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Post by comedyc on Jun 16, 2022 0:18:43 GMT -5
I haven't been overly impressed with MST3k since season 7. I don't expect to be, either. I just want a mild diversion for ninety minutes with the new stuff. I'm not looking to replace the old stuff, which I watch basically on loop. There's no episode from season 1-7 I don't enjoy. With the new stuff, it's just nice to pepper it in to the mix, along with occasional RiffTrax and The Mads. Cinematic Titanic visits from time to time. I see The Film Crew every now and then. Sometimes, I just feel like watching one of the various Q&As. Synthia's Selects are a fun twist on the Jack Perkins Hour bits. Yeah, it's a good time to be a MSTie. So much going on. But I'm not expecting any new classics.
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Post by BoB3K on Jun 16, 2022 11:04:16 GMT -5
But that wasn't really an option considering she's stepping into the role post-production to replace Nate. Was it though? What was the reason they had to replace him immediately. As far as I know, no criminal charges have been brought against the guy. It's just another piece of this nuMST3K that is just wildly off / distracting / fun-sucking.
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Post by kracker on Jun 16, 2022 13:37:05 GMT -5
Still a mystery. I can't think of a worst case scenario where they had to erase Nate from the work they've done, when said scenario is successfully being hidden from the public, but still allowed him to finish out the tour. They could have very well just ignored the fact that Emily's Crow actor is no longer on the show just like they are doing now and the explanation of Nate moving on would have very well satisfied everyone.
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Post by wedestroymyths on Jun 16, 2022 16:39:16 GMT -5
But that wasn't really an option considering she's stepping into the role post-production to replace Nate. Was it though? What was the reason they had to replace him immediately. As far as I know, no criminal charges have been brought against the guy. It's just another piece of this nuMST3K that is just wildly off / distracting / fun-sucking. I think it's a safe assumption that something severe happened, due to the trouble that's gone into both keeping it quiet and and the trouble/expense of replacing him. And the fact that we don't know what the severe thing was makes it seem an awful lot like Nate either did something very bad, or was exhibiting a pattern of behavior that could lead to something very bad making him a liability to the show's legacy. If we ever learn what happened, and it's anything other than Nate Begle behaving badly, I'll be very surprised.
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Post by kracker on Jun 16, 2022 17:23:28 GMT -5
if something severe happened though, why did he finish out the tour.
And why is his voice work on the show the thing that's problematic?
Really if they were so intent on keeping this quiet, they would have gone on like nothing happened and no one would think to ask, but this just raises more questions instead by making it a missing persons case.
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Post by wedestroymyths on Jun 17, 2022 1:30:26 GMT -5
if something severe happened though, why did he finish out the tour. And why is his voice work on the show the thing that's problematic? Really if they were so intent on keeping this quiet, they would have gone on like nothing happened and no one would think to ask, but this just raises more questions instead by making it a missing persons case. The tour ended in February? Am I remembering correctly? It's entirely possible that something happened or came to light as the tour was winding down, or between the end of the tour and the start of the show. As for the voice work being problematic, that's not the issue. It's about affiliation. Think about Ansel Elgort and West Side Story...he was credibly accused of inappropriate relations of a sexual nature with minors, but this didn't come to light until the film was in the can, waiting for pandemic to ebb for release. That's a Spielberg production with Disney involvement, a huge deal film--and its release was tainted by Elgort's involvement, despite the fact that plenty of normies in the mainstream had no idea he'd been accused of anything. The enthusiasm for the film was marred by his behavior. Now think of Kevin Spacey replaced in Ridley Scott's All the Money In the World (Scott reshot Spacey's scenes!), or Tig Notaro replaceing Chris D'Elia in Zak Snyder's Army of the Dead. Filmmakers and media companies know that audiences will quite possibly boycott or at least react badly to media released featuring known abusers (or those who engage in other problematic behavior--look at the reaction to J.K. Rowling's TERFdom, Jussie Smollet's fake attack, etc...) This is why some folks think something bad happened, or the show's team caught something bad before it could happen, leading them to cut ties before the behavior could potentially tank the whole show. The theory here has nothing to do with the voice performance itself, and everything to do with protecting the MST brand by excising a problematic person before bad behavior could harm the show and the way fans feel about it. As for the keeping things quiet and folks wouldn't think to ask--that's just not how these things work, at least not anymore. If a member of a cast of anything crosses certain lines, there are consequences (another example: Chevy Chase on Community). With a family friendly property, there's going to be an even higher level of scrutiny. There's no telling what happened, here--my guess, though, is that Joel et al caught the issue when it was bad enough to be require action, but before it got so far where someone was meaningfully wronged/hurt (hence why we haven't heard more about it). I mean, hell--it could even be some sort of drug/addiction problem. Tours can put a ton of stress on performers, and lead to some troubling behaviors (ask...literally almost any band). Again, I don't know anything. This is all pure speculation, but it's speculation that stems from looking at how media works, how audiences react to the behavior of public figures, and how shows/movies/media companies respond when a public figure behaves badly.
