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Post by BoB3K on Sept 25, 2021 10:05:41 GMT -5
I came here to comment on the newest updates, but I notices there isn't really a thread for that and we've just been using other threads, so I thought I'd start one.
So, with the newest updates, it's pretty much all but confirmed that this one ep at a time thing means nothing beyond the release schedule. The writing is done...even though not a single ep has been made yet. Even the wording leaves me sad ... "with our writers submitting their final riffs". There was no writers room. This season looks to be shaping up the same as the last.
It was mentioned, as many guessed, there will be a new theme song, going back to the hosts singing it. They didn't say whether there would be more than one theme song for the multiple hosts. I guess no, but if not, that's going to be a busy opening sequence.
They also mention dates going into next Feb or March, without mentioning when the Gizmoplex will actually open...
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Post by Megalon on Sept 25, 2021 11:33:51 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know why Joel continues to use this production method. Is it simply because it's cheaper, or does he think that it has creative advantages? I wonder what the others think too.
According to the update, filming starts in two weeks (so, mid October), which leaves open the possibility of a 2021 premiere. But the fact that they're no longer talking about premiere dates makes me think that they've realized now that their initial estimate was overly optimistic and they're no longer sure if they'll make it inside the 2021 window.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Sept 25, 2021 13:17:06 GMT -5
I know Covid and multiple casts was thrown around to explain some of the divvied up shooting schedules. But I still don't get the point of writing it all before shooting starts. Maybe so they can have set shooting schedules without running the risk of not having an episode written by the time they need to shoot.
Maybe if they REFUSE to go strictly episodic (write-shoot-edit 1 episode at a time) maybe in future seasons they could break the episodes into cours and do 3 or 4 episodes at a time.
I just...don't understand the point of buying new production space for Alternaversal with more room for writing and producing the show...if it's still being made like it's a Netflix show being put together by an ad hoc writing troupe and a cast that doesn't have a full-time commitment.
Maybe this season is the weird in-between of the Netflix style and what they want to do in the future and once the Netflix cast is gone (I can't imagine they're sticking around long for this) and they have more flexibility in writing & shooting.
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Post by BoB3K on Sept 25, 2021 13:56:51 GMT -5
Maybe this season is the weird in-between of the Netflix style and what they want to do in the future and once the Netflix cast is gone (I can't imagine they're sticking around long for this) and they have more flexibility in writing & shooting. Yeah no one mentions this much at all even though it is an obvious conclusion to draw. It really has to be a pretty safe bet that this will be the last eps for Jonah, Kinga and Max. Although, when it comes to raising money on KS and stretch goals, never say never.
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Post by Megalon on Sept 25, 2021 14:53:13 GMT -5
Maybe this season is the weird in-between of the Netflix style and what they want to do in the future and once the Netflix cast is gone (I can't imagine they're sticking around long for this) and they have more flexibility in writing & shooting. Yeah no one mentions this much at all even though it is an obvious conclusion to draw. It really has to be a pretty safe bet that this will be the last eps for Jonah, Kinga and Max. Although, when it comes to raising money on KS and stretch goals, never say never. I had actually forgotten about this theory. I still think it's plausible, but the fact that they're recording a new intro with Jonah et al. makes me wonder.
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Post by kracker on Sept 25, 2021 19:51:19 GMT -5
I'd be curious to know why Joel continues to use this production method. Is it simply because it's cheaper, or does he think that it has creative advantages? I wonder what the others think too. According to the update, filming starts in two weeks (so, mid October), which leaves open the possibility of a 2021 premiere. But the fact that they're no longer talking about premiere dates makes me think that they've realized now that their initial estimate was overly optimistic and they're no longer sure if they'll make it inside the 2021 window. It does make sense to do batches rather than one at a time due to the fact that getting the actors together is harder these days. Back then it was easy because everyone was in Minnesota. Now everyone's spread out and has other gigs. So i can see them shooting as few as 6 eps at a time, twice a year post-KS. Getting cast together on a monthly basis for just one episode so they can release "when its done" just isn't going to be viable. They said filming is going from October 10th to the 30th (tour start) then they are doing a few weeks in November. They also said Feb is when they will shoot the last 'FEW' episodes. So that means 10 episodes shot in 2021. And would just have to get post done on one for a Gizmoplex launch to happen this year. And as mentioned, no word about the Gizmoplex. I think we need people to bug them about that instead of asking them 'why dont they riff Cats' so we can have an update with those answers instead. I think they just may be accounting for Murphy's Law instead of setting a launch date then risking having to drop the news of a delay in the updates.
