Post by mummifiedstalin on May 22, 2011 0:17:16 GMT -5
Rob Weiner is the co-editor of In the Peanut Gallery with MST3K[/url], a new collection of academic essays on the show. We solicited questions from members of the board about his book, and Rob was kind enough to talk with us.
If you're interested in learning more about the book after reading the interview, we've already had a couple of threads about the book here and here. There's also a sample essay online, although it may not be representative of the rest of the book.
How did the idea for the book come about?[/i][/color]
I had the idea for this book ten years ago (shortly after I completed my edited volume Perspectives on the Grateful Dead in 1999). I had approached a number of publishers with the concept of an edited volume on the show, but they told me there was not much interest. Then in 2002 I tried to put together a scholarly panel on the show for the Southwestern/Texas Popular Culture Association. That, too, generated little interest and while the panel was well attended at the time, only one person came to present. So it was something that I always wanted to do.
It seemed like this was the right time, so I asked my Texas Tech Library colleague Metadata librarian Shelley Barba to help, and we made a good team for this project. The publisher McFarland is always nice to work with.
Why does MST3K seem worthy of this kind of scholarship?[/i][/color]
Well, the whole culture of riffing has exploded since MST3K went off the air. On the internet you can find websites with numerous alternative commentaries, youtube fan iRiffs, and folks like Josh Way and Incognito Cinema Warriors have their own fans and DVDS for sale. But even before that, with fan made MST3K tributes (Ryan Johnson comes to mind) the show struck a cord with a certain audience that has grown and grown over the years. MSTies were some of the first to embrace online culture in a big way and continue to do so.
Besides, you know it is only a matter of time before someone starts teaching a college or university course on the show. The whole textual poaching concept and culture of riffing is too tempting for some professor to pass up. I don't think it is a question of if someone will teach a course on the show, but when. Perhaps someone is already incorporating MST3K into their courses. I'm sure it is already happening.
The fact is that the show changed the way we watch movies, at least for a segment of the population, and that is worthy of study in itself.
So much of the riffing comes from all aspects of popular culture/literature/music/history. That is fascinating for folks to study and debate.
As I've said before, it is great time to be a fan of the show with all the wonderful DVD releases from Shout, RiffTrax and Cinematic Titanic. We have the best of all possible worlds.
People continue to discover the show through the Internet/Live Gigs/DVDS etc., and new fans continue to "jump on."
Kevin and Mary Jo wrote a forward and afterward for your book. How did the Brains react when they found out they were the subject of "academic criticism"?[/i][/color]
As you can tell from the foreword/afterword they don't really see why make such a big deal about everything. I think they find most of this puzzling. Nevertheless I hope they also appreciate the fact that MST3K really did change the world in its "own small way" to quote Harold and Maude.
Let's face it (at the risk of sounding too fanboyish) MST3K/RiffTrax/Cinematic Titanic are masters at what they do. They bring a sense of fun into the riffing which can't really be topped. I am very grateful to Kevin and Mary Jo for their participation (and for Kevin's willingness to be interviewed about making of Blood Hook as well as the music writer/sound editor Tom Naunas. Both those interviews give new insights into the making of the pre-MST3K film Blood Hook which MSTies know Jim Mallon directed).
They are probably scratching their head.
How did you get Rick Sloane's piece? Did you contact him directly?[/i][/color]
Michelle Brittany and her beau Nick put me in touch with Sloane. I contacted him to see if he wanted to write something. I thought it would be great if one of the filmmakers whose film was riffed would be willing to contribute. Lots of folks like that essay and think it provides a nice balance between the "fun" and really "academic" sides of the book.
A large number of the essays focus on the community of MST3K, both in terms of the audience experience and in the various types of "fandom" that has grown up around it. Why do you think MST3K inspires these kinds of relationships?[/i][/color]
Hey, there is nothing like watching MST3K and its offshoots with an audience or with friends. There is something about the show that inspires passion among the fans. MST3K is so intelligent!
Some people on our board have said that "thinking too much" about their entertainment kills it for them. I gather you don't agree, but how do you respond to that idea?[/i][/color]
Keep in mind that our hearts were in the right place as fans and lovers of the show. We've been criticized for not being academic enough and for being way too academic. There are folks who are not going to like the volume and those who love it. You can't please everyone. But considering there are similar volumes on shows like Buffy, Star Trek, the X-Files, South Park and so many other programs, we just wanted to provide a forum for folks to publish their ideas and scholarship on the show (even if we didn't always agree with the authors).
