1303-Beyond Atlantis Post-Premiere Discussion Thread

[Diet Kolos]

This is the thread to be used for 1303-Beyond Atlantis AFTER its premiered on Gizmoplex. This is for discussion and review of the episode.

For live reactions to the premiere, use the designated thread.

[cavedweller]

"Beyond Atlantis" just finished and I am a bit appalled. Kelsey being Crow is a big no for me. Emily is very funny and enjoyed her as I knew I would since seeing her live. Emily, I like better than Jonah, and I think you get rid of Jonah and place Emily with Jonah's VOA's for episodes. That would be the best hosting mix. Kelsey has to go, I am sorry. I had trouble staying awake for Beyond Atlantis. I have not fallen asleep to an episode since "Monster A-Go-Go." Emily made this the best episode of season 13 so far. It's tough because Emily is the best thing of this season so far, and Kelsey is the worst thing to happen to MST3K. Am I being too harsh, IMO? I think the core root of the problem with the Gizmoplex is producer Matt McGinnis. You can tell he is new to this role as he paid his way to produce as a high Kickstarter donor. I don't think this is how the crew should be involved. You need a professional producer for such a great show. So many fumbles this year, but I am happy that I can buy old episodes and watch them on the Gizmoplex. Am I the only one with complaints? I probably shouldn't hold the new episodes to the high expectations and standards of the classic episodes and just try to look at them as something completely different. Like the theme song, it's just a show, but it's a show I want to see succeed. I just don't think they have mojo right now. The episode was just a notch below average with Emily saving the episode from complete disaster. I am looking forward to the future with skepticism. I think most people on this discussion board would make better riff writers for the show than who they have hired.

[dudehitscar]

Kesley seems great and she definitely captured the manic energy of crow.

But I couldn’t shake it… it sounds too much like someone doing a Milhouse impression (my favorite Simpsons character).

The riffing often has the characters doing fake voices a lot but it’s varied and not every time… this felt like someone doing a ‘milhouse voice riff’ throughout the entire episode. It was so grating to the point of me wanting to turn it off.

It didn’t help that the commercial break segments had hampton in them and then I had to readjust each time.

I’m glad others here seem to have enjoyed it. But I needed to express my thoughts on it. I hope y’all know it comes from a place of love.

Some huge positives:

I love Connor as tom… I feel like he brings elements of what I like about Baron and Kevin’s Tom well while also being his own bot.

Emily’s riffing presence was excellent. Loved her in the theater. She was good outside the theater too but it felt a little too rehearsed and like ‘acting’. I would encourage her to keep developing that side and get a bit looser with it.

The writing on this episode seemed really creative and varied… pulling from a lot of different sources and strong ambitious host segments. Pacing seemed a bit faster than El Santo but not bad.

The editing on the interactions between Emily and The Mads/Jonah was pretty rough. Didn’t line up well.

I like how the Mads base was rotating. That added A LOT of much needed depth to their space.

The dog asking what emily smells like was cute as heck.

Other thoughts:
I don’t want commercial breaks for a livestream event that I paid for. I could live with it during the intermission but not breaking up the episode like that. If you want more places to put commercials then I suggest one at the start of the stream, one or two in the intermission, and one at the end of the episode before the Q/A.

Having Pearl introduce each commercial as a skit is also not working. Having her do it once during intermission could work but broken up like that was just too much.

It’s such a disappointing waste of Mary Jo’s Pearl character.

The audio levels were still off by an unforgivable amount IMO. I had headphones on and tried it with the ‘nighttime mode’ and without. Pulled up my sound level meter while watching the episode and it confirmed yet again the huge difference in volume levels between the quiet dialogue in certain scenes and the riffing. To make sure it wasn’t my settings I jumped over to youtube to check out a Season 8 episode. An old black and white one (pretty sure it was 802). Sure enough the riffing and movie were mixed just fine there and my sound meter confirmed it.

Between my frustrations with that not being solved and Kesley’s voice I can’t say I enjoyed the episode overall which makes me sad cause it had a lot of other things going for it.

I’ll try it again after the public launch and see how it lands.

[demoniclambertobava]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I rarely have any of the audio level trouble people mention on either my Roku TV or my Macbook Air. I don't have any kind of funky audio setup situation going either. I haven't played the app very long on my iPhone to test that.

I think it's the best episode of the season so far, which is a remarkable feat for a first-time on-camera crew (as opposed to onstage). Santo and Robot Wars were good but had their riffing peaks and valleys, but the touring seasoning with these folks came through very strong and the riffing never flagged for me, even as the movie began to drag. Not to say Jonah and co. aren't quite seasoned at this point, but there's a somewhat different sensibility plus this team didn't have to deal with the Netflix riffing speeds prior to this. There's also less of the fondness for the constructed multi-part riffs I don't think often work well. There's been much less of those this year so far which I am grateful for, but this team doesn't seem to bother with many at all.