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Post by monkeypretzel on Sept 25, 2021 20:15:13 GMT -5
Joel's intention is to make all future episodes/seasons of MST3K like he's making Season 13. He laid it out back in April, in Update #7. He feels that doing everything remotely, compositing shots, using green screen, filming in small groups at different locations, will bring the show back to its DIY roots, plus give them more creative freedom. It's also supposedly cheaper.
It doesn't explain why all the writing has to be done first, though. Some of these episodes will have been written and filmed almost a year before they're shown. Even Netflix didn't hold episodes more than six months.
I went back through the updates. The last mention of the Gizmoplex and how it was progressing was July 30th, when it was announced that the apps would only be for watching (and purchasing/renting) the Gizmoplex content, and anything interactive would have to be accessed through the website. Sometimes what is not said, says quite a bit.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Sept 25, 2021 21:16:51 GMT -5
Joel's intention is to make all future episodes/seasons of MST3K like he's making Season 13. He laid it out back in April, in Update #7. He feels that doing everything remotely, compositing shots, using green screen, filming in small groups at different locations, will bring the show back to its DIY roots, plus give them more creative freedom. It's also supposedly cheaper. I think the "cheaper" part is probably the real answer. If it WORKS, then the process won't matter, I suppose. That's what's important, the results. But if it FEELS like it's an assembly-line, workmanlike product that feels like it was shot over a few weekends and the compositing is awkward and distracting... We'll have to see.
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Post by kracker on Sept 26, 2021 13:50:16 GMT -5
It doesn't explain why all the writing has to be done first, though. Some of these episodes will have been written and filmed almost a year before they're shown. Even Netflix didn't hold episodes more than six months. Thought you wanted that. Getting all the writing done first leaves all that time for revisions and improvements. replace this joke with a better one, change out this for something better they thought up, basically allowing for a longer more through writing process. I dont know what their schedule is for next year but during that next year they need to work on episodes for Season 14 for all the continuing subscribers in 2023. So if they can work on episodes now, instead of waiting around, and for what, in order to create that time buffer they may need, then why not. Also they may be working on other content for the Gizmoplex besides new episodes, to further incentivize subscriptions, so they need to have time for that and make sure the episode production schedule is generous enough to allow for it.
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Post by monkeypretzel on Sept 26, 2021 18:30:15 GMT -5
I've never wanted an entire season worth of shows written in final script form, riffs and host segments, before the first frame of film is digitally captured. It isolates the shows from the fans, because any feedback sits for months or years before the next opportunity to write comes along, most of it forgotten and ignored. Filming in batches, maybe three or four episodes at a time, fine. But no, episodes should not be written several months ahead of time. As far as revisions go, I don't see them constantly going back to those scripts over the next four or five months to tweak them, at least not as a group.
In a way, I admire your optimism about the at this point entirely imaginary Season 14. I lost that sort of faith years ago. I think it's more likely that there will be no new content for the Gizmoplex beyond what this Kickstarter has paid for until there's another fundraiser, aside from watch-alongs and other live specials; maybe a few shorts here and there that can be made cheaply. If Joel is going to continue producing MST3K in batches, he's going to need an accumulation of money on hand to start pre-production. A lot of people interested in the Gizmoplex have already paid for their access to it in advance. Joel wanted $2 million to make three episodes and the Gizmoplex, taking 65% (the amount not needed for reward fulfillment, costs, etc.) of that would be $1.3 million. Take some more away from that for Gizmoplex startup costs, and allowing that props, equipment, costumes, etc. can be reused, and I'm going to be generous and say Joel probably needs about $350,000 to produce one episode, maybe it can be scraped down to 300K at a minimum. Ten dollars a month for the Gizmoplex, $120 a year, and you need 8,333 new full-paid subscriptions to the Gizmoplex to bring in $1,000,000. That doesn't sound like a lot of people, but remember that's without taking anything out for costs, and on top of the Backer subscriptions.
