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Post by Mighty Jack on Aug 31, 2021 16:56:56 GMT -5
Some might say that it’s a good thing that he didn’t just change the second he heard about it, and looked into it a but instead of just having a knee jerk reaction. It’s also possible it didn’t seem like a big thing in 2017, but two seasons of new fans from outside the US made him realize the name was more of an issue than he realized. That makes as much sense. Sure, monkeypretzels scenario might have some truth or the whole truth to it, or maybe it's not the truth at all, maybe Joel's not "trying" to look the hero, maybe he's just a man, a fallible regular person, full of the contradiction and foibles that come with being human. Maybe it's more the way majorjoe23 sizes it up, it took time, nothing sinister or calculated about it. I certainly wasn't sitting on Joel's shoulder the whole time, I'm not a mind reader or a soul reader. Hell, she's still Gypsy on my blog in those old 10 season write-ups. I'm aware it's considered a slur, I've known it for some time. Should I change it, should I go back and erase that name completely from my site, even though it's still heard on my old DVDs and on streams, and written that way in books? Why haven't I jumped on this sooner? Because it was intended as a name, because it was a word I've heard in movies, TV, and music my whole life, so it doesn't have the sting of a slur... but isn't that a weak excuse because it's stung/hurt someone. Granted, I'm small potatoes, who cares about my little blog, Joel has a much wider spotlight on him. So maybe he should have acted quicker, maybe, like me, it was a name with no mean intent and he had to wrap his mind around the bigger picture. Maybe this, maybe that. Maybe I don't know any more than any of us do.
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Post by BoB3K on Aug 31, 2021 17:20:01 GMT -5
A new theme song is almost a sure thing. I dunno about 3 though, that would be more work. Maybe just have all 3 hosts in the one theme song.
One can always hope for the best, but following along on news and updates, I feel it's a very good chance Season 13 is going to be a direct continuation of Season 12, new movies, maybe even smaller sets and skits, and even shorter and tighter eps, cuz as others have pointed out, it sure seems like it's what Joel thinks his modern fan base wants, and even that in his mind he still can grow MST3K to wider, broader audiences.
:shrug:
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Post by Megalon on Aug 31, 2021 20:09:32 GMT -5
The only prediction I disagree with is the one about the restoration of the third host segment. I think that's gone forever. There was something said during the Catalina Caper Endless Summer watch along, and sorry I can't remember who said this, about how long one of the host segments was, and how they would never write anything that long now. That leads into my one prediction: the episodes are going to be short, like Season 12 short, with the exception of the Gamera movie, because that's what Joel thinks people want. The kids have a shorter attention span now, right? So let's make the show shorter and tighter. If you take what he said at face value, about Netflix not giving them notes, and the decisions about how the Netflix show was made being his, then Season 13 should be more of what we've seen. Any significant differences will be interesting, and to me, surprising. Good point. I'll admit, I haven't watched any of the Kickstarter promotional videos or the livestream events, so I don't have the benefit of hearing what the creators are saying about the show unless it gets passed on here. My reason for thinking the middle host segment might be coming back, however, is based on the belief that Netflix had more sway over the show's format than Joel lets on. First, I think it's safe to say that Joel knew at the beginning of Season 12 that the show's relationship with Netflix was in trouble. He tried to pretend otherwise when presenting the 6-episode season to the fans, but it's obvious now that Netflix was signaling, if not outright communicating, the show's impending cancellation to Joel if the numbers didn't improve. I'd guess the show's middle host segment was removed as a result of this threat, whether Netflix suggested it themselves or the data did. Joel, trying to save the show, started tinkering with the format (something producers don't usually do except under threat of cancellation). Of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and if Joel thinks the shorter run-time was better for Netflix, then he'll probably think it's better for his own platform as well. And who knows, he might be right; audiences might well prefer a shorter run-time (every time it comes up here, people seem fairly divided on the issue). This prediction surprises me a little. Why do you think the show won't look good visually (by which I assume you mean it'll look worse than Season 11/12)? Oddly, this was also my first assumption, that the show's budget was going to be scaled back and the visuals would suffer as a result. But then I realized I had no basis for this assumption. As far as I know, Joel is putting the same amount of money into each Season 13 episode that he put into the episodes of Seasons 11/12. Is that not true? I haven't done the math on the Kickstarter money/# of episodes, so I really don't know.