We don't want to "kill it" for anyone. We realize it is "just a show." But what we have done is not much different than some of those obsessive fan websites (that have folks who know far more than I do about show) where every riff is annotated, every concept discussed, etc.
What were you expecting (if anything) in terms of how the subjects of race and feminism would be dealt with, if at all? Did you reject, edit, or specifically request any essays on those subjects?[/i][/color]
We had no idea whether those subjects would be dealt with. Our call for papers was pretty broad, so I'm glad we had the Gypsy piece (and the Cambot one for that matter). We ended up not using at least half of the pieces submitted (most of which were very good) because we were limited. We couldn't produce a 500 page tome. So for those who submitted and didn't get in, keep plugging away because there is room for lots more scholarship out there.
There's an interesting chapter about the educational shorts and how they can be used to extract a kind of history and cultural study of the times when they were made. Did you ever think of doing a study of the movies themselves and how they can illuminate the times they were made in? [/i][/color]
Movies, like comics, books etc., are windows into cultural history. The shorts are no exception. I think there is a little of that in the volume from some of the essays that discuss specific films (for example, Blood Hook was a product of the 1980s and it shows: the annoying teenagers, the hook welding maniac). I recently watched Lost Boys and while still a great vampire movie, the bad hair of the actors reminds viewers of the decade of the mullet the 1980s.
Movies are a form of history and done in the spirit of the times. Fans love the shorts because there is so much to make fun of now (that may have not been funny in the times they were made). It is great that RiffTrax does all those shorts. I hope Cinematic Titanic will consider doing a short or two someday.
A running theme of many of the essays is that there's something subversive or even political about watching MST3K, even if it's just the notion that the show helps us not be passive media consumers. And yet, even with the worst movies the fans seem to develop a genuine love for the films instead of treating them like an overbearing pop culture that has to be resisted or fought against. Would you say that the contributions generally present MST3K as full-on "subversive" satire, or is it more a part of the culture it mocks?[/i][/color]
I do think it's a form of subversion. The whole "textual poaching" concept (Henry Jenkins) and creating something new out of something "old" is highly subversive in its own way. Look at filmmakers like Ken Jacobs, Jay Rosenblatt, or Craig Baldwin who use "found" footage to create a new kind of film art.
MSTK created a new kind of art and really "broke" unstated rules by talking back to the screen. I know there are historical precedents to riffing (as pointed out in several of the essays in the volume), but it really took the cast of MST3K/RiffTrax and Cinematic Titanic to make riffing its own unique art form.
And, yes, I am fan of B-Z movies and many of the films MST3K did I could watch without the riffing and enjoy them, but the riffing makes the experience all the more potent (because many of them are just plain bad Manos comes to mind and yet the history of Manos is a fascinating one indeed).
Were you surprised by anything in the essay submissions? Were there crazy essay ideas or people taking it far too seriously, etc.? Did anything particularly interesting not make the cut?[/i][/color]
Yeah, there was one piece that was way too theoretical for us as were editing. I can't remember much about the article as it was last summer when we went through the original submissions. But I remember thinking that it was just too much theory.
We had another very good piece on Overdrawn at the Memory Bank as well. Shelley and I went through the pieces and knew that we had to cut at least half of the submissions we received. But we did state that submission did not necessarily mean final publication. We had no idea there would be so many.
I think the fact that so many people want to write an essay with their views on the show and the culture of riffing is a testament to the power of the show 12 years after it went off the air. But the culture of riffing is so huge now (and Joel, Mary Jo, Frank, Mike, Bill, Kevin, J. Elvis, Trace are still at the top of their game). I hope they continue what they are doing for another twenty years or more.
Ok, I know I'm being a fanboy again.
Which essay do you think most MSTies will find particularly surprising or perhaps even disagreeable?[/i][/color]
Some folks have found the whole book to be disagreeable, some love it. We, of course, want the general fans and academics to like the book. There is some good historical material and discussion in there. But you don't have to agree with it all.
The Rick Sloane piece has received the most conversation. I think the historical pieces on riffing would be of interest to most fans, as well as the section on the shorts. The specific films section and the fandom section are unique in their coverage.
How does this book relate to your other work on pop culture?[/i][/color]
Well, I do work on comics, librarianship, film, popular music. It's really all over the board from Batman and the Grateful Dead to the Holocaust in comics, Marvel Comics, to transgressive cinema, and James Bond. Again, some people like what I do and others don't. So MST3K fits right in there. And really I am just a fan of the show and the people who make it.
