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Post by kracker on Apr 12, 2022 18:25:59 GMT -5
it might be a case of Shout having to license the films from whomever the rights for those films wind up with. They might not have the option of being able to snatch up individual titles. Either way, Olive Films is probably still in the process of being dissolved and divvied up as its "the beginning of the end" so its going to be awhile.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Apr 13, 2022 4:06:31 GMT -5
Hopefully they'll come to streaming soon??? Girls Town and Diabolik aren't on streaming, so it's unlikely any of the Paramount titles will be available to stream. DVD is the likeliest option. It all has to do with what's in the Olive contract, what Paramount's deals are, and what Shout has to offer. I've said it before and I'll say it again, saying "This thing hasn't happened yet, that means it will NEVER happen" is nonsense. These things take time and patience, especially since only few know what the true details are. I'm fairly convinced that Delta Knights was pushed on streaming in the meantime because it was cheap to get, easy to renew, and could keep fans appeased because Shout knew the last three Paramount titles would take a few years. No news just means no news. It's not a tombstone.
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Post by CrowTrobotfan92 on Apr 13, 2022 8:59:33 GMT -5
The fact that they managed to get Girls Town and Diabolik by 2017 when it was clear they were already coming to an end with their episode selections and didn’t seem to go after any of the other expired titles when their time came would say otherwise.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Apr 13, 2022 17:37:31 GMT -5
The fact that they managed to get Girls Town and Diabolik by 2017 when it was clear they were already coming to an end with their episode selections and didn’t seem to go after any of the other expired titles when their time came would say otherwise. I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to. If you're talking about Final Sacrifice, the licensee wasn't interested in renewing because he wasn't interested in the deal in the first place. He only caved because they met a price he couldn't ignore. If you're talking about Soultaker, the issue with renewing is unknown, but it was likely just terms Shout couldn't meet. If you're referring to the Olive titles, that's what we're talking about in the first place and your bringing Olive up as proof that they aren't interested in these titles makes zero sense.
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Post by CrowTrobotfan92 on Apr 13, 2022 22:32:45 GMT -5
What I meant was the fact that it seems like Shout didn’t even take the opportunity to strike licensing deals with the Olive titles when they (supposedly) expired - Space Children in 2017, Fire Maidens in 2018, and Deadly Bees in 2020…. Olive has shown no signs of renewal and Shout usually seems to be the kind of company to take the opportunity to snag something when they know they want to release it and when it’s available. Unless they’re charging too much for these remaining titles, I don’t find it a coincidence why it’s already 2022 and no signs have emerged of releasing these episodes onto DVD even when it looks to be Olive no longer has anything to do with those movies.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Apr 13, 2022 23:14:40 GMT -5
What I meant was the fact that it seems like Shout didn’t even take the opportunity to strike licensing deals with the Olive titles when they (supposedly) expired - Space Children in 2017, Fire Maidens in 2018, and Deadly Bees in 2020…. Olive has shown no signs of renewal and Shout usually seems to be the kind of company to take the opportunity to snag something when they know they want to release it and when it’s available. Unless they’re charging too much for these remaining titles, I don’t find it a coincidence why it’s already 2022 and no signs have emerged of releasing these episodes onto DVD even when it looks to be Olive no longer has anything to do with those movies. This is conjecture. We have no idea what is in the Olive contract, whether or not Shout put an offer on the table, or even what Olive's current status is. It also assumes Shout would move on the titles right as the rights lapsed, and not when all three lapsed so they could group them together for a singular contract deal. And considering the last contract expired during a pandemic, there are more delays to take into account. And that's if they moved immediately, which they likely didn't. There is no absolute to any of this. And considering Shout licensed Delta Knights and even jumped in the ring to renew the Gamera contract after we all assumed it was dead in the water, they're still interested in licensing MST episodes. That's what I believe, and their DVD numbers on the series inspired them to release almost the entire show, which leads me to lean optimistic. Short of getting in contact with people at Shout regarding the rights to these episodes, there is no information to form the opinion that Shout has no interest in these episodes. Doomsaying is just meaningless, honestly.
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Torgo
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Post by Torgo on Apr 14, 2022 6:21:48 GMT -5
Since I'm now off work and have more free time, allow me to elaborate a bit. The above questions why they wouldn't jump on each title as they free up, like Shout would have days crossed off on a calendar like they were counting down to each like Christmas morning. This holds no business sense, because if Shout acquired each license separately then they would all expire at different points. Since the three episodes would be bundled up, it would be more economical to license them all at the same time so they expire at the same time, which would allow a potential box set to go out of print with minimal collateral damage.