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Post by BoB3K on Aug 31, 2021 22:11:56 GMT -5
This prediction surprises me a little. Why do you think the show won't look good visually (by which I assume you mean it'll look worse than Season 11/12)? Oddly, this was also my first assumption, that the show's budget was going to be scaled back and the visuals would suffer as a result. But then I realized I had no basis for this assumption. As far as I know, Joel is putting the same amount of money into each Season 13 episode that he put into the episodes of Seasons 11/12. Is that not true? I haven't done the math on the Kickstarter money/# of episodes, so I really don't know. I think this is one facet that anything is a guess until we see it. We all know how much money Joel got this time, but we also know there are various rumors and signs of how much was spent last time before production actually started, and we don't really know how much 'help' NetFlix gave them in actually making the show. This time, they are all on their own, but then they also have Season 11 and 12 under their belts. So, it could look the same, or it could be very much scaled down. We'll just have to wait and see. We do know they are filming in a completely new location, so other than maybe a few props, everything will be new/rebuilt for this next round.
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Post by wedestroymyths on Aug 31, 2021 23:49:21 GMT -5
With regards to the Netflix notes thing...I don't not believe that Netflix didn't give them notes. What I do think, though, is that Netflix has very clear metrics about renewal, and we know that Netflix prioritizes eyes on the screen and binging. And MST is not a very bingeable show (turkey day marathons excepted). So, while Netflix probably didn't give Joel notes asking for shorter episodes, I'm guessing the shorter runtimes were the result of Joel et al attempting to make a more Netflix friendly version of the show. So basically, they got "Netflix Notes" but in more of an inferred way.
And maybe I'm making this up, but I could swear I read or heard something from Joel during the Kickstarter that implied the runtimes would be a little more like the old days. Maybe it was just the Gamera news? I mean, if they're making one episode that long, why bother to hack the rest down to 70 minutes?
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Post by Diet Kolos on Sept 1, 2021 7:01:20 GMT -5
Maybe it was just the Gamera news? I mean, if they're making one episode that long, why bother to hack the rest down to 70 minutes? Because writing 83 minutes of jokes is hard! At least according to that one writer in that update. Won't somebody please think of those poor, overworked professional writers! Besides, they cram about 800+ jokes into 60-65 minutes of theater-time as it is, that's MORE than what they used to write back in the old days for ~75-80 minutes. And probably at twice the riff-per-minute rate. And as science has proven time and again, quantity is more important than quality. All right, now that I'm done being sarcastic... I just got a scary mental image of them riffng at 90 MPH, non-stop for 83 minutes over that Gamera movie. Under normal circumstances you would think that making the writers riff over a mostly unedited movie would make them change their own style of fast-paced non-stop riffs to reflect a more classic mode, simply because the act of saying AND hearing 83 minutes of double-barrel, breakneck jokes is exhausting... But we have to remember that: 1. There are multiple teams of writers. 2. The performers are not the writers. 3. Most likely the riffs will be edited in later, probably ad hoc in chunks, so any kind of natural speaking rhythm from the performers doesn't matter and jokes can be squeezed in via the editing. As far as my predictions...I have literally no idea. I'm hoping they take their time and finely craft each episode, one at a time, with the proper care they deserve and the end result is something rewatchable. But I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by monkeypretzel on Sept 1, 2021 11:44:54 GMT -5
(Other than the obvious quality issues with the way production is being done. These shows probably aren't going to look very good, visually.)
This prediction surprises me a little. Why do you think the show won't look good visually (by which I assume you mean it'll look worse than Season 11/12)?
Oddly, this was also my first assumption, that the show's budget was going to be scaled back and the visuals would suffer as a result. But then I realized I had no basis for this assumption. As far as I know, Joel is putting the same amount of money into each Season 13 episode that he put into the episodes of Seasons 11/12. Is that not true? I haven't done the math on the Kickstarter money/# of episodes, so I really don't know.
I'm basing this prediction on two things. The first is the MIGIZI shorts, and what Joel said about their reception. To me, the silhouettes did NOT look good, especially when they were going into and out of the theater, with the shapes moving awkwardly and rescaling in size due to the digital manipulation. Joel said in an update that he was very pleased with how the shorts came out, and that's why he feels that making the new season using the same methods will work. (Exact quote, in context (from Update #12):
That's why it's important to understand that – even in remote production – all of the riffing will be recorded in "real time," with all of our cast performing together in a virtual recording studio as they watch the movie and deliver their lines. They'll be able to hear and see each other and the movie, which will let them react and respond to each other, and really focus on the riffing.
As I mentioned, we used this method to riff three shorts last fall. We were really pleased with the way those came out, and as far as I know, everyone felt the riffing worked out great.
As long as we record all of the riffing in "real time", so that our actors can react to the movie and each other in a way that feels natural, there's not really any reason we need to be sitting in the same room.
If Joel continues to do visual gags with the silhouettes in theater, I also expect those to look awkward and not-quite-right, since it seems those would be done the same way as the MIGIZI silhouettes.