Brady's Crow is a big change, and took some settling into for me in the theater simply with the presence of two higher voices. But she soon started getting some very strong riffing in and I adjusted pretty fast. It was gratifying to see that happen for fans live too even at places like Reddit, not exactly known for its nuanced moderation. All I care about at the end of the day is that a riffer is funny. The childish, Bart Simpson/Nelson Muntz edge to Baker's work-in-progress Crow-voice also works for me in that it harkens a bit back to Trace's more childlike/goofy and less embittered Crow, something Hampton Yount hits even stronger. As Trace will always be the optimum Crow for me, this makes me happy. She will adjust and perfect the voice, but it was good work in the theater with the riffs and that's what matters most.

No notes on Emily or the new Servo (Conor?). Excellent. Emily is a natural and the host segments soared. I've never seen her do more than 10-15 minutes before either, to be clear, so I am not coming in pre-biased. It wasn't quite as much of a sea change from Jonah as the immediately sharper and more witty energy of Mike's introduction to the theater was from Joel, and I loved, loved, loved Mike and that contrast from the first moment I watched him do his thing as a kid, which made him my favorite host very quickly. But Emily didn't need to reinvent the wheel or be dramatically contrasted, she was just very witty and very good. It may never happen but I think Emily and Mike together would be very interesting.

Very happy with this one. As for commercials, it's whatever for me - they're part of the livestream, and they took maybe a minute tops this time which I think is a structure people seemed happier with. I also don't know how much they had Mary Jo available for, and I doubt it's the last we'll see of Pearl, so I am not fussed about it.

[kracker]

I'm going to give this episode another chance later. Maybe ill wait until the public premiere. I like the new cast and find Kelsey absolutely charming but she wasn't delivering as Crow. I found both her and, in instances, Emily not really delivering their jokes as comedians which is really the key to performing on MST3K. Kelsey didn't have the attitude that Crow was supposed to have and instead had more of this caricatured childlike innocence which kept me thinking this was some kind of host bit where Crow's voice was possessed.

I'm going off the assumption that Kelsey was indeed dubbed in, it would definitely explain how the jokes came off. It indeed sounds like the jokes were prepared and honed for someone else but then replaced, snarky jokes but now without the snarky voice.

And i don't get it. The thing that was being bitched and moaned about the most in this forum was the practice of the actors NOT riffing together and thus things coming off stiff as hell and the utter fear of that being the case this season and this is a completely blatant instance of that, yet its 'the best episode'. I'm totally in bizarro world here now.

No idea wtf happened but I wish they would have just left Nate's work in for the season (after all he did work so they did pay him) and given Kelsey time to prepare for taking over the next one and fully develop her version of the role. Very unprecedented that they would go through this much trouble to essentially erase an obviously talented actor from existence. Closest I can think of is when they replaced Unknown Henson on Squidbillies with Tracy Morgan with no explanation just to give the series a finale after Henson made racist remarks. But even they didn't just scrub his work out.

[demoniclambertobava]

Apr 30, 2022 2:59:50 GMT -5 kracker said:

And i don't get it. The thing that was being bitched and moaned about the most in this forum was the practice of the actors NOT riffing together and thus things coming off stiff as hell and the utter fear of that being the case this season and this is a completely blatant instance of that, yet its 'the best episode'.

LOL, I never complained about that personally. I didn't have the major problems with the riffing in the last two seasons that some did, though I did think they had issues with rhythm and overly scripted riffs which have improved.

People can feel how they feel, I felt it was really strong. Other forums seem to like it, so far in this thread I'm apparently the minority - I don't stress it.

A few more thoughts since I added to it for my official forum post:

"Mothercrabber" is a) an instant series classic and b) a legit bop. I think they've changed the door sequence a bit too. It's a bit less obviously flat and fake, but I may be imagining things.

Lipsync is def off on the first Mads segment again, at least in the stream replay. I don't remember it being that bad when I first watched it live. Also def had some of that brief video lag, once early on and near the end.

[Diet Kolos]

Alright, just finished.

Visually, things are starting to come together. The intro looks better (and sounds what with Conor as Servo). The hallway looks better. Better audio synch, though that may be because its a recording. Sound mix is still...slightly off. Its about 80% better than it was in 1301 between the riffs and movie, but the commercials are VERY loud compared to the actual episode.
I THINK I like the commercials as...actual commercials between theater bits. Having Jonah do them in an Emily episode is odd, though, thematically.
Also, can they please do SOMETHING else with Mary Jo? Having her hock third-rate internet products during ad breaks is frankly beneath her talents.

