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Post by cavedweller on Apr 15, 2022 20:23:58 GMT -5
Mike Nelson is the Neo of the MST3K universe. I have been watching MST3K since KTMA days, and never missed an episode. Before Mike Nelson the riffs were ok with a homerun or two per episode. Mike Nelson comes on board, or at least becomes head writer and guides the MST3K ship. Mike did not begin during season 5. He was there as head writer behind the scenes and played many characters like Torgo. When Mike became head writer the show was just funnier with many classic episodes and several homeruns an episode. In my youth I prefer Joel, and he is great, but looking at the history of the show you can see it was Mike who brought the laughs. Season 10 ended, and later season 11 was born, and without Mike because he was now at Rifftrax becoming such a great success. Now during series or seasons 11, 12, and now 13. The show is not as funny. When you look at the show before Mike and after Mike the show is not as funny and at times stale. I know many will disagree, but look at the history, and take a look at when MST3K was the funniest. Season 13 has not officially begun, but the episodes I have seen are not that funny and Jonah doesn't seem to hit his marks, and his acting skill during the skits are lackluster. I do like Heston, but he is nothing like the great Nelson. IMO and I believe I'm right, but you opinion is always wanted because I am interested in what you all think.
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Post by foreign object on Apr 16, 2022 7:50:29 GMT -5
I would agree as the Mike era with Dr.F and Frank will always be the pinnacle for me. However when Mike went to Rifftrax I found the riffing over time tended to be a little mean spirited and that's why I stopped buying it, and I did purchase a lot of Rifftrax. But as we're talking about MST3k, yeah Mike was the best but not so far above Joel that I didn't love all the Joel episodes. As for the reboot......no.
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Post by MikeSTZillak on Apr 16, 2022 13:16:27 GMT -5
Honestly, Mike's Comedy Central era (2nd half of Season 5-Season 7) has to be the best of MST3K. So many good episodes and skits.
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Post by comedyc on Apr 16, 2022 15:07:34 GMT -5
I feel that once everybody left, the quality took a nose dive with Season 8. It's not juts one member that's magic, it's all of them working together that's gold. That's The Beatles.
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Post by BoB3K on Apr 18, 2022 11:06:57 GMT -5
Honestly, Mike's Comedy Central era (2nd half of Season 5-Season 7) has to be the best of MST3K. So many good episodes and skits. I would argue that 3 and 4 are as good as 5 and 6. The whole, Mike made the show better thing is kind of silly as Mike was there from season 2 on. The head writer thing is also overblown. Mike himself has stated that the title mostly meant he was the one that wrote down and collated all the jokes, the joke being if I recall that he was the only one that knew how to type or the only one with a mac or something like that. I will whole heartedly agree with comdyc though, it was all of them together. Seasons 2-6, you can feel Joel's creativity, and Mike's music and Frank's deep references and Trace's all around pure comedy talent...and Mary Jo and Paul Chaplin and Bridget Nelson and Kevin Murphy's everpresence. I like the SciFi years but you really can tell that although sometimes funnier, the show as a whole got a little narrower? thinner? flatter? I dunno, it's there. And then yes RiffTrax is fun, but it's no golden era MST3K. And new MST3K? I'm not sure it is anything anymore.
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Post by dudehitscar on Apr 18, 2022 13:09:02 GMT -5
SCI FI ERA > Seasons 3-5(JOEL) > Rifftrax Live VODs > Seasons 5-7 (Mike) > KTMA > Season 2 > Season 1
quality of the other Rifftax VODs are so inconsistent and I haven't seen a ton of them so it's hard to rank..
other random thoughts:
head writer doesn't mean as much as the mike fanboys like to think it does.
I like mike's character acting more than his host segment self.
Season 6 is a low point of the Mike era. Painful for me and for Mike(based on the interviews regarding his problems with headaches and his disgust with the films from that season).
His host segment self seemed a lot more naïve and slow witted than his theater self. The disconnect always seemed a bit weird to me.
Mike is the funniest host riffer ever.
overall I think Kevin Murphy is the MVP of the MST3K (despite how much I don't like Bobo).
Mike was my first and only host for years before high speed internet came around and I discovered the CC era/Joel/etc. I love the guy and I doubt I would as big of a fan of the show as I am without his involvement.