How has your other work been received? Are there different reactions inside academia from general readers?[/i][/color]
Again some people like it some don't: My Captain America and Grateful Dead books have been criticized for being "too academic" as well (or not academic enough).
For the transgressive cinema books, my co-editor and I wanted articles from both academics and journalists. We wanted to show that both sides have their place in the study of film (but oftentimes the journalists won't talk to the academics and vice versa, so the book itself is transgressive in that way).
Speaking of transgressive cinema, one other topic that didn't get directly addressed in the collection, but which seems relevant to MST, would be the process by which mainstream films become b-movies, such as what happens when a low-budget movie rips off a high-budget one (or, even more interestingly, when a low-budget movie actually precedes a high-budget one with a similar premise, which also happens sometimes).[/i][/color]
Yeah that is very interesting topic. Look at all the "spoofs" and rip offs of other films. How many aliens-among-us films are there? Someone could have certainly addressed this issue. Hollywood and filmmakers, whether making B-Movies, A-Prestige films or blockbusters, always copy what has come before (especially in genres like horror/sc-fi). Look at Contamination which is just an Italian "rip-off" of Alien which itself is a lot like It: the Terror From Beyond Space. I like all three films.
You know, Italian producers would often ask "What is your film like," meaning what popular film can we rip off but make it different enough so no lawsuits. Everything is always being recycled.
The difference with MSTK3 is that they are creating something new out of something older.
You mention that your favorite short is "What to Do on a Date," and that you've shown it to every "significant other" in your life. How did that pan out?[/i][/color]
Well, I am currently single! HA! (Unfortunately, I might add). Still nothing beats that short. I've shown them my favorite episode Final Justice, too, and "Case of Spring Fever."
Other favorites include Santa Claus, Mitchell, Wild Woman of Wongo and Killers from Space (Film Crew), Prince of Space, Invasion of the Neptune Men, Catalina Caper Amazing Colossal Man, Crawling Hand, Phase IV, Eegah, MST3K: The Movie and of course my first episode Magic Voyage of Sinbad. (Everything is good, but these episodes are some of my personal favs).
Also my favorite RiffTrax short is "Drugs are Like That" and Cinematic Titanic (I love the "new" riffing of Santa Claus Conquers the Martians).
Thanks to Rob for answering our questions!
If you're interested in learning more about the book after reading the interview, we've already had a couple of threads about the book here and here. There's also a sample essay online, although it may not be representative of the rest of the book.
How did the idea for the book come about?[/i][/color]
I had the idea for this book ten years ago (shortly after I completed my edited volume Perspectives on the Grateful Dead in 1999). I had approached a number of publishers with the concept of an edited volume on the show, but they told me there was not much interest. Then in 2002 I tried to put together a scholarly panel on the show for the Southwestern/Texas Popular Culture Association. That, too, generated little interest and while the panel was well attended at the time, only one person came to present. So it was something that I always wanted to do.
It seemed like this was the right time, so I asked my Texas Tech Library colleague Metadata librarian Shelley Barba to help, and we made a good team for this project. The publisher McFarland is always nice to work with.
Why does MST3K seem worthy of this kind of scholarship?[/i][/color]
Well, the whole culture of riffing has exploded since MST3K went off the air. On the internet you can find websites with numerous alternative commentaries, youtube fan iRiffs, and folks like Josh Way and Incognito Cinema Warriors have their own fans and DVDS for sale. But even before that, with fan made MST3K tributes (Ryan Johnson comes to mind) the show struck a cord with a certain audience that has grown and grown over the years. MSTies were some of the first to embrace online culture in a big way and continue to do so.
Besides, you know it is only a matter of time before someone starts teaching a college or university course on the show. The whole textual poaching concept and culture of riffing is too tempting for some professor to pass up. I don't think it is a question of if someone will teach a course on the show, but when. Perhaps someone is already incorporating MST3K into their courses. I'm sure it is already happening.
The fact is that the show changed the way we watch movies, at least for a segment of the population, and that is worthy of study in itself.
So much of the riffing comes from all aspects of popular culture/literature/music/history. That is fascinating for folks to study and debate.
As I've said before, it is great time to be a fan of the show with all the wonderful DVD releases from Shout, RiffTrax and Cinematic Titanic. We have the best of all possible worlds.
People continue to discover the show through the Internet/Live Gigs/DVDS etc., and new fans continue to "jump on."