Still the annoying split-up Segment 3. No more intermission for intermission sign, but because that's how they shot it, its still split up.

The host segments weren't as strong as last week, I feel. I liked the Prologue, Emily's intro in Segment 1, and Segment 2 with the dirtbag SAT's. Segment 3 lost me towards the end, and Jonah's sudden appearance felt tacked on. Segment 4 was just MORE of Segment 2 essentially and it felt like it went on too long. Segment 5...I liked it at first, but the crab rap kept going and going and going.

But the riffing! Substance-wise, some of the best riffing since Season 10. Perfect mix of observation, obscure references, etc. No major instances of those lazy nerd culture jokes. No run-on riffing "bits".
But most important, very funny. I laughed out loud a few times. It slowed down a bit towards the end, but not drastically.

Emily is an ok host so far. He riff delivery may be better than Jonah's. More natural. She has a fairly deep voice for a woman, vaguely reminiscent of Mary Jo in her range. Her acting in host-segments is so-so, but its only an episode's worth so far, so who knows.

Conor is a GOOD Servo. He's kind of a compromise between Kevin and Baron's Servo. His voice is fairly similar to Baron's, but slightly deeper. And some of his inflections remind me of Baron, but much more restrained. He doesn't kill jokes by going OVER THE TOP like Baron has a habit of doing.

KAB and Crow....its very reminiscent of...a manic, EXTREME cartoon rabbit trying to sell you a sugar cereal. "AND IT'S ALL PART OF A NUTRITOUS BREAKFAST!" I can hear it say as it rides off on a skateboard. I get why some people are saying Milhouse, but its even cartoon-ier than that. And it sounds WRONG because Emily and Conor are just...talking normally most of the time when they riff.
Its like every third riff is read by an excited animated squirrel. Very jarring. I "got used to it" by the end of the episode, but I still am not fond of it.

Her voice is clearly naturally higher than Emily's. I think if she just spoke normally, it would be pretty easy to distinguish the two. She could be the Bridgett to Emily's Mary Jo.

I'm not sure how they ADR'd her voice. Whether they just re-did HER lines, or all 3's lines were re-done. I'm guessing it was the latter. I say that because the riffing didn't feel as...LIVE as 1301 or 1302's did. It felt very Season 12, pre-recorded and laid in later. Kind of stiff. Vaguely unnatural. Which is a shame because the riffs were very good, and overall the riffing remained very good, even in spite of it.

I don't know. If they could get Conor's Servo and Hampton's Crow together once, I think it'd be a pretty great result.

A good episode, probably the best of the season so far, just a few annoying quibbles and oddities they need to sort out still.

[demoniclambertobava]

I think KAB was modulating by the end (or perhaps just forgetting to put the voice on as much, but she also had many 'in-character' riffs as movie characters). I do think it works better in her normal voice, but her riffing was so good I wasn't that fazed. I don't think Crow shouldn't have some form of nasal/androgynous quality, so hopefully there is some happy medium.

I do think Conor's Servo is less tryhard than Baron's early one was and at times still is. I like Baron's work, but I think he's still chasing Kevin Murphy at times vocally. He can't do Kevin.

I think Emily is excellent and "Mothercrabber" is an all timer though.

[monkeypretzel]

Someone on Reddit said that in the after-show, they confirmed that they reshot the Emily segments that had been previously filmed with Nate, with Kelsey. I am a little skeptical about that, because of the added cost they would have incurred doing so. Can anyone who has seen the after-show confirm this, or did the Reddit poster misunderstand and get confused between the extra Emily material and Joel episodes that were filmed in February after the tour ended and the Emily episodes filmed in October, before the tour started?

The Reddit post:
"They actually went back and re-filmed everything after the tour after Nate left. If you watch the Q&A after ep 3, they all mention the whirlwind filming they had to do after tour and how Kelsey stepped up to it. There's also photos of Kelsey filming with the crew. There's rights issues with re-using film that you shoot and re-dubbing with a new voice, they would have had to pay Nate and depending on how bad the parting was, they may not have wanted to do that.

Also it's kind of shitty to put that all on Kelsey, as she was the tour's understudy and she stepped in for Nate when he went on paternity leave in November and then when he apparently left again at the end of the tour. She's been with this crew for a while now and is not a recent addition. The voice is taking some getting used to. But so did Bill's voice and he's just as loveable as Trace."

[majorjoe23]

I don’t remember them mentioning anything about refilming stuff. The whirlwind could have very well just been the filming of the Joel episodes, which happened after the tour.