Now let's put forth a hypothetical negotiation scenario. Bear in mind I don't know how Shout licenses these so these are all presumption on my part, but one thing we need to remember is that Shout has further interest in dealing with these larger companies than just MST line. They also negotiate for the rights to release films on Blu-ray and 4K that might target a market that is smaller than Paramount's home media outlet would consider worthwhile but is right in line with Shout's projections. I've always been under the impression that Shout licenses the films for MST while also negotiating for films to release throughout the year, seeing how MST started tapping into Universal and MGM titles around the same time Scream Factory was taking off, initially with mostly Universal and MGM titles.
Let's say Shout meets with Paramount once a year (if that) to find titles they can release over the next twelve months. Shout has a list they're interested in, and Paramount might have a list of ones they can offer. While Shout is checking with them on titles they mention there are three films they want to release the MST episodes of but they want the trio at the same time so they can bundle them together or they'll delay it to some other time when they're all available.
In this scenario, Paramount has to look at these titles, just point at one, and say either "This title is not available at this time" or "There is a problem with this one" for Shout to just nod their head and move on, waiting until the following year to check up on them again. According to those dates stated, the earliest all three could have been available at the same time was 2020, but Olive's contract still could have feasibly been in play throughout the year, so 2020 was a no go. In 2021, there still might have been a snag with the titles seeing how fresh off the Olive deal they might have been, if they were free at all, causing a pass as well.
You state that it being 2022 is a sign we won't be getting these episodes. Honestly, thia year is the earliest I ever expected them if they happen because this is what I assumed was going to happen.
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Post by CrowTrobotfan92 on Apr 14, 2022 16:46:54 GMT -5
To be fair, it has been confirmed Jordan Fields has looked at this likelihood list (mentioned via the podcast back in early 2016) and there was a post mentioning when the rights would expire to those films (I don't know how accurate it truly was, but I recall it being mentioned around 2015/16), and it was noted on the list for awhile, so I imagine he probably saw it and used it as a reference with Paramount on when those titles would be expiring and could have the opportunity to use them. True, it's likely they could have waited for everything all at once, but I also feel waiting would only have them lose the chance of not getting their time to use those titles, and I feel at the very least they could have always just released the titles on their own in some form while waiting for a chance to release them.
Let's not forget Shout instantly took the chance with a North American company to sub-license the Gamera titles back in 2010 when they had the chance. I would imagine they'd take the chance with the individual titles and could have used them in one way or another for the films on their own before using them for MST releases.
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Post by CrowTrobotfan92 on Apr 14, 2022 16:54:53 GMT -5
Well, for what it is, I don’t know if they reply to questions from fans anymore, but I asked on Facebook what the status is regarding the Olive (expired or not) titles to see if they’re on board at all.
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Post by ProjectedPaul on Apr 15, 2022 21:36:47 GMT -5
I've created a thread, as suggested by Joshua Murphy of the old MSTieCast podcast, about creating a fan petition informing Shout Factory that MSTies would promise to buy any possible future MST3k DVD sets containing unreleased episodes. This petition would specifically note fan interest in a set containing "Quest of the Delta Knights" and the three episodes containing films released in that Olive Films-Paramount deal. I noted that fans of "Freaks & Geeks" had to do something similar. forrestcrow.proboards.com/thread/24508/petition-shout-factory-mst3k-releases
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Post by travis on Apr 16, 2022 4:39:30 GMT -5
Shout Factory would probably love to squeeze one more box set out, and get that last little bit of revenue from their IP.
I can't imagine licensing some deep catalog titles from Paramount to be nearly as expensive as some of the wildcard indie-owned ones they've had to negotiate. It's really just a matter of time, as others have said.
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jcm
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Post by jcm on Apr 16, 2022 16:48:18 GMT -5
So, would a potential Volume XL (40) be the following episodes: 416, 905, 906 and 913?
I know it has been almost 5 years since the last box set but... next year is the 35th Anniversary of the show. Seems like it would be a great time to drop one last box set.
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Post by CrowTrobotfan92 on Apr 16, 2022 22:03:43 GMT -5
That would be the likely at this point set yes.
I am hopeful this will eventually happen because the Timmy episode is easily a standout for me and I think deserves a full DVD release.
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jcm
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Post by jcm on Apr 18, 2022 19:35:15 GMT -5
I doubt it will go anywhere but I emailed Shout! Factory customer service about the possibility of a Volume XL. They said they would pass it along to the acquisitions team. Do I expect it to go anywhere? No, not really, but I felt compelled to at least send the email.
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Post by majorjoe23 on Apr 18, 2022 19:57:31 GMT -5
Not exactly MST3K, but Shout just announced that there are only 100 copies left of the Cinematic Titanic set and that it will go out of print after that. I wonder if it will remain on Tubi/in rotation on Twitch, or if they’re losing the rights to any of the films?
It would be nice if they became available digitally on the Gizmoplex or the Rifftrax site.
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