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Post by BoB3K on Apr 18, 2022 13:42:21 GMT -5
Mike was my first and only host for years before high speed internet came around and I discovered the CC era/Joel/etc. I love the guy and I doubt I would as big of a fan of the show as I am without his involvement. It (almost) always comes down to this. I discovered MST3K in college when it was on season 5, but repeating seasons 1-4 EVERY midnight. Joel is the first true (and maybe not funniest, but funnest) host to me. And, I bet there is some wackadoodle, get off my lawn, punk kid out there that only knows MST3K from stumbling onto it on his parents NetFlix account and Jonah is and always will be his favorite host. Oh, and MVP -- I love Kevin (and bobo), but I gotta give it to Trace. Dr F, original Crow, and just his fantastic comedic timing, impersonations, puppeteering.
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Post by majorjoe23 on Apr 18, 2022 14:27:23 GMT -5
Mike was my first and only host for years before high speed internet came around and I discovered the CC era/Joel/etc. I love the guy and I doubt I would as big of a fan of the show as I am without his involvement. It (almost) always comes down to this. I discovered MST3K in college when it was on season 5, but repeating seasons 1-4 EVERY midnight. Joel is the first true (and maybe not funniest, but funnest) host to me. And, I bet there is some wackadoodle, get off my lawn, punk kid out there that only knows MST3K from stumbling onto it on his parents NetFlix account and Jonah is and always will be his favorite host. Oh, and MVP -- I love Kevin (and bobo), but I gotta give it to Trace. Dr F, original Crow, and just his fantastic comedic timing, impersonations, puppeteering. When my dad introduced me to MST3K, he showed me his favorite Joel episode followed by his favorite Mike episode, which helped me accept them both right away. But at the time the only Mads were Trace and Frank, so I've always viewed them as the "best" Mads over Pearl, Bob and Brain Guy. Not that I mind them, they just don't measure up to the originals.
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Post by dudehitscar on Apr 18, 2022 15:28:11 GMT -5
It (almost) always comes down to this. I discovered MST3K in college when it was on season 5, but repeating seasons 1-4 EVERY midnight. Joel is the first true (and maybe not funniest, but funnest) host to me. And, I bet there is some wackadoodle, get off my lawn, punk kid out there that only knows MST3K from stumbling onto it on his parents NetFlix account and Jonah is and always will be his favorite host. Oh, and MVP -- I love Kevin (and bobo), but I gotta give it to Trace. Dr F, original Crow, and just his fantastic comedic timing, impersonations, puppeteering. When my dad introduced me to MST3K, he showed me his favorite Joel episode followed by his favorite Mike episode, which helped me accept them both right away. But at the time the only Mads were Trace and Frank, so I've always viewed them as the "best" Mads over Pearl, Bob and Brain Guy. Not that I mind them, they just don't measure up to the originals. I wish I loved Dr. F like everyone else seems to. Just don't dig him much. Frank is great. Love Trace as Crow though. Pearl is the GOAT mad IMO.
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Post by dudehitscar on Apr 18, 2022 15:31:41 GMT -5
Mike was my first and only host for years before high speed internet came around and I discovered the CC era/Joel/etc. I love the guy and I doubt I would as big of a fan of the show as I am without his involvement. It (almost) always comes down to this. I discovered MST3K in college when it was on season 5, but repeating seasons 1-4 EVERY midnight. Joel is the first true (and maybe not funniest, but funnest) host to me. And, I bet there is some wackadoodle, get off my lawn, punk kid out there that only knows MST3K from stumbling onto it on his parents NetFlix account and Jonah is and always will be his favorite host. Oh, and MVP -- I love Kevin (and bobo), but I gotta give it to Trace. Dr F, original Crow, and just his fantastic comedic timing, impersonations, puppeteering. I hear ya. and my teenager's favorite host and servo is from Netflix era. He had seen a lot of the older seasons prior though.
