I can't believe it's been 13 years since...

[brandonakaxerxes]

... MST3K aired it's last episode "Diabolik".

I remember being upset it was ending, because I was JUST getting into MST3K at the time, and then news of the show ending comes up.

"Diabolik" still feels like a strange film to end on, but my understanding is, like "A Case of Spring Fever", it was something they'd been wanting to riff for a long time, but they never could quite snag the rights until then.

I wish The Brains had given some kind of write-up for the Nanites and Magic Voice. Like maybe have Mike mention that they joined ConGypsCo or something.

[mrsphyllistorgo]

Thirteen years?!? That can't be right!

*Looks at calendar*

*Gets promptly drunk*

[oldmanmerton]

I still think there's really not much way they could have improved their series finale. It was as close to perfect as you can get. So far the only A+ I've given on my site (though I've barely touched the meat of any of the seasons besides KTMA).

So glad the show didn't end with the kinda "eh" 2001 spoof from 706, even though I like that episode a lot in general.

[Afgncaap5]

Yeah. I'd rate it as a good ending, especially considering the circumstances. Diabolik was an odd movie, to be sure... it might've felt more 'right' if they'd done something with rocketships and cheaply designed robots... but in a weird way it felt okay for them to conclude with something unusual.

[angilasman]

It's a decent episode riffing-wise, but the host segments are just pitch-perfect finale material, so I wouldn't want it different in any way.

[Torgo]

I think the riffing is far better than many give it credit for. I think its a laugh riot.

But you know what would have been an awesome as a final movie? The Green Slime. That would have been a great wink to the fans.

[Mike Flugennock]

When I first started getting reaquainted about a year ago, I re-read the Episode Guide along with the SciFi Channel addendum online, and it suddenly dawned on me that it'd been 12 years (at the time) since they were cancelled, and I thought "holy crap! I knew it'd been a while since I'd seen any MST3k, but was their final season really 1999? Eee-yoiks, man!"

I forget where I saw it, but I recently read an interview with Nelson where he says that he and the Crew would have been glad to keep doing MST3K as long as SciFi would keep renewing it. I guess they are, in a way, with The Film Crew, and now RiffTrax.

Thankfully, there's the Shout Factory DVDs, all those downloads from RapidShare, the torrents via the MST3K Digital Archive Project, and all those really nice rips I've been able to suck down from YouTube to help me go back and watch all my favorite epiaodes and catch up on the ones I've missed.

Luckily, MST3K had a tape-trading ethic similar to the Grateful Dead, and a bootleg tape-trading network second only to the Dead's own tapers' underground* (I taped shows whenever I could, and traded with other tapers who followed the tour). As I recall, that's how they "went viral" and gained their following back in the KTMA days, and their early Comedy Central seasons.

Thank the FSM all you guys out there Kept Circulating The Tapes!

*Speaking of which... I also can't believe it's been 17 years since Garcia left us -- 17 years ago today. I honored his memory this evening by watching a bootleg video (appropriately enough) of Capitol Theatre 11.24.78, followed by Experiment 603, "The Dead Talk Back."

[frankenforcer]

I still hold that episode as near perfect as well. The movie was a fun, foreign ride with the a young Calgon taking it all away. The riffs were spectacular and the host segments were truly great.
After reading all of the episode guide (especially concerning Season 7), the constrasts of the two Poopie tapes, and the footage from the "Final Dance: Raw"; I think the reason this had a definite conclusion is because the Brains weren't trying to find another home. With season 7, they were actively seeking to keep the show going and they weren't sure if they would so Season 7 ended the way it did where it had the capability of coming back when they found a new home. I could be way off base but I just get the feelings that the writers/performers of the series were ready to stop. I think, even if they had been offered an 11th season, they may have taken it but I don't think they would have gone on much further beyond that.

There is just a sense of fatigue on Poopie Two with everyone and on the Raw tape. You can tell in the Raw tape as Bridget, Jim, and Andrea Ducane try to put some humor, happiness, and bittersweet sadness into it but Kevin, Mike, and Mary Jo just ain't having it.

The more I think on it (and I think on it alot) I think the Movie did far more damage to their morale than they or we may realize. When they got back together a year or so after the end to do the Season 7 episode guide addition for The Satellite News (Thank you Brian and Chris), years after the movie had been filmed and ran they still had bad feelings and venomous words for the treatment they received from Universal. I can still recall one of the Brains talking about not taking your brain child that you love and care about to Hollywood to be "beaten and made fun of" or something along those lines, I'm paraphrasing.

That would explain why there is such a sense of fatigue and on edge tempers on Poopie 2 and I don't think it ever really went away. IT was after the movie that Mike and the Bots got alot meaner when it came to the movies.

I don't know, I'm rambling now and I could be (and probably am) off base.




To end: I loved Diabolik and the last bit before the credits was simply perfect.

