1306-Demon Squad Discussion Thread

[hearth]

I am not going to get a chance to see season 13 for a while. What is the "show explanation" for the different hosts? And specifically Joel's return?

[kracker]

Jun 27, 2022 15:37:53 GMT -5 hearth said:

I am not going to get a chance to see season 13 for a while. What is the "show explanation" for the different hosts? And specifically Joel's return?

Dr. Kabal demanded the Mads can produce more results with more hosts and they had J. Elvis time travel to snatch one of the previous hosts.



I need to do the rewatch, these livestreams just don't seem to sit that well with me. might be my attention span, i never really like doing livestreams because i pause often so i dont miss stuff.

[majorjoe23]

Jun 27, 2022 15:46:36 GMT -5 kracker said:

Jun 27, 2022 15:37:53 GMT -5 hearth said:

I am not going to get a chance to see season 13 for a while. What is the "show explanation" for the different hosts? And specifically Joel's return?

Dr. Kabal demanded the Mads can produce more results with more hosts and they had J. Elvis time travel to snatch one of the previous hosts.



I need to do the rewatch, these livestreams just don't seem to sit that well with me. might be my attention span, i never really like doing livestreams because i pause often so i dont miss stuff.

I usually watch the regular episode earlier in the day (I'm off for the summer), then catch the Q&A stuff later on.

[Mighty Jack]

That's me as well. It's much easier on me to watch on my schedule, rather than a set time. I watch it early, then do the after show later. And that's much more relaxing and enjoyable.

As to discussing the ep, I've just been dropping off review links in another thread and then leaving... that's not very hospitable of me sorry. So here...

Though I've watched it twice, this might be one I'll need to come back too in a few months and see if my first impression changes. It's definitely not like Atlantis, where I adored it from the start and then watched it over and over and laughed and laughed each time. This might be a grower (or not, it could just as easily be what it is forever).

My primary problem might be with the movie, that it's more a Rifftrax style flick than an MST one.

It's not that I hated it, it's very low budget, but I'll give points for effort and for heart (and for at least moving around to several locations, a lot of micro-budgeted movies will find a location and mostly stay there). But it doesn't really have those broad silly characters you can have fun with (Pumaman) it doesn't have a goofy charm like Santo, it's not a tragic mess (Monster A-Go Go) nor is it even a humorous zero, with odd things to latch onto, like corn detasselling or poopie suits (Starfighters), there's nothing to sink your teeth into, as there is in Munchie. Which according to the cast is worse... but according to this fan, is a better fit for the show.

Demon Squad's main crime IMHO (let me stress that, before Torgo comes in to give me a verbal spanking) is that it doesn't have a personality. There's stuff there, but it's bland stuff, with a bland hero, a bland baddie and a bland, tepid romance.

And I think that's reflected in the riffing. To quote me, they are throwing a lot of softballs in there. Even the ones Torgo and Diet Kolos pointed out as huge laugh-getters for them, only made me chuckle (they are good riffs, just not side splitters). The one huge laugh I got, is more because it references something I love, so it hit me where I live (The "Jesus Nick Superstar" quip)

I do think the second half is funnier - and I don't think it's bad by any means, there are laughs, it wasn't a waste of time. But it was mostly an average riffing for me.

The best part of it, was the nostalgia, The opening bit with Joel and Larry had me howling with laughter (oh to hear that voice), most of the skits didn't display great comedy writing, but were lifted by the personalities, so I enjoyed them for that, and for feeling like old-style Joel sketches. Seeing the bridge with Hexfield and hearing "pizza" during the doorway sequences, was pure heaven for this fan.


Yeowza, that was a mouthful, but hey, I contributed to the conversation.

In the here and now, I give it a 3 out of 5, though the second half might be enough to give that grade a nudge upwards in future viewings.

[kracker]

I was thinking this as well, that this was a bad movie for MST3K. Its not even more of a Rifftrax, it's more of a Best of the Worst. They show a lot of these types of movies where they try to pass off a hotel room as part of a house. Bad audio. Boring dialogue. It's just bland, like MJ said no personality. A movie where you have someone waddling about in a gorilla suit wearing a divers helmet, at least has personality.
In the after show, the filmmakers mentioned that this was kind of a proof-of-concept where much of their stuff did indeed come from Halloween stores and they did indeed shoot in the back of a Pizza Hut. It's more of something your friends made for fun with their camcorder. Only now, they can take that and slap it on Blu-ray and it's up for sell on on Amazon like a real movie.

I guessed that's why they made it a Joel epsiode, had to bring in the big guns for this one. I figured maybe it would pick up at the end with the Frankendemon and it probably did, but the beginning had me totally zoned out.

[Afgncaap5]

Joel's style of sketches have always felt a little off to me, but in a way that I like. I don't think I "get" them the way they're intended to be gotten, but I think the charm he brings carries them really well.

[Diet Kolos]

Even though I thought the episode was one of the stronger of season 13, I will concur with others that have said that it's not a great movie choice for MST. When the movie started I was very concerned about how "wrong" it felt. I don't think it was a BAD choice. I think it was sincere enough to be the right kind of bad-good. But it was also very...flat. Un-cinematic. It almost didn't feel like a "real" bad movie, but instead a long sketch made for a YouTube channel.

However, I was consistently giggling with the occasional laugh out loud, so I'd say the riffing carried the movie here. But I get people being unhappy with the overall episode.

I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent strike against using newer movies going forward. But I think we can all agree that the show works best when the movie looks and feels like a "film".
I think someone mentioned RLM's Best of the Worst. It's definitely one of the kinds of movies they watch. Like Suburban Sasquatch or Partners. And those episodes are frankly my least favorites of theirs.

