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Post by Diet Kolos on Sept 5, 2022 19:23:07 GMT -5
Lots of fade edits to the movie. The movie is incomprehensible anyways so we're not missing plot, I'm not complaining. But its pretty noticeable this episode.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Sept 5, 2022 19:45:02 GMT -5
An okay episode. Slow start, riffing only really gets going on all cylinders after Segment 4, much like Doctor Mordrid. One, maybe 2 big laughs, but a dozen plus good chuckles and smiles throughout. More than I could say for Batwoman. Host segments are meh and mostly run too long. That song at the end was weak.
Overall I'd rank it in the middle of the Season so far, maybe just inside the bottom half. First gut rating is a C+/B-
As far as re-using the movie...
Of all the non-Sandy Frank KTMA movies to redo, I'm not sure THIS was the optimal choice. I guess they use what they can get, but I think SST Death Flight or City on Fire or Last Chase are more riff-able movies. This one just feels like Castle of Fu Manchu (Damn you Harry Alan Towers). It just keeps going and going and nothing particularly interesting happens other than Klaus Kinski showing up for 2 minutes.
I didn't see the KTMA version of Sumuru that was mentioned, I guess they did it in the live event portion.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Sept 5, 2022 20:03:35 GMT -5
Digging through the interminable after-show chat, finally to the part with the KTMA episode. Note that Matt says they "do not have access to the KTMA master tapes".
And yes, that's the version of K18 I uploaded, I can tell by the color correction and cropping at the bottom.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Sept 6, 2022 6:38:00 GMT -5
The riffing, for me this season, has been a little soft and safe, they throw a few jabs, but then pull back - and there's much that's funny, much I'm enjoying, but in some cases, and Sumuru is one of those cases, I wish they'd take off the kid gloves, roll around the mud with it, and get a little blood on their teeth.
Yes, they make offended sounds when the sexism pops up, but that's kind of a soft response... I think what I wanted here is what Joel and co. would have delivered in season 5 - Mitchell and Eegah type riffing. So yeah, I had some laughs, but I think they could have done so much better if they were willing to throw down a little more. It's okay to not be the good guy all the time, it's okay that Joe Don was upset with you (and maybe justifiably so) - yeah "sorry about the face" in Eegah was not nice, but it was funny.
On a first 2 viewings, I didn't really find it any better at the end, riffing was all pretty much the same throughout. I do think the opening skits were funny, the inventions and such. It's about the same level as Demon Squad, but Squad got hot in its second half, so I'll go...
1. Beyond Atlantis (4.25) 2. Dr. Mordrid (4.0) 3. The Batwoman (3.75) 4. Munchie (3.5) 6. Santo in the Treasure of Dracula (3.5) 7. Demon Squad (3.0) 8. The Million Eyes of Sumuru (3.0) 9. Gamera vs. Jiger (2.5) 10. Robot Wars (2.5)
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Post by Diet Kolos on Sept 6, 2022 7:35:27 GMT -5
"Soft" is an apt descriptor for this season on the whole so far. Smile-inducing, occasionally funny, but very soft. "Family friendly" in a nearly sterile, sanitized way.
I'd almost go so far as to say inessential. But the season isn't done yet so we'll see.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Sept 6, 2022 8:05:00 GMT -5
Might be why I liked Susan in Jiger, her bloodlust has been about the most edgy thing they've done all season. There are a few riffs sprinkled here and there (Emily's "Sounds like my marriage" was dark), but yeah, overall, soft is the word that keeps springing to my mind.
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Post by BoB3K on Sept 6, 2022 15:14:11 GMT -5
"Soft" is an apt descriptor for this season on the whole so far. Smile-inducing, occasionally funny, but very soft. "Family friendly" in a nearly sterile, sanitized way. I'd almost go so far as to say inessential. But the season isn't done yet so we'll see. See, this is where the whole kickstarter campaigning comes back in. There's really nothing wrong with having a so-so, not-bad season. But, if you've done all this hype about it and raised a bunch of money, it raises peoples expectations. I love season 1, but then I literally had NO expectations or investment going into it. I just found the eps online years after the show was over, and cool some new old eps, let's sit back, crack a beer and check these out, no hype or money to do with it.
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Sept 6, 2022 19:01:54 GMT -5
Yeah, it's hard to know exactly where to pull punches. I remember the opposite problem with some Rifftrax episodes I listened to early on. I was still a college student living at home at the time, so I started up Rifftrax riffing on... I wanna say Star Trek V?... and sometimes the riffs just got *too* bad for me. Definitely awkward to watch with my mom, despite our previous familiarity with MST3K as a more or less family-friendly show.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Sept 6, 2022 21:39:03 GMT -5
I remember being uncomfortable with the kids in the room with some of the adult riffs in Diabolik. But classic era MST I think had a better feel for how to approach each individual movie, and what tone to strike. They might riff a Magic Sword different than a Fu Manchu for example.