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Post by BoB3K on Jun 17, 2022 11:23:34 GMT -5
I have a nagging bad feeling of another possibility. After the tour, but very early in production, they decided to go with a more diverse cast for Emily and the new bots, and decided to put Brady in as Emily's Crow. They then further decided that it was still early enough to rerecord Crow's parts for the few eps they'd done with Nate so there would be no weird transition mid season, and people would be introduced to Brady along with Emily. And somewhere in that timeline, Nate was like really? f*@# this, and f*@# you, and walked out and deleted all mention of them from his info.
This scenario is completely plausible and if it is true it is sad all the bad rep Nate is getting from guessings and assumptions.
I'm not on the side of Nate or Brady or anyone else, I just don't like it when people start going down roads when there are other options. Especially when we know the current MST3K production has demonstrated other odd / questionable production miscues.
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Post by wedestroymyths on Jun 17, 2022 12:02:21 GMT -5
That is possible, but Nate didn't just delete references to MST...he basically erased his entire social media presence.
Which can't be good for replacing the work he lost with MST...
So it's possible, but does it really seem plausible for someone to get booted from a job unjustly, then basically ghost the entire internet instead of keep hustling for work?
ETA: I also suspect if this were benign, Nate himself would have weighed in by, either to spill the bitter truth, or offer a cordial, banal "we decided to go our separate ways" kind of message. His complete silence is really the most alarming part.
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Post by monkeypretzel on Jun 17, 2022 12:17:22 GMT -5
I'm thinking back to the Circus Tour, where Grant Baciocco as Crow was announced and scheduled to do the second half of the tour, after the holiday break. He was...unhired, for lack of a better term, to do that about a month into the tour, when Joel decided it would be better to keep the group with Nate together for the entire tour because they had such good chemistry, according to Joel. Grant made a public statement about it which mentioned his being extremely disappointed with the decision, which sort of forced Joel into saying something, when it was clear by his tone and his words he really would rather not have, and just quietly gone on with no mention of the replacement.
I can see Joel looking at the reaction to Kelsey as Crow when she filled in while Nate was on Paternity Leave, and deciding that he wanted her as Crow in the post-tour filming and possibly as his Crow, too. So...what to do with Nate, who was so enthusiastic about his role as Crow and who already has four episodes and some promo stuff in the can? Buy him out and make everyone involved sign NDAs? Joel does love his NDAs, we've got plenty of proof of that.
This is speculation. I don't know what happened. But to think that somehow Nate must have done something wrong and to compare him to known abusers/sex offenders is disturbing. FWIW, Nate is in the credits of the latest Defunctland video, and that started production after Nate leaving MST and social media, so obviously they had no problem hiring Nate.
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Post by dudehitscar on Jun 17, 2022 12:46:26 GMT -5
I have a nagging bad feeling of another possibility. After the tour, but very early in production, they decided to go with a more diverse cast for Emily and the new bots, and decided to put Brady in as Emily's Crow. They then further decided that it was still early enough to rerecord Crow's parts for the few eps they'd done with Nate so there would be no weird transition mid season, and people would be introduced to Brady along with Emily. And somewhere in that timeline, Nate was like really? flapjacks this, and flapjacks you, and walked out and deleted all mention of them from his info. This scenario is completely plausible and if it is true it is sad all the bad rep Nate is getting from guessings and assumptions. I'm not on the side of Nate or Brady or anyone else, I just don't like it when people start going down roads when there are other options. Especially when we know the current MST3K production has demonstrated other odd / questionable production miscues. I don't see why Nate quit all social media cause he was fired for not being 'diverse'. That seems like a stretch.