Joel's pay-as-you-go model that he sold during the Kickstarter, with revenues from the Gizmoplex paying for future content, works only if you have huge numbers of paying subscribers to the Gizmoplex FROM THE START, or if you make MST3K on a one episode at a time basis, which Joel seems resistant to. The thing is, that the remote production he's so hyped about is perfect for doing episodes one at a time, and a lot of fans thought that was how Season 13 was going to be made - it sure sounded like that.
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Post by BoB3K on Sept 27, 2021 11:02:25 GMT -5
Right, the big question will be how many non-KS-backers are going to use the Gizmoplex, because the KS backers will generate no revenues other than if they buy yet more merch.
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Post by kracker on Sept 27, 2021 19:37:40 GMT -5
yeah we went over that, over and over the KS backers resubscribe and fund the next year, it's not a lifetime pass :b And because no more KS, they would need less money. Those huge numbers of paying subscribers FROM THE START are the KS backers. You have additional backers coming in after the fact as well as post-launch subscribers. I know you don't think that anything you've brought up has crossed the minds of the producers, because they are dumb, so dumb, they are dumb. But I think ill trust the business people running their own business over the non-invested armchair accountants betting on this to fail. "In a way, I admire your optimism about the at this point entirely imaginary Season 14. I lost that sort of faith years ago" Yeah that same silly optimism said that this KS would be as successful as the last while everyone else was counting on it being a laughable colossal failure. And look what wound up happening. Now you wanna go double and nothing and bet that this is the last of MST3K because they aren't running their business the way you nostalgically want them to? The fact of the matter is with staff and cast all over the country now (with other jobs) rather than just in Hopkins Minnesota, getting everyone together every month just to do one episode rather than doing as many as they can in batches is just way more expensive. You'd think since you love crunching numbers you'd be mindful of that.
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Post by BoB3K on Sept 27, 2021 19:57:17 GMT -5
the KS backers resubscribe and fund the next year They only resubscribe after the year is up. They would be resubscribing to a Season 14...which would be made with the funds they would get from the next year of subscriptions, that they just got... So you're suggestion all the KS subscribers (and new subscribers) are going to stay on and resubscribe for a year of reruns while they go make season 14?...
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Post by kracker on Sept 27, 2021 20:15:50 GMT -5
nope that's your suggestion obviously. Is that really how you think it works? They make Season 14 while Season 13 is running, however way they can with the budget they have from the additional 18 months worth of revenue collection. Maybe they do make it one episode at time, since that's just so important to everyone, or do a batch because they can afford to, whatever schedule is obviously best for their business.
You do realize that the Gizmoplex isnt exactly the first content subscription service on the internet right? How does any content provider continue to produce content when the first subscribers are only funding the first batch of content? The online content industry is thriving yet somehow its the Gizmoplex that's destined for failure. Because all those producers somehow have no idea that they need to fund new episodes via the Gizmoplex and just aren't going to bother planning their business, is that the assumption we are making?
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Post by wedestroymyths on Sept 27, 2021 22:08:05 GMT -5
We probably talked about this in another thread during the Kickstarter, but I suspect the first year will see a few strategies to help keep the money coming in for the future. Some ideas I wouldn't be surprised to see:
1. Episode packs/deals to bring in revenue 2. Premium ticketed gizmoplex events. 3. Gizmoplex next year "subscription drives" with rewards-- if the Gizmoplex delivers, they won't have to go through Kickstarter anymore. 4. Merch sales/deals, perhaps including premium items, used props, etc...
If the Gizmoplex is a success, the show will be basically be fundraising for its future seasons year round, without the needed intensity of an annual Kickstarter, and hopefully with a bit more subtly. I wonder if the idea coming off the kickstarter was to bank a season's worth of episodes then get to work right away raising money for the next year.
Of course, the best way to ensure future seasons is to make sure season 13 is good enough to bring in new viewers (or bring back old viewers who skipped the Kickstarter)
Curious, here--do we know if the per episode cost includes the salaries of, not just the talent, but all the other employees who keep the company running?
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