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Post by cavedweller on Apr 18, 2022 21:22:10 GMT -5
I would agree as the Mike era with Dr.F and Frank will always be the pinnacle for me. However when Mike went to Rifftrax I found the riffing over time tended to be a little mean spirited and that's why I stopped buying it, and I did purchase a lot of Rifftrax. But as we're talking about MST3k, yeah Mike was the best but not so far above Joel that I didn't love all the Joel episodes. As for the reboot......no. I agree with you, especially thankful you brought up the pinnacle was with Dr. F, and later once Dr. F left the show I basically would go get snacks during the Pearl scenes. The riffing alone is great though. I like Rifftrax, but not as much as MST3K. I do like the more adult edge of Rifftrax.
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Post by cavedweller on Apr 18, 2022 21:24:43 GMT -5
Honestly, Mike's Comedy Central era (2nd half of Season 5-Season 7) has to be the best of MST3K. So many good episodes and skits. I would argue that 3 and 4 are as good as 5 and 6. The whole, Mike made the show better thing is kind of silly as Mike was there from season 2 on. The head writer thing is also overblown. Mike himself has stated that the title mostly meant he was the one that wrote down and collated all the jokes, the joke being if I recall that he was the only one that knew how to type or the only one with a mac or something like that. I will whole heartedly agree with comdyc though, it was all of them together. Seasons 2-6, you can feel Joel's creativity, and Mike's music and Frank's deep references and Trace's all around pure comedy talent...and Mary Jo and Paul Chaplin and Bridget Nelson and Kevin Murphy's everpresence. I like the SciFi years but you really can tell that although sometimes funnier, the show as a whole got a little narrower? thinner? flatter? I dunno, it's there. And then yes RiffTrax is fun, but it's no golden era MST3K. And new MST3K? I'm not sure it is anything anymore. Good we all agree that before season 2 was a bit stale before Mike, and back to stale after Mike.
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Post by BoB3K on Apr 18, 2022 23:45:56 GMT -5
I wish I loved Dr. F like everyone else seems to. Just don't dig him much. Frank is great. Love Trace as Crow though. Pearl is the GOAT mad IMO. I think comparing mads is harder than comparing hosts. all the hosts essentially are playing the same part/role, whereas the mads had similar but different dynamics. I though Frank and Trace nailed their dynamic. But then I think Pearl, Bobo and Brain Guy (by season 9) had nailed their dynamic.
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Post by dudehitscar on Apr 19, 2022 9:51:02 GMT -5
I wish I loved Dr. F like everyone else seems to. Just don't dig him much. Frank is great. Love Trace as Crow though. Pearl is the GOAT mad IMO. I think comparing mads is harder than comparing hosts. all the hosts essentially are playing the same part/role, whereas the mads had similar but different dynamics. I though Frank and Trace nailed their dynamic. But then I think Pearl, Bobo and Brain Guy (by season 9) had nailed their dynamic. I hear ya. What did you think of Josh?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2022 10:31:17 GMT -5
Good we all agree that before season 2 was a bit stale before Mike, and back to stale after Mike. Seasons 2 and 3 are actually my favorites. I'm just slightly too young to have seen the show on its original Comedy Channel/Comedy Central run (to say nothing of KTMA), and I didn't get Sci-Fi in my area until after the show had been cancelled. So my introduction to the show is a little unique: The Movie. I started watching the show in (dwindling) reruns on Sci-Fi around 2001 and I never saw a Joel episode at all until Rhino's "The Essentials" was released. After my first complete watch-thru of the show in 2010, the Comedy Central Mike era was definitively my favorite era. Mike was my favorite of the hosts. That changed a few years ago when I finally re-watched most of the Joel era (all but KTMA) via Shout! TV. Something clicked with those episodes for me, especially the earlier, rougher seasons. I realized I preferred the dynamic between Joel and Trace and Kevin. I also prefer the way they responded to the movies in the second and third seasons. Seasons 2 and 3 just feel the most comfortable to me, like I'm at home watching cheesy movies with friends. Are the host segments or riffing as polished as they later were? No, but to me they feel more sincere. I agree with the consensus that Season 1 isn't nearly as funny as what was to come. But I don't think it's as unwatchable as many fans seem to. IMO, the only S1 episodes that are a chore are 101-103, and 105-107, although there are some good moments in all of those. Btw, Mike was involved with the show beginning with the move to cable. He's credited as a writer in all Season 1 episodes and gets the "Head Writer" credit beginning with 201. So "before Mike" (BM?) is only KTMA.
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