[Diet Kolos]

Didn't they already pay Nate to shoot his stuff? Or are they referring to residuals. I know its a union operation.

That seems...not ideal. Still need to see the credits to see if Nate is credited AT ALL.
Because re-filming ALL of the segments of the 5 non-Joel episodes Nate presumably filmed would be a colossal money & time sink. To the point that it'd probably be cheaper to just pay Nate residuals on the footage.

[demoniclambertobava]

Until I hear otherwise (and I have not watched the BTS segment yet) I'm going to assume it's simply Baker redubbing over Begle puppeteering for the bulk of her episodes. I would assume they will credit him if it is him.

[dudehitscar]

Apr 30, 2022 21:10:17 GMT -5 majorjoe23 said:

I don’t remember them mentioning anything about refilming stuff. The whirlwind could have very well just been the filming of the Joel episodes, which happened after the tour.

I've watched the Q and A twice..    I don't recall them saying they reshot the segments with kesley doing the puppeteering.

[dudehitscar]

Apr 30, 2022 19:12:57 GMT -5 Diet Kolos said:

Alright, just finished.

Visually, things are starting to come together. The intro looks better (and sounds what with Conor as Servo). The hallway looks better. Better audio synch, though that may be because its a recording. Sound mix is still...slightly off. Its about 80% better than it was in 1301 between the riffs and movie, but the commercials are VERY loud compared to the actual episode.
I THINK I like the commercials as...actual commercials between theater bits. Having Jonah do them in an Emily episode is odd, though, thematically.
Also, can they please do SOMETHING else with Mary Jo? Having her hock third-rate internet products during ad breaks is frankly beneath her talents.

Still the annoying split-up Segment 3. No more intermission for intermission sign, but because that's how they shot it, its still split up.

The host segments weren't as strong as last week, I feel. I liked the Prologue, Emily's intro in Segment 1, and Segment 2 with the dirtbag SAT's. Segment 3 lost me towards the end, and Jonah's sudden appearance felt tacked on. Segment 4 was just MORE of Segment 2 essentially and it felt like it went on too long. Segment 5...I liked it at first, but the crab rap kept going and going and going.

But the riffing! Substance-wise, some of the best riffing since Season 10. Perfect mix of observation, obscure references, etc. No major instances of those lazy nerd culture jokes. No run-on riffing "bits".
But most important, very funny. I laughed out loud a few times. It slowed down a bit towards the end, but not drastically.

Emily is an ok host so far. He riff delivery may be better than Jonah's. More natural. She has a fairly deep voice for a woman, vaguely reminiscent of Mary Jo in her range. Her acting in host-segments is so-so, but its only an episode's worth so far, so who knows.

Conor is a GOOD Servo. He's kind of a compromise between Kevin and Baron's Servo. His voice is fairly similar to Baron's, but slightly deeper. And some of his inflections remind me of Baron, but much more restrained. He doesn't kill jokes by going OVER THE TOP like Baron has a habit of doing.

KAB and Crow....its very reminiscent of...a manic, EXTREME cartoon rabbit trying to sell you a sugar cereal. "AND IT'S ALL PART OF A NUTRITOUS BREAKFAST!" I can hear it say as it rides off on a skateboard. I get why some people are saying Milhouse, but its even cartoon-ier than that. And it sounds WRONG because Emily and Conor are just...talking normally most of the time when they riff.
Its like every third riff is read by an excited animated squirrel. Very jarring. I "got used to it" by the end of the episode, but I still am not fond of it.

Her voice is clearly naturally higher than Emily's. I think if she just spoke normally, it would be pretty easy to distinguish the two. She could be the Bridgett to Emily's Mary Jo.

I'm not sure how they ADR'd her voice. Whether they just re-did HER lines, or all 3's lines were re-done. I'm guessing it was the latter. I say that because the riffing didn't feel as...LIVE as 1301 or 1302's did. It felt very Season 12, pre-recorded and laid in later. Kind of stiff. Vaguely unnatural. Which is a shame because the riffs were very good, and overall the riffing remained very good, even in spite of it.

I don't know. If they could get Conor's Servo and Hampton's Crow together once, I think it'd be a pretty great result.

A good episode, probably the best of the season so far, just a few annoying quibbles and oddities they need to sort out still.





how did the film editing feel to you?   The movie is over 90 mins.   

[Diet Kolos]

Better this time than with Santo. I think because they incorporated the film breaks at the awkward edit points. So its not as jarring when the scenes wildly switch because the edit came during an ad break.

It SEEMED like there was a little something missing in the middle, but no essential plot I could determine was cut out. If I had to guess they trimmed a lot of diving scenes.