Season 13 they seem to be going at them with the same brush strokes
With Rifftrax, they can be meaner, and cruder (Bill's even apologized for one comment he made about an actress), but I watched "A Dangerous Man" not long ago and Steven Seagal just comes off like a total douche, and with a guy like that, a movie like that, I don't want them to play patty cake with it, and they didn't, they gave it what it deserved and it was funny.
If you're unwilling to do that, then you don't do those kinds of movies.
Don't do Sumuru if you're only going to give tepid "Gosh that sexism, yuk" type of responses.
I think CT struck the riff/movie balance well. In fact, if Joel would let him off the chain and not neuter him, I think J. Elvis would be a perfect full-time (or even head) writer for the show. He has just enough bite in his comedy that I think would serve MST well. I'm not saying go full mean, but a little more spice, a willingness to go there when it suited the scene or movie, wouldn't hurt.
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Post by dignan on Sept 6, 2022 21:47:29 GMT -5
I feel like the live riffs have shown more of a willingness to go a bit darker, with decent success. For example, the showing I caught of Making Contact, the “better luck next kid” riff brought the house down.
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Post by Diet Kolos on Sept 7, 2022 6:53:26 GMT -5
The more I think about this the more mildly troubling it becomes in my mind.
Outside of maybe the top 2 episodes this season (Beyond Atlantis, Munchie), and the bottom episode (Robot Wars) everything else has a sense and feel of "same-ness" to it.
The episodes all kind of blend together in tone and quality and pace of riffing, regardless of movie. Its like mixing a bunch of different color paints together and the result is just a dark grayish beige. No matter what movie, no matter what happens, its a constant flat-line of riffing quality (outside of the last 10 minutes of Mordrid and Sumuru). Its going to be constant smiles, a handful of chuckles and if we're lucky 1 or 2 big guffaws. And I can set my watch to it.
Its not LOW quality, mind you just...there. It reminds me of that stretch of Season 9 from 905-909 where it feels like the writers are on autopilot (I find Hobgoblins is only memorable because of the movie, not the riffing, and Touch of Satan is prob the high point in this period). It doesn't actively turn me off, comedically, like Season 12 did. But its nothing I want to revisit.
This "same-ness", which I suppose if you're making a TV show, is something you want to do and not have everything be wildly different every single episode. But I need a pulse, consistent ups and downs, not just middle. Maybe its bad movie choices? Or if a movie is boring, they don't know how to riff it entertainingly until something interesting happens? Maybe the writing process is a little TOO democratic and the really good riffs are getting vetoed? Maybe they're self-censoring? Maybe the writing team is huge and there's no one team and every episode is written by a different yet similarly composed teaming so there's no honed riffing "voice" yet? Who knows.
I just hope we get another A-level episode or 2 before the season is up. Because a season of 80% "it was ok" isn't enough to make me want to watch another. Much less pay for it.
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Post by kmorgan on Sept 7, 2022 11:53:09 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only one who's fully satisfied with Season 13. They've had a good selection of movies, the riffs are funny, and they've finally gotten the rhythm of the jokes right (not too many or too fast). It's not perfect, but I expected that. The only expectation I had was, "Is it funny?". And, as far as I'm concerned, it is. And if I want edgier material, The Mads, MJ, and RT are providing it, and very well, too.
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Post by demoniclambertobava on Sept 7, 2022 16:27:56 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only one who's fully satisfied with Season 13. You're not, most of us just don't post here much atm.
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Post by Afgncaap5 on Sept 7, 2022 16:36:12 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only one who's fully satisfied with Season 13. They've had a good selection of movies, the riffs are funny, and they've finally gotten the rhythm of the jokes right (not too many or too fast). It's not perfect, but I expected that. The only expectation I had was, "Is it funny?". And, as far as I'm concerned, it is. And if I want edgier material, The Mads, MJ, and RT are providing it, and very well, too. I'm honestly expecting that I'll fully enjoy it once I can finally watch it, but my summer without internet access from home has thus far made it challenging to keep up with the times.
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Post by Mighty Jack on Sept 7, 2022 16:48:28 GMT -5
If you're looking for people who are praising this as one of the MSTs finest seasons, there's another forum that'll give you just that. there are fans who are really into this season.
The thing is, I don't hate this, I'm getting laughs, but it is, for me, in this mid-level groove - makes me think of a Bible passage... "So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth." - Revelations 3:16
And I'm not saying be edgy for edginess sake, but if the opportunity presents itself, don't pull back. Be a lion not a lamb. And that's not asking for something outlandish and so far removed from what MST is. That kind of humor, the variety and the flavor, is part of what drew me to the show in the first place.
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