There's probably a reason they didn't use any of the shot-on-VHS crap from the 90s in the original run: it was all amateurish garbage. Punching down. And that's what I kind of get out of these shot on digital movies, too.
I think the Christmas episode is another one of these types of movies, so we'll see.

[Mighty Jack]

I struggle with things like Fungicide and Baby Ghost at Rifftrax, those types. And I've been trying to figure out why, I mean wasn't Manos no budget and amateuristic too? But maybe it's the film stock, maybe it's that it was difficult to make a movie back then, even low-budget baddies still took money and a lot of effort, just to process the thing. And the Manos types, the Red Zone Cuba's, at least feel like a real movie. Poorly made, sure, but real. Baby Ghost is like something your nephew made during spring break with his phone. And I just don't enjoy those (and have stopped buying them)

BTW, Rifftrax did Suburban Sasquatch.

[comedyc]

Huh. I thought it was the best fit for MST3K this season. I went in with trepidation, but within minutes the sincerity of the film carried me through. I much prefer, and feel, that truly indie films like Demon Squad are a much better fit than redressing old, dead, Full Moon Pictures back stock and trying to squeeze a buck out of it. Those feel more like RiffTrax (Munchie, Doctor Mordrid). Those were fun, too, but not my favorites.
But as long as there's a good variety of film choices, I'm okay with it. A little something for everyone. And it looks like my kind of MST movies are about to come down the pike here over the next few months.

[kracker]

Thinking about the types of movies that are a good fit for MST3K, I'm reminded of the quote about how movies on MST3K are "made by oily guys who mostly elect to turn the camera on themselves" and i think this movie was missing that ego. A lot of Best of the Worst movies definitely had a tremendous amount of ego showing, which well warranted their punching down, which went so far that the director/writer/star of one of their 'spotlight selections' got mad for making fun of what was probably a school project (that she put up for sale on Amazon in Bluray and VOD formats as if it were a real movie) and went after them with a copyright strike. Which was also hilarious. By contrast, the amount of praise and appreciation heaped on by Joel and company in the post-show, I couldn't help but think they pulled punches on what I don't consider a really bad movie but an earnest home attempt with the very limited resources available to them.

[demoniclambertobava]

Jun 27, 2022 22:10:46 GMT -5 Mighty Jack said:

I struggle with things like Fungicide and Baby Ghost at Rifftrax, those types. And I've been trying to figure out why, I mean wasn't Manos no budget and amateuristic too? But maybe it's the film stock, maybe it's that it was difficult to make a movie back then, even low-budget baddies still took money and a lot of effort, just to process the thing. And the Manos types, the Red Zone Cuba's, at least feel like a real movie. Poorly made, sure, but real. Baby Ghost is like something your nephew made during spring break with his phone. And I just don't enjoy those (and have stopped buying them)

I feel the same; IMO it feels like fish in a barrel at this point with the way modern bad media from the dregs of Amazon Prime or Tubi or wherever seemingly gets instantly viral-ized and consumed, chewed up and spit out by reactors on YT. For the old MST pros at RT, it felt like chasing a trend instead of finding the new worst. I don't know if Demon Squad is in that zone, but it is why I avoid the true gutterball crap like what you mentioned above whenever RT does it. There's no sport in that to me. I felt similarly about Atlantic Rim for different reasons.

If, OTOH, Demon Squad is simply a modern version of something like Overdrawn at the Memory Bank, Final Sacrifice or Time Chasers - vaguely contemporary (for the times) films with some level of intelligence and craft, poorly executed - then that's viable.

[Mighty Jack]

For me, it's a step above Baby Ghost, but a step or two behind Final Sacrifice and the others you name... and it doesn't have the personality of those films. I agree with those who call it earnest, but flat. I did say it leaned more Rifftraxy, but maybe it's in some middle area limbo?

And it does feel like they pulled their punches. I don't mean that they needed to eviscerate it, but a little sprinkle of that Sci-Fi era sassiness wouldn't have hurt. But I guess the Time Chasers people were a little hurt and maybe that's not what Joel and co. want to do here. (And yes, Sci-fi could push it a little too far, even Hobgoblin's Rick Sloan, who was a good sport, kind of felt they hit below the belt and got too personal during the end credits. I wouldn't want that here; the Smith's seems like nice folk... just a little more spice.)

[kracker]

Yeah i was going to say you could compare this to Manos, but Manos definitely had ego. This fertilizer salesman made it as a bet but actually made it as if it was a real movie, not some humble proof-of-concept. He treated it as a real movie and gave it a whole premiere then got mad, depressed when people called his movie horrible. Overdrawn at the Memory Bank, Final Sacrifice, etc. also made with the intention of being real competent endeavors.

Yeah could be the film stock. When they made these movies with film stock, they didn't go through that trouble of making a movie unless they were really serious about it. The advent of the camcorder opened things up but they just looked like home movies, anything they shot would look like a found footage format feature at their very best. The handheld consumer-end HD camera though, now they had the ability to actually make something that could look like a real movie if they knew what they were doing and that's the point where things get muddled.

[pufncraft]

My main issue with the episode is that they cut out a lot of exposition, like the Frankendemon's connection to Lovecraft's Old Ones and Nick's ability to open portals. It's not really fair of the MST3K crew to be poking fun of these "plot holes" when they're the ones who are making them.

Still enjoyed the return of Joel and Mighty Voice Tom Servo and thought Kelsey's southern belle voice was very funny. Hopefully The Bubble will offer better riffing material for all three of them.

[Mighty Jack]

I know they've made that part of the show, that Kingachrome doesn't work flawlessly and they lose pieces of the film. But it might be nice to make a brief mention of that on occasion. So if they express surprise over a character's new talent or whatever, throw in a quick, "Oh, Ardy probably lost the part that explains that" in response once in a blue moon, just to keep it honest and clear.