attention from the live show cast change he did at the same time. Joel's a magician; distract the audience's attention and get them to focus on something unimportant while you perform your sleight-of-hand.
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Post by majorjoe23 on Aug 30, 2021 21:18:26 GMT -5
The interesting thing about the word Gypsy is that because there are few Roma in America, Americans have a hard time believing anyone is offended by the term.
The Netflix revival exposed a lot of the English-speaking world to MST3K for the first time. For a lot of those people, it was something of a shock that a fairly family-friendly show was using a slur as a name for a main character,
It’s not the first time something like this has happened. When Green Lantern came out, the character named Killowog was something of a shock in the UK, where Wog is a slur against black people. Americans had no idea, so thought nothing of it.
Of course, Green Lantern was a huge flop, so it didn’t really matter. But Joel sure is… something? For making a change to not offend new fans as MST3K’s base grew.
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Post by intonyeon on Aug 30, 2021 21:56:51 GMT -5
If nobody cares then how did he give in to the political pressure lolOK. I'll spell it out: Joel seemingly had no problem with Gypsy's name for 30+ years, even after he was made aware by one small fan contingent that "gypsy" is considered a slur to the Romani people, to the point that he still used the name in interviews and tweets until late 2020/early 2021. It was only at a time when white male entertainers/creators were getting some pushback for their lack of diversity/inclusivity in their properties that suddenly he announces how important it is to him that Gypsy be known as GPC, not only going forward, but retroactively. Joel's not stupid; he can read the winds and the one thing he hates above anything else is criticism of his work or decisions. He made the change at the time when it was most advantageous to his image to do so, and when anyone objecting could easily be painted as a hater or a bigot or worse - as happened in at least one Facebook group. He didn't "give in" to political pressure, he manipulated a very small concern to a very few people into an announcement that made him look like a hero, like this was always something he was concerned about in the past. It worked; he got a lot of praise and congratulations and it basically took away a lot of attention from the live show cast change he did at the same time. Joel's a magician; distract the audience's attention and get them to focus on something unimportant while you perform your sleight-of-hand. Ok but who cared
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Post by monkeypretzel on Aug 31, 2021 14:07:02 GMT -5
The interesting thing about the word Gypsy is that because there are few Roma in America, Americans have a hard time believing anyone is offended by the term.
The Netflix revival exposed a lot of the English-speaking world to MST3K for the first time. For a lot of those people, it was something of a shock that a fairly family-friendly show was using a slur as a name for a main character,
It’s not the first time something like this has happened. When Green Lantern came out, the character named Killowog was something of a shock in the UK, where Wog is a slur against black people. Americans had no idea, so thought nothing of it.
Of course, Green Lantern was a huge flop, so it didn’t really matter. But Joel sure is… something? For making a change to not offend new fans as MST3K’s base grew.Why wasn't Gypsy's name changed for Season 12? If the name was offensive in Season 11, it remained offensive in Season 12. Because of an interview done in May 2017 where the issue of Gypsy's name being considered a slur was raised, we know that Joel knew then, yet two live tours, one Netflix season, and a six-issue run of comic books were produced before Joel changed Gypsy to GPC. Why the wait?
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Post by majorjoe23 on Aug 31, 2021 16:35:14 GMT -5
Some might say that it’s a good thing that he didn’t just change the second he heard about it, and looked into it a but instead of just having a knee jerk reaction.
It’s also possible it didn’t seem like a big thing in 2017, but two seasons of new fans from outside the US made him realize the name was more of an issue than he realized.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Aug 31, 2021 16:39:05 GMT -5
Apologies, I keep editing. Maybe I should delete this until I get it straight in my head. Maybe that's what Joel did, just tried to get it straight in his head. Wait, how do I delete a post, don't see that option (I'll get back to you)
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