Kevin and Mary Jo wrote a forward and afterward for your book. How did the Brains react when they found out they were the subject of "academic criticism"?[/i][/color]
As you can tell from the foreword/afterword they don't really see why make such a big deal about everything. I think they find most of this puzzling. Nevertheless I hope they also appreciate the fact that MST3K really did change the world in its "own small way" to quote Harold and Maude.
Let's face it (at the risk of sounding too fanboyish) MST3K/RiffTrax/Cinematic Titanic are masters at what they do. They bring a sense of fun into the riffing which can't really be topped. I am very grateful to Kevin and Mary Jo for their participation (and for Kevin's willingness to be interviewed about making of Blood Hook as well as the music writer/sound editor Tom Naunas. Both those interviews give new insights into the making of the pre-MST3K film Blood Hook which MSTies know Jim Mallon directed).
They are probably scratching their head.
How did you get Rick Sloane's piece? Did you contact him directly?[/i][/color]
Michelle Brittany and her beau Nick put me in touch with Sloane. I contacted him to see if he wanted to write something. I thought it would be great if one of the filmmakers whose film was riffed would be willing to contribute. Lots of folks like that essay and think it provides a nice balance between the "fun" and really "academic" sides of the book.
A large number of the essays focus on the community of MST3K, both in terms of the audience experience and in the various types of "fandom" that has grown up around it. Why do you think MST3K inspires these kinds of relationships?[/i][/color]
Hey, there is nothing like watching MST3K and its offshoots with an audience or with friends. There is something about the show that inspires passion among the fans. MST3K is so intelligent!
Some people on our board have said that "thinking too much" about their entertainment kills it for them. I gather you don't agree, but how do you respond to that idea?[/i][/color]
Keep in mind that our hearts were in the right place as fans and lovers of the show. We've been criticized for not being academic enough and for being way too academic. There are folks who are not going to like the volume and those who love it. You can't please everyone. But considering there are similar volumes on shows like Buffy, Star Trek, the X-Files, South Park and so many other programs, we just wanted to provide a forum for folks to publish their ideas and scholarship on the show (even if we didn't always agree with the authors).
We don't want to "kill it" for anyone. We realize it is "just a show." But what we have done is not much different than some of those obsessive fan websites (that have folks who know far more than I do about show) where every riff is annotated, every concept discussed, etc.
What were you expecting (if anything) in terms of how the subjects of race and feminism would be dealt with, if at all? Did you reject, edit, or specifically request any essays on those subjects?[/i][/color]
We had no idea whether those subjects would be dealt with. Our call for papers was pretty broad, so I'm glad we had the Gypsy piece (and the Cambot one for that matter). We ended up not using at least half of the pieces submitted (most of which were very good) because we were limited. We couldn't produce a 500 page tome. So for those who submitted and didn't get in, keep plugging away because there is room for lots more scholarship out there.
There's an interesting chapter about the educational shorts and how they can be used to extract a kind of history and cultural study of the times when they were made. Did you ever think of doing a study of the movies themselves and how they can illuminate the times they were made in? [/i][/color]
Movies, like comics, books etc., are windows into cultural history. The shorts are no exception. I think there is a little of that in the volume from some of the essays that discuss specific films (for example, Blood Hook was a product of the 1980s and it shows: the annoying teenagers, the hook welding maniac). I recently watched Lost Boys and while still a great vampire movie, the bad hair of the actors reminds viewers of the decade of the mullet the 1980s.
Movies are a form of history and done in the spirit of the times. Fans love the shorts because there is so much to make fun of now (that may have not been funny in the times they were made). It is great that RiffTrax does all those shorts. I hope Cinematic Titanic will consider doing a short or two someday.
A running theme of many of the essays is that there's something subversive or even political about watching MST3K, even if it's just the notion that the show helps us not be passive media consumers. And yet, even with the worst movies the fans seem to develop a genuine love for the films instead of treating them like an overbearing pop culture that has to be resisted or fought against. Would you say that the contributions generally present MST3K as full-on "subversive" satire, or is it more a part of the culture it mocks?[/i][/color]
I do think it's a form of subversion. The whole "textual poaching" concept (Henry Jenkins) and creating something new out of something "old" is highly subversive in its own way. Look at filmmakers like Ken Jacobs, Jay Rosenblatt, or Craig Baldwin who use "found" footage to create a new kind of film art.