The second thing is Joel stating explicitly that "shooting will use a combination of greenscreen, props and small set pieces." No matter how good the greenscreen is, it's still greenscreen, and in Season 11 you could tell the difference between the segments filmed on sets and the segments filmed in front of greenscreens. Greenscreen segments just lack depth in the visual field, at least to me. Also it means that the actors can't really move around, off their marks, resulting in static framing and camera work that doesn't change angles or zooms. One of the few things I did like about Season 12 was that the camera seemed to have a little more movement than in most of Season 11's segments, with the exception of the large Moon 13 set pieces like the opening and the wedding, and in Season 12 the actors and puppets moved around on screen much more.
It's not the budget that's an issue in my view, it's the limitations of the production methods that Joel has explicitly stated he's using that make me believe the show just isn't going to look as good on our screens as the two Netflix seasons did.
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Post by majorjoe23 on Sept 2, 2021 22:08:18 GMT -5
Ivan makes it sound like things won’t be filmed all in one chunk. But that could still mean Cast A is all filmed in October, Cast B in November and Cast C in December, or something:
“ Don’t want to cut this short, by any means – but the cast likely won’t be available for another live watchalong series like this until next year, because we’ll be busy shooting new episodes throughout October, November and December… and the live cast is also heading out on tour!”
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Post by BoB3K on Sept 3, 2021 11:22:29 GMT -5
Yeah, it could mean either way. But, to me, the talk of writing them all before shooting is what points to them probably shooting in batches too. Add in that they've stated more than once that the writing/shooting order will not be the airing order, and it looks very likely that it will be mj32's guess that cast A (probably the live crew before going out on tour) will shoot all of theirs in one chunk, then bring in Cast B for their chunk, etc.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Sept 4, 2021 15:12:48 GMT -5
Apparently, during the Mindless Summer thing, they said the Gizmoplex is launching in "December or January, depending on how production goes and how disruptive COVID continues to be."
Which...seems like missing the optimal launch date of Turkey Day.
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Post by majorjoe23 on Sept 4, 2021 18:20:35 GMT -5
While Turkey Day would be ideal, I'm sure there will be the annual Turkey Day Marathon on Youtube/Twitch/Pluto. So if it has to launch after Turkey Day, they could at least use the marathon interstitials to promote the upcoming launch.
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Post by monkeypretzel on Sept 4, 2021 19:36:31 GMT -5
It was in the You Tube livestream chat last night, before the live stream started.
Question from user heathinvader: @mystery SCIENCE THEATER 3000 Is there a planned date yet as to when the Gizmoplex will be launching?
Answer: MYSTERY SCIENCE THEATER 3000 Still TBD. It will either be in December or January, depending on how production goes and how disruptive COVID continues to be. But not too much longer!
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Post by kracker on Sept 5, 2021 9:15:51 GMT -5
oof well Turkey Day is fairly close to December and they may just be giving us a safe deadline when nothing is certain and locked down but what's the holdup really? They said they'd have episodes done before the tour and they would just need the one premiere done for the launch and updates have been overly optimistic about how episode production is going. And if they are referring to Gizmoplex production, how would the logistics of getting the streaming service up be disrupted by COVID when every aspect of it is likely be done remotely or outsourced?
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Post by Megalon on Sept 5, 2021 10:50:44 GMT -5
It was 16 months between the first Kickstarter and the premiere of Season 11.
It was 19 months between the premiere of Season 11 and the premiere of Season 12.
Based on that record, I don't think we'll be seeing Season 13 or the Gizmoplex until 2022. It has only been 4 months since the Kickstarter ended.
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Post by BoB3K on Sept 5, 2021 11:36:35 GMT -5
oof well Turkey Day is fairly close to December and they may just be giving us a safe deadline when nothing is certain and locked down My guess -- Turkey Day is just going to be another marathon, probably with new stuff from the new cast(s) in between eps, and maybe some live stream watch-a-longs since that's apparently all the rage now. And then, at the end of the day, they will give THE BIG UPDATE which will just be the official date of the opening of the Gizmoplex, maybe with a few new pics and/or a trailer of some sort. That way they will be giving us something new for Turkey but don't actually have to have it done by Turkey Day. Which would still be kind of lame though. I agree with kracker-- just because the eps aren't ready, that's no reason to not have the Gizmoplex up and running and let people get signed up and in. Maybe even have the Turkey Day marathon through it. Not just that, but with it being outsourced and the (small) amount of money they are putting into it (like $160K), that sounds like something that the professional streaming service should have put together and up and running in a few weeks, maybe a month.
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