[Mike Flugennock]

Aug 8, 2012 14:16:43 GMT -5 oldmanmerton said:

I still think there's really not much way they could have improved their series finale. It was as close to perfect as you can get...

I like how the series "laps itself" in the final host segment of the series finale: safely back on Earth, hanging out at Nelson's apartment, Nelson and the Bots settle down to watch the local late-late horror movie show. Turns out it's The Crawling Eye (from waaaaay back, Experiment 101); on their own, instinctively, even without the coercion of Dr. F. or Mother Forrester, the Bots begin riffing over the opening credits until Crow suddenly stops short and says, "hey, wait a minute -- haven't we seen this movie before?" Fade to black, closing theme. Beautiful!

[continosbuckle]

Aug 22, 2012 13:21:14 GMT -5 frankenforcer said:

That would explain why there is such a sense of fatigue and on edge tempers on Poopie 2 and I don't think it ever really went away. IT was after the movie that Mike and the Bots got alot meaner when it came to the movies.

I don't know. Joel, Frank and Trace all left in each of the previous three seasons and I think that had a big effect on the attitude of the whole group. I don't think it changed so much as they no longer had the influence of those three, so it allowed other sentiments to come to the fore.

If you watch Joel in the short interview on the Crawling Eye DVD, and his contribution to the Ballyhoo doc on the Bride of the Monster DVD, he makes the point that it's important, for someone doing what he did in MST3k, to not be an asshole about it. Keep it light and fun, rather than nasty.

If you've read or seen anything Frank has had to say on the subject, you'll know that he has a great, genuine affection for the movies, shorts and TV shows that comprised MST3k's fodder. He writes in the episode guide that he even liked Starfighters, for God's sake. He states on the Ballyhoo doc for Beast of Yucca Flats that he, alone among the Brains, enjoyed the lyricism of Coleman Francis' movies, whereas the rest of the Brains just associated them with pain.

And if there's any impression I've gotten of Trace in seeing him outside of his Forrestor costume, it's that he's a very nice, mild-mannered, sweet man. He doesn't seem to have a mean bone in his body.

I think the Brains lost a lot of "niceness" when these three guys left the show. Mike and Kevin note, on the video on the Merlin's Shop DVD, that Crow became shorter (in reference to his tolerance levels) and meaner during the SciFi years because that better reflected Bill's personality compared to Trace. I read accompanying material to a number of Rifftrax releases and the contempt from them for the efforts of the filmmakers is often so strong that I wonder if it's intentionally over the top. It just seems to me that the humor of the remaining members, certainly the "main" members of the Brains, became angrier, more jocular and more contemptuous than it was when Joel, Frank and Trace were making major contributions.

And don't get the idea that I'm totally lamenting this, because I loved the SciFi years. It's just that I've had this impression for quite a while, and there's nothing from the Brains' subsequent output that has made me question it.

[oldmanmerton]

Joel would never have written something like Mike's Movie Megacheese. Let's put it that way.

I love him and I love Mike. But that's a good way to see how different they were. I adore the vitriol in MMM. But then I watch Joel say to Jerry Seinfeld in reference to the genocidal scene in Avatar "How 'bout the nice fresh taste of Hell From On High!" and I adore that too.

[brandonakaxerxes]

If you want a good example of how different Trace's Crow and Bill's Crow are, look at the outtake on Poopie I where Mike accidentally breaks Crow's hand off, and the outtake on Poopie II where one of the Observers (Paul Chaplin? I forget.) breaks Crow's hand off, and note that Trace and Bill have very different reactions for Crow.

Trace essentially just has Crow do a funny panic attack ("MY BLOODY HAAAAAAAAAND! ARRGGGGGHHHH!"), which is obviously in good fun.

Bill on the other hand just makes Crow get angry over being broken and has him tell the Observer, "You bastard! YOU BASTARD!"

[frankenforcer]

Those are good points both. It's hard to gauge what the impact behind the scenes the loss of those three actually had. It's just as likely to be the changing of the guard bringing about new attitudes as much as it could be lingering resentment to Universal's treatment of them during production and in distributing the film to theaters. Heck, could be a little of both as well.

I always liked Bill's angrier Crow, generally because I find anger amusing and because I thought it fit in with Crow's story of being alone for 600 years or so.

The fatigue comments from me come from the (perceived) attitudes of Mike and Trace being very different. Mike seems to have more tension in 2 than he did in 1. You have to admit that Trace is a complete 180 in regards to demeanor in 2 from 1. He doesn't get angry or mean, but I sense a real feeling of being tired and seeming like he just doesn't want to be there (whihc of course makes sense considering). When you take into account that poopie 1 has season 6 and 2 has season 7 and there's barely a year between the two and the movie being the only other thing that occured in that space along with the caustic comments from the Brains even 7 years after the film had been made, it just seems to explain the sudden change in Trace. Best example is in Poopie 2 when they're filming Pearl being sick, when they cut it's hard to watch him, he just seems unhappy.

Again I could be way off base and it could be down to just missing Joel and Frank.