MSTK created a new kind of art and really "broke" unstated rules by talking back to the screen. I know there are historical precedents to riffing (as pointed out in several of the essays in the volume), but it really took the cast of MST3K/RiffTrax and Cinematic Titanic to make riffing its own unique art form.
And, yes, I am fan of B-Z movies and many of the films MST3K did I could watch without the riffing and enjoy them, but the riffing makes the experience all the more potent (because many of them are just plain bad Manos comes to mind and yet the history of Manos is a fascinating one indeed).
Were you surprised by anything in the essay submissions? Were there crazy essay ideas or people taking it far too seriously, etc.? Did anything particularly interesting not make the cut?[/i][/color]
Yeah, there was one piece that was way too theoretical for us as were editing. I can't remember much about the article as it was last summer when we went through the original submissions. But I remember thinking that it was just too much theory.
We had another very good piece on Overdrawn at the Memory Bank as well. Shelley and I went through the pieces and knew that we had to cut at least half of the submissions we received. But we did state that submission did not necessarily mean final publication. We had no idea there would be so many.
I think the fact that so many people want to write an essay with their views on the show and the culture of riffing is a testament to the power of the show 12 years after it went off the air. But the culture of riffing is so huge now (and Joel, Mary Jo, Frank, Mike, Bill, Kevin, J. Elvis, Trace are still at the top of their game). I hope they continue what they are doing for another twenty years or more.
Ok, I know I'm being a fanboy again.
Which essay do you think most MSTies will find particularly surprising or perhaps even disagreeable?[/i][/color]
Some folks have found the whole book to be disagreeable, some love it. We, of course, want the general fans and academics to like the book. There is some good historical material and discussion in there. But you don't have to agree with it all.
The Rick Sloane piece has received the most conversation. I think the historical pieces on riffing would be of interest to most fans, as well as the section on the shorts. The specific films section and the fandom section are unique in their coverage.
How does this book relate to your other work on pop culture?[/i][/color]
Well, I do work on comics, librarianship, film, popular music. It's really all over the board from Batman and the Grateful Dead to the Holocaust in comics, Marvel Comics, to transgressive cinema, and James Bond. Again, some people like what I do and others don't. So MST3K fits right in there. And really I am just a fan of the show and the people who make it.
How has your other work been received? Are there different reactions inside academia from general readers?[/i][/color]
Again some people like it some don't: My Captain America and Grateful Dead books have been criticized for being "too academic" as well (or not academic enough).
For the transgressive cinema books, my co-editor and I wanted articles from both academics and journalists. We wanted to show that both sides have their place in the study of film (but oftentimes the journalists won't talk to the academics and vice versa, so the book itself is transgressive in that way).
Speaking of transgressive cinema, one other topic that didn't get directly addressed in the collection, but which seems relevant to MST, would be the process by which mainstream films become b-movies, such as what happens when a low-budget movie rips off a high-budget one (or, even more interestingly, when a low-budget movie actually precedes a high-budget one with a similar premise, which also happens sometimes).[/i][/color]
Yeah that is very interesting topic. Look at all the "spoofs" and rip offs of other films. How many aliens-among-us films are there? Someone could have certainly addressed this issue. Hollywood and filmmakers, whether making B-Movies, A-Prestige films or blockbusters, always copy what has come before (especially in genres like horror/sc-fi). Look at Contamination which is just an Italian "rip-off" of Alien which itself is a lot like It: the Terror From Beyond Space. I like all three films.
You know, Italian producers would often ask "What is your film like," meaning what popular film can we rip off but make it different enough so no lawsuits. Everything is always being recycled.
The difference with MSTK3 is that they are creating something new out of something older.
You mention that your favorite short is "What to Do on a Date," and that you've shown it to every "significant other" in your life. How did that pan out?[/i][/color]
Well, I am currently single! HA! (Unfortunately, I might add). Still nothing beats that short. I've shown them my favorite episode Final Justice, too, and "Case of Spring Fever."
Other favorites include Santa Claus, Mitchell, Wild Woman of Wongo and Killers from Space (Film Crew), Prince of Space, Invasion of the Neptune Men, Catalina Caper Amazing Colossal Man, Crawling Hand, Phase IV, Eegah, MST3K: The Movie and of course my first episode Magic Voyage of Sinbad. (Everything is good, but these episodes are some of my personal favs).
Also my favorite RiffTrax short is "Drugs are Like That" and Cinematic Titanic (I love the "new" riffing of Santa Claus Conquers the Martians).
Thanks to Rob for answering our questions!