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Post by majorjoe23 on Jun 17, 2022 13:35:22 GMT -5
I'm thinking back to the Circus Tour, where Grant Baciocco as Crow was announced and scheduled to do the second half of the tour, after the holiday break. He was...unhired, for lack of a better term, to do that about a month into the tour, when Joel decided it would be better to keep the group with Nate together for the entire tour because they had such good chemistry, according to Joel. Grant made a public statement about it which mentioned his being extremely disappointed with the decision, which sort of forced Joel into saying something, when it was clear by his tone and his words he really would rather not have, and just quietly gone on with no mention of the replacement. I can see Joel looking at the reaction to Kelsey as Crow when she filled in while Nate was on Paternity Leave, and deciding that he wanted her as Crow in the post-tour filming and possibly as his Crow, too. So...what to do with Nate, who was so enthusiastic about his role as Crow and who already has four episodes and some promo stuff in the can? Buy him out and make everyone involved sign NDAs? Joel does love his NDAs, we've got plenty of proof of that. This is speculation. I don't know what happened. But to think that somehow Nate must have done something wrong and to compare him to known abusers/sex offenders is disturbing. FWIW, Nate is in the credits of the latest Defunctland video, and that started production after Nate leaving MST and social media, so obviously they had no problem hiring Nate. Nate is also in the credits for every MST3K episode he's worked on, so obviously they have no problem crediting him.
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Post by wedestroymyths on Jun 17, 2022 14:08:47 GMT -5
This is speculation. I don't know what happened. But to think that somehow Nate must have done something wrong and to compare him to known abusers/sex offenders is disturbing. Just to be clear, I'm not comparing Nate to anyone, but seeing parallels between what's visible here and what we've seen in situations we've had more information about. I only brought up those instances because someone above asked the question about why Nate's vocal performance would be objectionable, and those were example of productions distancing themselves from individuals (and I very intentionally included not abuse related examples, as well, to demonstrate myriad reasons why a production might want to distance themselves from an individual (Rowling, Smollett, Chevy Chase...). So, to be clear, don't think of that previous post as a comparison of individuals, but an analytical comparison of circumstances trying to get a sense of what happened and why with admittedly very limited info. In my mind, the one thing that really points in a bad direction for Nate is the complete elimination of his social media presence. That's weird, weird stuff. Honestly, I'd like to believe this was something more benign, less troubling, and that's absolutely possible. I'm rooting for that to be the case. Hell, if I could create what happened, it would be that Nate was so in love with domestic life and fatherhood that he bailed on the show, and Joel, frustrated but understanding, decided to replace him in what was already filmed, and Nate deleted his social media because it was too much of a distraction from his new domestic bliss.
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Post by kracker on Jun 17, 2022 15:26:58 GMT -5
I would say this might be a Spacey situation, but nothing is known or public. I mean, nothing. There's absolutely no PR nightmare which was the real reason for nixing Spacey's work. But everything is being mutually and successfully hushed even by Nate himself. So affiliation isn't an issue at all. Rendering the need to erase Nate completely unnecessary. So was this embarrassing thing so bad that the thought of it surfacing somehow someway years down the line in the future just too horrific to fathom? Not really speculating, just pointing out all the ways this doesn't make sense and and doesn't line up with any scenario we can think of, including the disturbing ones.
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Post by demoniclambertobava on Jun 20, 2022 11:52:57 GMT -5
I feel like there's probably some more nuanced place to fall on this spectrum between "New MST3K is innately and fundamentally suspect and dishonest and screwed Nate Begle out of a job on a spurious whim" and "Nate Begle is Kevin Spacey". Might just be me, though.
And for the record, whatever may have happened I do think the suggestion that Joel at his most mustache-twirling would fire Begle simply for 'diversity' is IMO pretty repellent. If I need that rhetoric I can go to virtually any YouTube comments section about the Star Wars sequels or Wonder Woman.
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Post by comedyc on Jun 20, 2022 12:56:13 GMT -5
MST3K doesn't do bad press, it's as simple as that. Like radio, here today, gone tomorrow with no explanation.
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